Shoplifting

[Zigner]

Say I want to buy a beer from a barkeep, but he has gone to bed and refuses to get up and serve it to me. I grab a beer and down it anyway and return the next day to pay the barkeep. Theft?

Say I'm driving my horse team down the road and stop to get them some oats from a farmer's field with the intent to pay the farmer. Instead the team gets skittish and I leave without paying. Theft?

Say I unreasonably believed you borrowed my VCR without telling me and I wanted it back. So I go break and enter into your house in the nighttime and take what I unreasonably but actually believed was my VCR (It was actually yours. It wasn't even the right brand.) off your TV. While removing the plug, unbeknownst to me, a spark went into the carpet. After I left, a conflagration occurred, killing you and yours. Theft? Burglary? Felony Murder?

All irrelevant, as we're speaking of retail theft.

 

[tranquility]

All irrelevant, as we're speaking of retail theft.

And, in theory, retail theft allows for what the horn books (the first two examples) might call "intent to return the equivalent" (Model Penal Code, "claim of right".) as affecting the intent required for theft. (i.e. Money for the item rather than the item.) While the third example was one I paraphrased from a multi-state argued over long ago, the first two are directly on point.

Also, reread my first post. I'm not claiming our hypothetical person is innocent, but putting out the legally cognizable argument about how later paying for an item is useful to causing doubt as to the state's burden.

 

[quincy]

You know this how?

All the rules and guidelines as to how to infer intent (Since we don't have a mind reading machine--yet.) are designed to determine what the person intended. In some cases, all that is required is the person conceals the item while in the store. Others have to have the item get past the cash registers without having been paid for. Still others, it requires an exit from the store. It all depends on what a jury would decide the person's intent was. I know one thing for sure, YOU don't know it any more than I do. Especially in a hypothetical question.

Even though it could be argued that kleptomaniacs do not "intend" to steal from a store, they are still charged with theft for the items they take.

 

[Zigner]

And, in theory, retail theft allows for what the horn books might call "intent to return the equivalent" (Model Penal Code, "claim of right".) as affecting the intent required for theft. (i.e. Money for the item rather than the item.) While the third example was one I paraphrased from a multi-state argued over long ago, the first two are directly on point.

Also, reread my first post. I'm not claiming our hypothetical person is innocent, but putting out the legally cognizable argument about how later paying for an item is useful to causing doubt as to the state's burden. (The model

I understand that you're putting it out as a cognizable argument. I disagree that a court (or Jury) will accept it as a valid argument.

 

[tranquility]

Even though it could be argued that kleptomaniacs do not "intend" to steal from a store, they are still charged with theft for the items they take.

I agree. If by disease of the mind the have an irresistible impulse to steal so strong they cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, in theory they cannot form the specific intent required for larceny. It is for the jury to decide as to if they had that level of insanity. I think some states have that option in their jury instructions.

 

[commentator]

For someone who has a little stealing habit, this sort of talk is thrilling. As the whole, take it, rush out, have it cherish it look at it, imagine what you'll do if they catch you, oh my God what would I tell them, what would happen? Will I do it again? Do I dare? What if I just go back in and pay for it now?

I disagree this is homework, I think the OP really wants to know because she is stealing and likes to think about it and talk about it. OP, if this is not homework, talk to a counselor. Now.

 

[stmfitr636]

Also if a customer saw you do this,.. can they still get you in trouble ...?

No. But you can get yourself in trouble for stealing stuff.

I suggest going to the store and asking their manager on duty. Bring the stuff you've stolen so they can ring it up proper.

 

[Zigner]

No. But you can get yourself in trouble for stealing stuff.

I suggest going to the store and asking their manager on duty. Bring the stuff you've stolen so they can ring it up proper.

In other words, our OP should walk in the shop and say "Hey, I stole this from you"...???

The OP would be better served by contacting an attorney.