Slightly more difficult legal questions...(long)

[Exley186]

For those of you who dont read entire posts, i'll do a quickie at the top here. I, at the age of 20, was arrested one morning and charged with an Underage, Public Drunkenness, and Harassment. None of which should have been charged in the first place. My important question lies in the Underage charge. The officer that i made contact with outside of my house had a suspicion that i had been drinking because someone else (across the street) claimed i was. I knew this and made sure i stayed at least 3-4 feet away from him while talking, with very little breath. he asked if i was drinking, i said "no", and he replied with "bull****", walked up, grabbed my arm and took me to the car to breathalize me. Obviously i blew over the legal limit, and i was cuffed. The officer at this point made some small talk with his partner, "lying ****" etc etc, and put me in the cruiser. No miranda rights read, not even telling me why i was being arrested (yes i knew why). What faults here can i attack when i have my trial? (i pleaded not guilty on all three charges).

Now for a more detailed explanation, for those of you who are actually educated in law practices. One evening at my house, my roommate and I held a small party, a total of 8 people. Just a case of beer, having a good time. Half a year ago, our one neighbor complained about the noise because of a much larger party, so we promised it would never happen again, and we've been on more than satisfactory terms since (we are not roudy drinkers, the party wasnt to get drunk). Several women were there and one of them kept getting harassed by some guy she knew in a town 45 minutes away from us. My roommate picked up the phone and pretty much started blurting a whole bunch of nonsense (no harassment, no namecalling, just random noises and such.) The harassing man on the other end wasnt too happy and said he was going to find where we live and kill the girl and my roommate. Unfortunately for me I (used to) invite very unintelligent women to my house. One of the girls told this guy where we lived, AND what street we were on. Sure enough, this guy finds our house, and I go outside to talk some reason into him. He shows up with 4 guys from Allentown (again, 45 minutes away from where i live) saying he's "going to **** (me) up" and "kill that bitch." I started to get annoyed because i did not want to upset my neighbor, and told him to grow up and leave. At this point he gets nuts. He gets out of his car and his minions follow suit. They surround me while he's saying "you think you're big and tough? think you can take me down?" I'm pretty modest, I'm not a big guy, and this guy is three times my body weight (all muscle) and has 3 more bodies surrounding me. For no reason (im serious, im not going to twist this to make me look good) he pushes me down onto the pavement. I get back up and he's in my face yelling, and i simply say "im not going to settle this tonight, i'm simply too tired to deal with children" and went back inside. This irate kid from allentown calls the cops and states that there is underage drinking at my address. The cops show up a little later while everyone is inside, mostly asleep, and im watching them. This next part is bad, and i kick myself in the ass every time i think about it, but I went outside to make a statement. I went out the side door, which is to my driveway, and stayed immediately in front of the door. The officer noticed and approached me. This is where my above paragraph starts. So, same thing, i kept my distance, he breathalized, cuffed and placed me in car, no miranda rights read, not even a statement of what im being arrested for, and i'm taken to the station and placed in a holding cell. Here's the best part. The four kids from allentown came to the station behind the cops to complete their statement. I overheard their conversation from my cell, and the large man said "he pushed me down onto the ground, i got back up and pushed him but not enough to push him down onto the ground." Disgusting, and rediculous considering how much smaller I am than him. Anyway, about an hour and a half later, the officer opens up the door down the hall (i cant see this door, but its easy to hear it) and waits approximately 6 seconds, and then he blasts an AIRHORN... and closes the door. ??? i wasnt sleeping, the camera was pointed right at me so they must have known i wasnt sleeping. finally, after a total of 4+ hours, they release me after signing my charges: Underage, Public Drunkenness, and Harassment.

OK so that's my story, and I have a few somewhat difficult questions. As far as public drunkenness goes, is standing in my doorway next to my driveway public drunkenness? Was it PD when he TOOK me to his car? If I get not guilty on my Underage, is Public Drunkenness automatically thrown out?

As far as my underage goes, Yes he was TOLD that occupants of my address had been drinking, but in my copy of the citation he stated that i "had a powerful smell of alcohol." which i know for a fact that i did not, considering i wasnt wearing a shirt (just a jacket a pulled off the rack), stood my distance from him, and had a slight breeze in my face. If i want to use this for my cause in court, can i say, for example, say that i was drinking but i cant be charged because of the faults in procedure (i.e. No miranda rights read)? and what is that called?

And lastly, what is the best way to approach my Harassment charge?

Thank you very much for your time and ANY helpful feedback will be greatly appreciated, my court date is two weeks from now.

[calatty]

I only read the short version. The police are trained and experienced in recognizing signs of drinking. They will say they noticed your speech was slurred, your eyes were glassy, you were swaying, etc., whether they actually did or not. They were not required to read you Miranda rights because they did not interrogate you and you did not make incriminating statements, and it was clear why you were being arrested. How can you get "not guilty" on being under age? In any case, whether standing next to your driveway is considered being in public in your state is something that would have to be researched.

[Gadfly]

What faults here can i attack when i have my trial?

Well let's see.

Under age drinking, telling a lie, being outside in public while drunk . .. oh, sorry that would be self incrimination. Better not use those. . .

[Happy Trails]

You didn't state the name of your state.

There are numerous posts regarding this issue (drinking and miranda). You could try using the search option in this forum.

[Exley186]

Originally Posted by Happy Trails

You didn't state the name of your state.

There are numerous posts regarding this issue (drinking and miranda). You could try using the search option in this forum.

I did search, and after i posted i also researched more about miranda rights. All the threads i found on drinking were rediculous, and i dont have any questions on drinking laws. If you can read, my question was what did the officers do wrong, if anything.

Originally Posted by Gadfly

Well let's see.

Under age drinking, telling a lie, being outside in public while drunk . .. oh, sorry that would be self incrimination. Better not use those. .

**claps** congradulations, you've helped me find my "Ignore" button. I'm looking for advice, not elementary cynicism. This is the first time I've ever gotten arrested, and the first time i've ever even gotten in trouble with the law. I'd rather not get a record for something that i beleive was unprecedented. Dont have the mental capacity to analyze law situations? Dont post, because noone wants children on Law forums.

[ENASNI]

Originally Posted by Exley186

Dont post, because noone wants children on Law forums.

Then leave.

No one needs this attitude either.

Sheesh.

And you have Happy Trails here, she helps out a lot.

[Zigner]

OP should ask these questions of his lawyer. Obviously, he thought this was the "Answers I Want to Hear" forum.

[Happy Trails]

Originally Posted by Exley186

I did search, and after i posted i also researched more about miranda rights. All the threads i found on drinking were rediculous, and i dont have any questions on drinking laws. If you can read, my question was what did the officers do wrong, if anything.

I can read. It is you that has a problem doing that. This forum requires that you name your state. See up top, "US Law Only - WHEN POSTING A QUESTION, YOU MUST INCLUDE THE NAME OF YOUR STATE".


Have a nice day.

[Exley186]

Name of State: Pennsylvania. Happy trails: Dont know why you're upset but my comment was not to aggrevate you. especially since you're the only one that's giving any useful information, and more would be appreciated.

[Kane]

You need to find out how serious the charges are.

You didn't say what state you're in, but (usually) underage drinking and public intoxication are fine-only offenses, meaning the worst that can happen is you can be assessed a fine. I have no idea about the harassment charge.

If all three are fine-only offenses, you can handle them yourself. If any of them includes jail as a possible sanction, you need a lawyer.

In order to convict you of an offense, the state has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you committed every element of the crime. Alternatively, if you plead guilty, or no contest, they can convict you based on your plea alone.

As far as public drunkenness goes, is standing in my doorway next to my driveway public drunkenness?

It depends on your state. In my state it would not be. In yours, it might.

If i want to use this for my cause in court, can i say, for example, say that i was drinking but i cant be charged because of the faults in procedure (i.e. No miranda rights read)? and what is that called?

If you testify you were drinking, that will hurt your case. It is one of elements in two of the charges against you, and it will make you look bad in the third charge as well.

I'd advise against doing that.

Miranda has no application in your case, since it applies only to custodial interrogations. It does not apply to the smell of your breath.

[Happy Trails]

Originally Posted by Exley186

Name of State: Pennsylvania. Happy trails: Dont know why you're upset but my comment was not to aggrevate you. especially since you're the only one that's giving any useful information, and more would be appreciated.

You didn't upset me. The state information is necessary because laws vary state to state.

The Miranda rights only apply if a person is in custody and he/she is going to be subjected to interrogation. (As Calatty and Kane stated above.)

The Miranda rights do not protect you from being arrested, only from incriminating yourself during questioning. All police need to legally arrest a person is "probable cause" (which is an adequate reason based on facts and events to believe the person has committed a crime). Which the police had in this case.

Police are allowed to ask routine questions like name, address, DOB, and SS# (information that is necessary in establishing a person's identity).

Police can also administer alcohol and drug tests without warning, but a person being tested may refuse to answer questions during the test/s.

So you see not having your Miranda rights read to you does not help your case.

Now for the charges.

From Penssylvania statutes:

PUBLIC DRUNKENNESS
18 Pa.C.S.A. § 5505

A person is guilty of a summary offense if he appears in any public place manifestly under the influence of alcohol to the degree that he may endanger himself or other persons or property, or annoy persons in his vicinity.

Punishable by a fine up to $300 and/or up to 90 days in jail.

**I have a problem with this charge, being that you were on private property. Commonwealth v. Meyer, 431 A.2d 287 (Pa. Super. 1981), and Commonwealth v. Coon, 695 A.2d 794 (Pa. Super 1997) distinguishes whether the "public" elements of an offense are met when the act was performed on private property.

However, how did you behave after the officer had you in custody and you were on public grounds?

-------------------

PURCHASE, CONSUMPTION, POSSESSION OR TRANSPORTATION OF LIQUOR OR MALT OR BREWED BEVERAGES BY A MINOR
18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6308

A person commits a summary offense if he/she, being less than 21 years of age, attempts to purchase, purchases, consumes, possesses or knowingly and intentionally transports any liquor or malt or brewed beverages.

Punishable by a fine up to $300 and/or up to 90 days in jail and loss of license for 90 days.

**This one, they got you.

-------------------

Without knowing the statute code for the harassment charge, I can not be specific. There are several different harassment violations.

-------------------

IMO, you need an attorney. I don't think you stand a chance to get all of these charges dismissed. Possibly you can get some dropped if you plead guilty to one. Consult with a lawyer for the best possible outcome.

The prosecutor may even offer a plea agreement to keep it from going to trial.

[justalayman]

Police are allowed to ask routine questions like name, address, DOB, and SS# (information that is necessary in establishing a person's identity).

Happy Trails, are you reffering to a person being arrested or merely being questioned?

If it is the first I can go along with you, if you meant the second situation, research last sessions SCOTUS decisions.

[Exley186]

Thank you Kane and Happy Trails for your information

Originally Posted by Happy Trails

Police can also administer alcohol and drug tests without warning, but a person being tested may refuse to answer questions during the test/s.

Dont officers need probable cause before administering such tests?

What i was actually planning on doing, in order to increase my chances of everything getting dropped, was to first ask for continuance. This would afford another chance of the officer not showing up. If he does show up the next time i would subpoena the man who claims i harassed him, and the second officer that was at the scene (if he wasnt already at court). If the second officer doesnt show up, would that be cause to have the case dropped?

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by Exley186

Thank you Kane and Happy Trails for your information



Dont officers need probable cause before administering such tests?

What i was actually planning on doing, in order to increase my chances of everything getting dropped, was to first ask for continuance. This would afford another chance of the officer not showing up. If he does show up the next time i would subpoena the man who claims i harassed him, and the second officer that was at the scene (if he wasnt already at court). If the second officer doesnt show up, would that be cause to have the case dropped?

You are toast, get a criminal defense attorney if you want to fight it.

[weenor]

Originally Posted by Exley186

Thank you Kane and Happy Trails for your information



Dont officers need probable cause before administering such tests?

What i was actually planning on doing, in order to increase my chances of everything getting dropped, was to first ask for continuance. This would afford another chance of the officer not showing up. If he does show up the next time i would subpoena the man who claims i harassed him, and the second officer that was at the scene (if he wasnt already at court). If the second officer doesnt show up, would that be cause to have the case dropped?

Judges do not have to grant continuances...you must give them a reason..while this is often not difficult for attorneys (as the judges understand their schedule) it may not be so easy for you..especially if the judge sees through your little ploy...