Security guard's rights - California

[one_and_only]

What is the name of your state? California

Hello,

I was wondering what a private security guard (not peace officer and non-armed) can and cannot do.

1) Can a security guard detain you (through use of handcuffs or blocking your way) for non-misdemeanor/felony offenses (e.g. "speeding" in a parking lot; not excessively, approximately by 5-10 miles)?

2) Can a security guard request, or more importantly, force you to show him your Driver's License/ID card? If one refuses to do so, what can the security guard do?

3) What can the security guard do if a driver does not heed to his call to "stop" and "come here" and just keeps driving out of the area slowly?

4) Considering the above question, would an actual police officer persue the driver if told by the security guard?

5) On that same note, is it required that the police officer actually see the "offense" in progress, or can the security guard simply tell the officer that he "saw" someone speeding (how would the Police Officer fine without knowing the actual speed)?

6) Can a security guard interrogate such a driver, and what can he do if the driver refuses to answer questions?

7) Can a security guard impose a fine on said driver for committing such an act? Can a security guard impose a fine for any act?

The reason for these questions is because my friends were recently harassed by a security guard for driving about 5 miles over the speed limit on a store's parking lot (driving 10 miles an hour, logged on their car's datalogger) by a security guard. He hit their window with his hand (did not do damage) to stop them and yelled stop (did not yell or say anything prior to hitting the window), then ordered the driver to show his driver's license or he would "handcuff him" and turn him over to the police. He finally let them go after half and hour of interrogation causing them to be late to a meeting. We are now debating each other if the guard's actions were legal or not.

I would greatly appreciate your responses and if possible, I'd also greatly appreciate any references to specific laws (e.g. Penal Code) in support. I appreciate ethical opinions, but I am looking at this from a legal perspective. Please take the given facts as being "complete" and true. Thank you for your time,

-concerned_one

 

[CdwJava]

1) Can a security guard detain you (through use of handcuffs or blocking your way) for non-misdemeanor/felony offenses (e.g. "speeding" in a parking lot; not excessively, approximately by 5-10 miles)?

Yes. Well, in theory he can just as any other private person can. Keep in mind that an infraction is still a crime. But, since one cannot "speed" in a parking lot (as an infraction) but they CAN be "reckless" in a parking lot (s misdemeanor - even at 10 MPH) the crime would be a misdemeanor.

2) Can a security guard request, or more importantly, force you to show him your Driver's License/ID card? If one refuses to do so, what can the security guard do?

He cannot FORCE you, but he can certainly ask. And if you fail to show it to him he can certainly try to effect a citizen's arrest for a crime committed in his presence if there is one.

3) What can the security guard do if a driver does not heed to his call to "stop" and "come here" and just keeps driving out of the area slowly?

He can call the police and report a crime if one has occurred.

4) Considering the above question, would an actual police officer persue the driver if told by the security guard?

It depends on what the guard said. If the guard said the driver almost hit someone, or in some other way articulated the elements of reckless driving in a parking lot, yes - the officer would (or should) pursue the matter.

5) On that same note, is it required that the police officer actually see the "offense" in progress, or can the security guard simply tell the officer that he "saw" someone speeding (how would the Police Officer fine without knowing the actual speed)?

The officer can make a detention and an arrest based upon the private person's spoken or written intent to place the suspect under citizen's arrest. If no one is willing to place the suspect under citizen's arrest, tyhen the officer can't do a whole lot but forward all the statements to the D.A.

6) Can a security guard interrogate such a driver, and what can he do if the driver refuses to answer questions?

He can ask anything he wants. The driver doesn't have to answer ... but, he could find himself under a citizen's arrest of the security guard thinks a crime has been committed.

7) Can a security guard impose a fine on said driver for committing such an act? Can a security guard impose a fine for any act?

He can try to issue a citation, but it will be an entirely civil matter between the property owner and the person to whom the citation was issued.

He finally let them go after half and hour of interrogation causing them to be late to a meeting. We are now debating each other if the guard's actions were legal or not.

He can ask anything he wants. You would not be breaking the law to ignore him ... but you could find yourself subject to "reasonable" force should he choose to effect a detention for a crime comitted in his presence.

However, the CA courts are a little fuzzy on the issue of force when it comes to private person's arrests ... there are cases that say force cannot be used and others that say reasonable force is appropriate. So, it's hard to say if he could legally snatch you and cuff you while waiting for the cops.

I would greatly appreciate your responses and if possible, I'd also greatly appreciate any references to specific laws (e.g. Penal Code) in support. I appreciate ethical opinions, but I am looking at this from a legal perspective. Please take the given facts as being "complete" and true.

PC 837:

837. A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

Also check PC 847 and PC 849 here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90

- Carl

 

[one_and_only]

He can try to issue a citation, but it will be an entirely civil matter between the property owner and the person to whom the citation was issued.

Apologies for stemming into this topic within the same thread, but how would this work? As far as I thought I knew, the CA Law does not allow private organizations to issue monetary citationhe to individuals breaking the said organization's regulations (CCRs?). Now that I think of it however, one often sees security guards writing out parking tickets for those without a parking permit in my college. What are the restrictions of such fees (if any) and how does one determine if such a 'citation' issued by a security guard is valid and legally enforceable (besides going to court)?

Much of it seems to boil down to the following, "If the security guard makes no apparent intent to make a citizen's arrest, one can legally simply ignore what he says/yells and drive away (disregarding the fact that he may report the actual infraction - not my behavior thereafter)." Is this statement correct?

He cannot FORCE you, but he can certainly ask. And if you fail to show it to him he can certainly try to effect a citizen's arrest for a crime committed in his presence if there is one.

So, essentially, one does not have a legal obligation to present a driver license to a security guard upon his request (compared to a police officer, for whom one is legally obliged to show identification if so requested). Do I understand this correctly?

He can ask anything he wants. You would not be breaking the law to ignore him ... but you could find yourself subject to "reasonable" force should he choose to effect a detention for a crime comitted in his presence.

Thanks. I think I am starting to understand why the courts are a bit shady on this (or anything that has to do with citizen's arrest, in general).

CA PC 836.6 (b)
(b) It is unlawful for any person who has been lawfully arrested
by any peace officer and who knows, or by the exercise of reasonable
care should have known, that he or she has been so arrested, to
thereafter escape or attempt to escape from that peace officer.

CA PC 843
When the arrest is being made by an officer under the
authority of a warrant, after information of the intention to make
the arrest, if the person to be arrested either flees or forcibly
resists, the officer may use all necessary means to effect the
arrest.

CA PC 835
An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person, or by
submission to the custody of an officer. The person arrested may be
subjected to such restraint as is reasonable for his arrest and
detention.


The first two only seem to apply to peace officers, not security guards/private citizens. Virtually nothing is mentioned in regards to escape from a citizen's arrest except the latter mentioned (835) and the limits are very ambiguous indeed.

Thank you for your time and citation of the Penal Code,

-one_and_only

 

[CdwJava]

As far as I thought I knew, the CA Law does not allow private organizations to issue monetary citationhe to individuals breaking the said organization's regulations (CCRs?).

Like I said - they can ask ...

Now that I think of it however, one often sees security guards writing out parking tickets for those without a parking permit in my college. What are the restrictions of such fees (if any) and how does one determine if such a 'citation' issued by a security guard is valid and legally enforceable (besides going to court)?

I private entity is not generally going to be able to enforce the payment of the citation ,,, they CAN, however, try to take the matter to civil court or forbid the vehicle entry in the future.

If it is a government entity such as a school, or even a private college, chances are the parking citations are going to have some force of law. If you are truly in doubt, call them and ask.

Much of it seems to boil down to the following, "If the security guard makes no apparent intent to make a citizen's arrest, one can legally simply ignore what he says/yells and drive away (disregarding the fact that he may report the actual infraction - not my behavior thereafter)." Is this statement correct?

More or less.

There is no legal requirement to yield to a security guard or any other private party.

So, essentially, one does not have a legal obligation to present a driver license to a security guard upon his request (compared to a police officer, for whom one is legally obliged to show identification if so requested). Do I understand this correctly?

Correct, you are not obligated to present ID to a security guard.

Thanks. I think I am starting to understand why the courts are a bit shady on this (or anything that has to do with citizen's arrest, in general).

No, they're really not that shady. The only real gray area is the issue of force when making a citizen's arrest.

The first two only seem to apply to peace officers, not security guards/private citizens. Virtually nothing is mentioned in regards to escape from a citizen's arrest except the latter mentioned (835) and the limits are very ambiguous indeed.

That's correct - it is not a crime to escape a private person's arrest. However, if force is used in the flight one could be charged with greater crimes.

And before you start fronting off the security guard for trying to slow you down, maybe you ought to consider just slowing it down in the parking lot. If you don't think getting tagged by a car at 10 MPH is no big deal, try taking a run into a wall head first.


- Carl

 

[one_and_only]

I highly appreciate your response. They have effectively answered all of my questions.

And before you start fronting off the security guard for trying to slow you down, maybe you ought to consider just slowing it down in the parking lot. If you don't think getting tagged by a car at 10 MPH is no big deal, try taking a run into a wall head first.

I understand that this might sound suspicious, but I have no intention of ever doing this (heck, if I am ever in this kind of situation, I'll probably just apologize my way out). In fact, I have sincere doubts that my friends will ever go back to that place. It is simply that we were debating this issue with each other for a very long time, while being completely clueless of the actual law involved (argumentum ad ignorantiam, if you will). That said, I've certainly learned a lot from this.

Thank you for your helpfulness,

-one_and_only

 

[outonbail]

It may also be wise to keep in mind that there are sworn police officers who moonlight for security companies now and then.

 

[CdwJava]

It may also be wise to keep in mind that there are sworn police officers who moonlight for security companies now and then.

But when they work in that capacity they are expected to be as security guards. To suddenly turn into a cop for the small stuff is to open up one's employer (both security and law enforcement) to potential suit. This is why many agencies discourage or even prohibit their officers from doing security work.

- Carl

 

[gawm]

But when they work in that capacity they are expected to be as security guards. To suddenly turn into a cop for the small stuff is to open up one's employer (both security and law enforcement) to potential suit. This is why many agencies discourage or even prohibit their officers from doing security work.

- Carl

I was under the impression, at least here in Arizona, they are always on duty. That's why so many places here hire them. They were going to put limits on how many hours of o.t. one can work as a security guard, in fact I think one city did.

 

[CdwJava]

I was under the impression, at least here in Arizona, they are always on duty. That's why so many places here hire them. They were going to put limits on how many hours of o.t. one can work as a security guard, in fact I think one city did.

We are.

However, this results in lawsuits against both the agency and the employer of the officer as a guard ... hence, when we work as security officers we are often told that we will "observe and report" only. However, if the security guard/officer sees a felony occur in his presence he will almost certainly be obligated to act as a peace officer ... other crimes will not necessarily result in his having to act as a cop.

My previous employer initially said no one could work security ... after the union went to bat the city said officers had to have the employer and assignment type approved, could not use city equipment, and could not work IN the city ... the city also requested the officer not have his city PD badge and ID card on him at all, but the Chief nixed that because he realized that there might be times when these might be needed.

My current agency does not allow us to work security. But, as far as I know, nobody has ever asked the Chief to re-consider the policy.

- Carl