Search Warrent

[suitechic1979]

Pennsylvania

Do the police have to show you a search warrant when they want to take your stuff?

I was recently pulled over for not stopping at a stop sign, and because I had some friends in backseat who were under 18, the cops put me in a holding cell, and took my laptop computer, telling me I was a pedophile and they were going to search my computer for any type of proof. I didn't say they could, but they kept asking if they would find anything... my only answer was, "NO"

It's been almost 24 hours, and I haven't seen a copy of a search warrant, nor have I heard anything back yet.

Do the police HAVE to show me a search warrant, or should I go back to the police station and get my laptop?

 

[tranquility]

No, they probably did not seize the computer based on a search warrant, so they would not need to show one. The search on the computer may require a warrant, unless you consented.

You clearly not telling all the facts so it is impossible to give answers without making up an outline. See an attorney. You may have many issues to argue as some things seem odd.

 

[CdwJava]

Yeah, there's something missing here. You don't naturally move from a traffic stop to an accusation of child molestation simply because three minors are in the back of the car.

There's more to this story.

Consult local counsel.

- Carl

 

[suitechic1979]

picked up friend 1, Brittany. picked up uncle. went to parade.

picked up friend 2, Beth. was dropping off uncle, when I didn't stop at a stop sign (did a rolling stop... not complete stoppage.)

Officer pulled over. Was driving under suspended license. Uncle was free to go, 2 friends who are UNDER 18 were questioned by the cops without a parent or lawyer present. Brittany mentioned that we had talked online because they asked why there were 2 laptops in the car.

Officers then proceeded to search my car, front seat, glove compartment, backseat, trunk. They also pulled papers out of an envelope that dealt with my girlfriends recently passed grandfathers estate (bank statements and such).

I was taken to City Hall (where the police station is), and detained and strip searched. I was in a holding cell while both girls were interrogated with out parent or legal counsel.

after 3 to 3 1/2 hours later, I was released with no charges filed. they kept both computers, and my Nintendo DS (apparently they wanted to play Mario Kart, or Pokemon that bad!)

I have yet to see a search warrant. I went up today, spoke with the Captain who told me I would never see it again unless the DA told him to give it back.

I've tried filing a complaint, but keep getting sent back to the same Captain who has hung up on me repeatedly now.

If you need any more details, please just ask.

 

[CdwJava]

when I didn't stop at a stop sign (did a rolling stop... not complete stoppage.)

Okay, so the stop was with good cause.

Was driving under suspended license.

Oops! THAT gave them the right to search the car AND the contents. A vehicle being impounded is subject to inventory prior to impound. However, it is very questionable whether that alone can justify a search of the contents of the computer, though an argument might be made to justify that.

Uncle was free to go, 2 friends who are UNDER 18 were questioned by the cops without a parent or lawyer present.

Not necessary - they were not under arrest, so Miranda does not apply, and anyone can talk to anyone else without a lawyer or parent - this includes the police.

Brittany mentioned that we had talked online because they asked why there were 2 laptops in the car.

No biggie unless there is a big difference in ages ... uh, just how old were the kids, and how old are you? If you are thirty-something and the kids are not related to you and in their teens, I can see how the cops would get suspicious!

Officers then proceeded to search my car, front seat, glove compartment, backseat, trunk. They also pulled papers out of an envelope that dealt with my girlfriends recently passed grandfathers estate (bank statements and such).

Anything inside a vehicle subject to impound is fair game if "searched" pursuant to a written or unwritten practice or policy concerning vehicle impounds. There may have been some other cause, but that is the easiest one to articulate here so far (given what you have provided).

I was taken to City Hall (where the police station is), and detained and strip searched. I was in a holding cell while both girls were interrogated with out parent or legal counsel.

People being held in custody are often "strip searched". However, there may have been some other reason to strip search you. Since I am not from PA I do not know what the current status of the law is on a strip search. In any event, even if improper or unlawful, that is a separate matter from the charges you face.

Again, the juveniles didn't NEED an attorney or parent. If they said anything incriminating (incriminating to THEM, not to you), then their parents can hire attorneys for the children.

I have yet to see a search warrant. I went up today, spoke with the Captain who told me I would never see it again unless the DA told him to give it back.

If the DA does not want to file charges, he or she can write a letter permitting the release of the property. What the police do not want to do is release potential evidence and then have the DA come back and suddenly decide they want to file charges after all!

So, the DA or a court will have to allow the return of the property.

I still suspect there is something more here as nothing you have said here would - on its face - indicate pedophilia to me ... there must be something that you have not mentioned, or something that the you or the children said that piqued their curiosity.

I've tried filing a complaint, but keep getting sent back to the same Captain who has hung up on me repeatedly now.

Try the Chief.

Besides, what are you complaining about? From what you have written, it is very possible that the police acted appropriately. Besides, you were told how to get your stuff back - talk to the DA's office.

If you need any more details, please just ask.

Okay, ages of all the involved parties, please. And how long have you known these juvenile "friends"?

- Carl

 

[tranquility]

Carl wrote:

Oops! THAT gave them the right to search the car AND the contents. A vehicle being impounded is subject to inventory prior to impound. However, it is very questionable whether that alone can justify a search of the contents of the computer, though an argument might be made to justify that.

If it was a search incident to arrest, we would need to look further. If it was an inventory search, what justification would there be for looking at the computers data?

I haven't done a case law search of the 4th or Virgina, but I bet they need a warrant (or consent) to look at the data on the seized computer if it was a search incident to arrest or seized on probable cause.

 

[CdwJava]

If it was a search incident to arrest, we would need to look further. If it was an inventory search, what justification would there be for looking at the computers data?

There probably wouldn't be. However, since the USSC decision allows a search of all containers and their contents one MIGHT be able to argue that this includes the contents of the laptop. I wouldn't want to make that argument in CA, but it might be made, and it may be perfectly acceptable in the OP's state.

Of course, I also see an argument for consent either implied or directly given. ... "There ain't nothing incriminating on here is there? Mind if we take a look?"

But, that's a matter for a court to decide IF he is ever tried for anything.

Personally, I think there is more to this than meets the eye ... I can't imagine they would just seize and start searching the contents of computers because there were minors in the back seat of the car.



- Carl

 

[tranquility]

I think any cop who pulled over a car under these circumstances who didn't have his HMMM...-detector redline, needs to get out of the donut shop and read the newspaper once in a while.

The HMMM...-detector is that visceral reaction a person with common sense has which brings the eyebrows together and tightens the lips when he sees something that makes him go HMMM...

Good cops will then use their training and knowledge of the law's edges to stay just on the right side of good and evil. Bad cops will do whatever they want to get to the bottom of this fecal material.

I'm not sure what kind of cops the OP had as he simply cannot accurately provide the relevant information regarding the police's justifications or of all the material facts. I agree with Carl that, unless the officers involved had some special sensitivity to the conditions for some past reason, there is more here than meets the eye.

 

[suitechic1979]

I'm 26, the girls were 14 and the other turns 16 in less than a week. I've known them for almost a year now, and have met their parents.

As for their questioning, why wouldn't they need a parent or legal counsel present? They are underage. And the only thing said to "incriminate" me was that we had talked online before. This isn't the first time I've ever met them, like I said, I've known them for almost a year, and have their home phone numbers, met their parents, and what not...

As for the computers, I've gotten everything but them back... the car, wallet, and what not. Why they would need to keep a video game system, I don't know.

 

[Just Blue]

I'm 26, the girls were 14 and the other turns 16 in less than a week. I've known them for almost a year now, and have met their parents.

As for their questioning, why wouldn't they need a parent or legal counsel present? They are underage. And the only thing said to "incriminate" me was that we had talked online before. This isn't the first time I've ever met them, like I said, I've known them for almost a year, and have their home phone numbers, met their parents, and what not...

As for the computers, I've gotten everything but them back... the car, wallet, and what not. Why they would need to keep a video game system, I don't know.

Well!! This explains it all!! Why on earth are you friends with 14 and 15 year old girls?? How did you meet them? Can't you see how the police would be very suspicious of this?

 

[suitechic1979]

I was introduced to one of them through a friend, and they are friends. Why would the police be suspicious? It is not like they were bound and gagged or injured. Do you ever drive your siblings around? Do you suspect every man with young children in a car? They could have easily have been a sister/s. Our society has changed so much that you can't do anything nice for anyone without there being a motive. A random act of kindness can be of no good anymore. I was trying to be a big brother and a positive role model, not a boyfriend. Yes, there are disgusting pigs out there, but I am not one.

 

[CdwJava]

I think any cop who pulled over a car under these circumstances who didn't have his HMMM...-detector redline, needs to get out of the donut shop and read the newspaper once in a while.

If they were all teens, no, it really wouldn't make much of an impact at all unless the girls did not even know the driver or said something to lead the officer(s) to believe this was fishy.

But, there is certainly more than meets the eye.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

I'm 26, the girls were 14 and the other turns 16 in less than a week. I've known them for almost a year now, and have met their parents.

Okay ... More, meet Eye.

THIS would trip most any cop's stink-meter.

As for their questioning, why wouldn't they need a parent or legal counsel present?

Because they are not under arrest, and no state I know of requires that a parent or attorney be present when a witness or victim is being questioned.

Besides, even if you state were to have some strange law like that, it is THEIR PARENTS' issue to raise, not yours.

They are underage. And the only thing said to "incriminate" me was that we had talked online before. This isn't the first time I've ever met them, like I said, I've known them for almost a year, and have their home phone numbers, met their parents, and what not...

No matter how you cut it, a man 10-12 years older than a group of teenage girls he is hanging with is going to raise eyebrows. As Tranq previously wrote, a cop is going to have his "HMMM detector redline".

As for the computers, I've gotten everything but them back... the car, wallet, and what not. Why they would need to keep a video game system, I don't know.

Probably because they are waiting for word from the DA as to whether there is any crime he can or will prosecute for.

Call the DA and ask for the release to be sent to the police.

- Carl

 

[outonbail]

Another factor that may play into this situation, is what time was it when this all took place? What time was it when the police pulled you over with two underage girls in your vehicle?

Was it dinner time or bar closing time?

 

[suitechic1979]

There were 2 teens, me, and my uncle. He could have easily been their father, and I their brother.

Only AFTER the one said we talk online did they seem interested in the computers. So if anyone of you talks to friends online who are under 18, are you pedafiles? My wife has a friend who lives in Brazil who she has been talking to when he was 15 til the present. They shared a common interest and that is what they talked about. They talked about Japanese music. Is she a pedafile for this?

It was 12 noon that this happened.