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msamourian

Guest
What is the name of your state? Illinois

I am not sure what category to post this in or even if it is important enough but any advice would be appreciated. the issue has to do with neighbor relations and police inactivity.

i live in a very small community and have had many minor issues with one of my neighbors. dogs barking all day unattended, garbage blowing into my yard, old furniture and other debris piled up and attracting animals, uncut grass, etc.. i have tried from the beginning to simply talk to them about the annoyances but get nothing but threats and hostility. i asked a local policeman how i can get my issues resolved and he suggested i simply call the police non-emergency number and let them deal with it. i have done this over the past years and have learned that the corporal of our department dates my neighbor. lateley other police have come to my door looking for kids throwing objects at cars and the same night i observed the neighbor kids hiding from the police. a few days later my wife observed them shooting paintball guns at passing cars. the investigating officer was the boyfriend and he believed the kids when they said they were doing nothing wrong. i photographed the street littered with hundreds of paintballs and was amazed the officer didnt even look around the street to see all of the overwhelming evident the kids were shooting at cars. my question is this: should i try to escalate this to the officers superior or should i just keep quiet and let the kids eventually do something they cant get out of? i have seen their behavior steadily worsen and i am concurned what may come next. suggestions?
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
msamourian said:
What is the name of your state? Illinois

I am not sure what category to post this in or even if it is important enough but any advice would be appreciated. the issue has to do with neighbor relations and police inactivity.

i live in a very small community and have had many minor issues with one of my neighbors. dogs barking all day unattended, garbage blowing into my yard, old furniture and other debris piled up and attracting animals, uncut grass, etc.. i have tried from the beginning to simply talk to them about the annoyances but get nothing but threats and hostility. i asked a local policeman how i can get my issues resolved and he suggested i simply call the police non-emergency number and let them deal with it. i have done this over the past years and have learned that the corporal of our department dates my neighbor. lateley other police have come to my door looking for kids throwing objects at cars and the same night i observed the neighbor kids hiding from the police. a few days later my wife observed them shooting paintball guns at passing cars. the investigating officer was the boyfriend and he believed the kids when they said they were doing nothing wrong. i photographed the street littered with hundreds of paintballs and was amazed the officer didnt even look around the street to see all of the overwhelming evident the kids were shooting at cars. my question is this: should i try to escalate this to the officers superior or should i just keep quiet and let the kids eventually do something they cant get out of? i have seen their behavior steadily worsen and i am concurned what may come next. suggestions?
**A: keep calling and if you can't get any help ask for the beat sargeant.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
If your wife observed the activity, maybe she needs to call the police and report it when its happening. If the kids deny they did it, and there is no evidence to say they did (and spent paintballs may not be evidence that THEY did it), then there may reeally not be a whole lot the officer can do. If your wife - or you (if you witness the act) - go on record as reporting it, this is a different story.

And what would you go to the corporal's superior about? Saying that he did not arrest some kids when he should have? And is there even a crime in your locale for this? I suppose it would at least be littering.

I'm not sure what you'd report yet. Just keep making the reports of criminal activity.

Carl
 

dequeendistress

Senior Member
Well let me see what offenses you can report.

simply talk to them about the annoyances but get nothing but threats
1. Depending on what you consider a threat and the legal defintion of a threat, this is one.

my wife observed them shooting paintball guns at passing cars
1. This would be an offense which is actionable, yet your wife would have to be willing to testify as to what she witnessed in a court of law.
Also this testimony would need to be more than "I saw them shooting paintballs, but something to the effect of I saw them shooting at a vehicle and evidence of such, such as the owner of the vehicle which was shot or shot at and evidence of the act upon the vehicle.

But if you continue to call police for childish complaints, you may see an officer at your door in the future advising you to cease and decist.

Personally I do not like to read the "to serve and protect" lingo in situations like these. Yes it is true, a great mission statement, but you know there are some real criminals out there.
 
M

msamourian

Guest
well, the my wife saw it and so did the cop! the kids said they were only shooting when no cars were coming. this is really a matter of continued escalation of annoyance. last year i had to paint over several spots on my cedar siding that i could not wash off. i have had borken bottles in my yard from a party they had, spraypainted landscaping, and i cant even explain how much garbage. i do not consider this childish behavior at all. i am sure its only a matter of time before major damage is done to my house or automobiles and without direct proof they did it i will have to rely on the local cop to investigate. by the way, after he was off duty after the paintball incident he went to their house, changed clothes, and played ball in the backyard with the boys. pretty intimidating huh?
 

dequeendistress

Senior Member
Not intimidating, at least there is a sworn officer of the law playing with kids next door.

So why don't you just sue them in civil court for damages and leave the criminal investigation out of it.

(Not to mention, that you are alluding that this officer is somehow corrupt, if you feel so strongly file a formal complaint at the law enforcement agency.)
 
M

msamourian

Guest
ok, i get your point. sue for $20.00 dollars of cleaning supplies? all i want is respect for my property and privacy. i will continue to turn a blind eye unless my saftey is at risk. i guess i am in the wrong here. thank you for your input.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
No, you may not be in the wrong, but there are practical limits to what can be done without making a big stand. If you think that what the oifficer did was wrong, unethical, or even criminal, you need to report it to his superiors. But underestand there is no easy answer to the whole thing. Taking a stand can take a lot of courage - particularly in a small community ... and particularly if the police department is very clique oriented.

I live and work in a small town - but we investigate any and all complaints very seriously. But, like any human beings, we tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those that we know, and sometimes we get snookered.

Not being privvy to all the facts, I cannot say whether what you have experienced is wrong or not. I'm a little confused as to what has or has not happened. From the gist of it I gather that you and your wife have seen these kids tagging cars with paintballs, the officer comes out and believes their denials, and no further action is taken. I'm not sure how actionable that might be ... but, depending on the circumstances, it might be. And if there is damage, and if your state has a citizen's arrest statute, I would insist upon that the next time you witness them doing damage! Insist upon a citizen's arrest. At least then they can't just let it go.

Carl
 

dequeendistress

Senior Member
Would you mind citing the circumstances involved for placing one under citizen arrest.

If I came across wrong in my post it was unintended, simply it has been a horrible last seven days, yet I stand behind what I said.

Look, if the persons owning the cars that you claim were shot at have damage then it only makes sense that the owners are filing claims on insurance and filing claims at the police department. I feel strongly there are underlying issues here.

As stated, file a complaint when warranted, officers of the law can not act on "what if" or be privy to information as to what children may or may not do in the future. I strongly caution you to use your common sense in these issues and don't rely on the police to settle minor disagreements you have with your neighbor. You live by one another, do the best you can to get along. (I do not MEAN to ignore illegal acts, ok., am I clear?)
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
dequeendistress said:
Would you mind citing the circumstances involved for placing one under citizen arrest.
I'm not sure if this was directed to me or not, but the way its done out here is that the person making a C/A has to inform the person that they are placing them under citizen's arrest (aka Private Person's Arrest). The person then signs the C/A form provided by the police and the arrested party is turned over to the police who MUST accept the arrest. The police have some discretion as to how to dispose of the arrest (by physical custody - jail or juvenile hall, citation, or release with no further action due to no probable cause or insufficient elements to establish the crime) and will have to forward a report on the incident.

The liability for a false arrest lies solely with the arresting person and not with the police. And it must be done for any crime committed in the presence of the private person or for a felony for which they have probable cause to believe the suspect committed.

Carl
 

dequeendistress

Senior Member
Yes, Sir that was directed to your statement as to placing one under citizen arrest and I was curious as to your feeling as to what classification of crime would constitute a citizen arrest and if this is applicable to juveniles.

You answered my question, thank you.

I would not suggest a C/A as you are opening yourself up to many libel issues. Not to mention perpetuating this ordeal between the neighbors.

But, each of us has our own opinion.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
In CA a citizen's arrest applies to adults and juveniles. And libel is not an issue as long as there is reason to believe a crime has been committed and the person arrested had committed the crime.

If the person observes a juvenile tagging their car with paintballs, he can place him under a citizen's arrest and turn him over to the police. The problem would be in what level of force to use in detaining the suspect. Usually, the compmainant will call us, identify the suspect, and then we will ask him to make the citizen's arrest (if he/she wants to) while we are there.

The only time I have seen it come back to bite someone is when the person makes an allegation that is later proven to be completely false (alleged an assault by a person that was witnessed by numerous persons to be elsewhere at the time of the alleged assault). Otherwise, its not likely to be bad news.

The advantage of the C/A is that it pretty much guarantees that the incident will get filed ... whether any conviction occurs is another matter. But the incident will be documented and reported.

Carl
 

dequeendistress

Senior Member
I am not trying to argue with you but, in this state citizen arrest laws are different, so if it works for your citizens and your department~good work.

But, one point, if there is sufficient reason for citizen arrest why would you advise a citizen to place one in arrest in the presence of a sworn law enforcement officer. Scope for arrest by citizen is much more narrow than that of law enforcement certified personnel.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Obviously C/As work differently in every state. But in CA the powers of arrest for private persons (aka citizens) and for the police are very similar. And here the police cannot generally make an arrest for a misdemeanor NOT committed in their presence.

So, in CA, if I responded to the scene of a vandalism report, and the victims said he saw Johnny Junior hit his car with paintballs, I often have two options: ask him if he wants to place Johnny under citizen's arrest, or, I can write the case up and forward it to the D.A. or Juvenile Probation for prosecution. Usually they seek the latter. But if they wanted immediate consequences for Johnny, they would have to go the C/A route.

But, that's just in CA. Your state may vary.

Carl
 

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