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Theft By Deception????? NIGHTMARE!!!!

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Puritan-ky

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Kentucky

Im gonna start from the beggining and explain everything so be warned this will be a long post! But im at a lost and need help.

May 2005 I was working full time at a cabinet factory, normal joe trying hard to make ends meet. I also did alot of carpentry work on the side for extra money. I was known as the nieghborhood furniture maker. ( Ive worked with wood since I was 14 now 22 even went to college for Commercial Cabinetry) Like many red blooded americans I was sick of living paycheck to paycheck and always facing financial hardship. I often looked for a niche to help set me free. Towards the end of May I was facing the hardest finincial times of my life. House payment just went up....roomate moved out. I was surfing Ebay (been a member since 03) Looking for something I could make and sell. I tried many things with out any success..... One day I saw people selling bedroom furniture. Something Ive made alot of. The designs people were selling were things I knew I could make. So I posted some pictures but honestly didnt expect anyting to sell. after 6 days of a 7day auction nothing had sold. I went to work to put in my 16hours on the nightshift. I came home and checked my email to my surprise I had actually sold 6 beds! I quickly built and freight shipped the purchases. It was this point that set me on a path of what I thought was great success. Within a month I was able to quit my full time job and was making a great living selling,building, and shipping furniture from my home shop.

Quickly my business escalated and was easily grossing 10k -20k month in sales.... I had moved from just beds to bedroom suites....nighttables, dressers, and armoires I had a steady 4 week waitlist full of orders. Honestly my customers were happy and were happy. I never recieved complaints except on the waiting period (4 weeks) but when people did receive their purchase they were ecited with the quality and price. Financially this was a dream come true, a dream soon to turn nightmare.

Because of the volume of shipping I knew I had to reduce freight costs and streamline my shipping. So I contacted several freight companies to compare rates and set up a dedicated shipping account. I decided on Fedex Frieght. Which I thought was wonderful. At this point I had hired help, and a freight truck that autmatically came to make pickups everyday! My business was wide open shipping 15-20 orders a week.

Within the first 2 weeks with fedex freight 24 orders were completely damaged. We are talking damages adding to well over $10,000. But the problem is by time I had known that there was a major shipping problem with fedex...nearly $20,000 worth of furniture had been completely ruined. A months work down the drain. I tried to file claims but the process was very slow. In the end Fedex determined the damages were my fault because we didnt put "Fragile DO NOT STACK" stickers on the crates.

This led compaints through Ebay, Negative feedback ect..... Not to mention everyone who had already purchased furniture is gonna have to wait even longer because now we would have to replace the damages. a 4 week waitlist quickly turned to 8-10weeks as I tried to sift through the mess. In an effort to fix complaints and restitute damages I would issue refunds to those who were really unhappy with the long wait list or damages. Which was bad but was okay because business was still doing well and money was still flowing in.

Because of the constant complaints through ebay due to the wait (Which I cant blame anyone who wants to wait 2 months for a purchase???) Ebay suspends my account because of supected fraud???? After months of praise and positive feedback ebay takes away my only market without ever contacting to find out whats going on??? So now business was stopped......no money coming at all and no way to sustain the losses already inquired. To make matters worse my paypal account is then frozen and I am locked out of it. (Thousands of dollars for furniture purchased) I contact paypal and they tell me my account is frozen because their investigation team is investigating me for fraud??? I had a verified account with 200+++ transactions.

Paypal then proceeds to REVERSE every refund I have issued to any of my customers. Then tells my customer that the transaction was issued with UNAUTHORIZED FUNDS and continued to explain to the customers with instructions on how to turn me into the FBI for internet fraud???

This led to MASS PANIC among my customers who are still waiting for there furniture to be constructed and shipped. Which led to Chargebacks, and Reversals. Within 5 days EVERYTHING WAS LOST!!! I then had countless customers waiting for furniture and no way to construct it or get it to them.

I was locked out of my EBAY PRO Business account, with limited access to my paypal account. I tracked all orders through ebay and paypal, so now I had no way of knowing who bought what, how much they paid, or even if they have filed a chargeback and already been refunded. So I contacted paypal for help. I explained the situation and explained my need for my account statements so I could fill pending orders (or at least try to) They extended their emphathy and explained they would help everyway they could. I never heard from them again and they would no longer take my calls.


continued.....
 
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Puritan-ky

Junior Member
So I start sifting through hundreds of old emails trying to figure out who bought what. Started contacting customers letting them know the situation and that I had planned to fill everyones order.

Needless to say this was extremely difficult, I had shipped the pending orders I could with funds a scraped togather. I then started to sell furniture that I had already constructed locally for pennies on the dollar to try and gain some sort of foot hold to get business back on its feet. I was able to issue some refunds, and ship several more orders to those still waiting but things just became more difficult and seemingly impossible.


A couple more months go by and Im no more better off then I was. I this point I was dawned with a brilliant idea. If i couldnt sell on Ebay somone else could.... I set off to locate a local dealer. I found an ebay store owner in KY who agreed to sell my items for a set commision. This worked well and it finally seemed things were turning around for the better...with the money coming I was able to afford to fill more pending orders of people that had already waited months and months and months.... I was able to then afford a real store front hear locally with twice as much room as I ever had from home which would enable me to build faster then ever. So I rented the shop... little time passes and my dealer dissappears..... No answer to my calls or emails, honestly I dont know if he is even alive? But at that point it was okay...because of the new store front and local exposer, I was getting orders for High END custom kitchen cabinets..... Really starting to get back on my feet.....looking forward to the future and being able to make whole all the poor people that were effected by this mess.

3 months later (current time) Im working at the shop and the sheriff serves me a summons which described in detail a woman in Louisville that had purchased a bedroom set that I didnt deliver. I was to appear in jefferson county(150 miles away) in 5 days. Honestly I thought I was being sued. Alot of writing on the summons was chicken scratch and abbreviated. I didnt think much of it. I had a Cabinet job just days from completeion that would pay out more then enough money to pay this woman back. I called jefferson county to file for a continueince. I did this for a couple reasons, one 5 days notice is not a whole lot of notice expecially with the job I was working on needing to get done, secondly I figured if the court date was continued a couple days it would give me plenty of time to get the job done and pay this woman back. I call the office back 2 days later as instructed by the clerk office. The woman on the phone told me the continueince was approved. So now I prepare to go to court on the new date, I call a couple of days ahead to confirm my court room and get driving directions. It was then I was told that in fact my continueince was NOT approved and I had to get to jeferson county in person ASAP to reschedule my court date. So two days later I set off to J county and reschedule my court date to June 19th and have a receipt to prove so. Its at this time I learn that im not being sued, im being charged with a felony!!!!!


I proceed home and go about my business.... 4 days later Im woke up out of bed monday morning. Sheriff explains he has an arrest warrant for FTA. I showed him my receipt showing the rescheduled court date and explained to him what had happened and that the clerk in J county said it was taken care of. He called it in to verify the warrant. He explained the warrant was in fact valid and he must take me in. Before booking me in the sheriff investigates my receipt and explains it was really ODD because J county faxed the warrant the day after I rescheduled it, but he had to book me anyways.

At this point Im placed in a 6x6 brick holding cell with no bars or windows, or even any toilet paper!!! I asked for a phone call and lawayer over and over and over but was repeatedly DENIED. Im made aware my charges are "Theft By Deception over $300 and Theft by failure to make required disposition over 300" Im also told that my BOND is 4000 CASH ONLY and the judge denied lowering it. I was told that J county would be coming to get me that night to transport me to their county. Jefferson never came, I was left in this holding cell for 2 days!!!! with out a phone call or attorney after I requested both and I didnt have any toilet paper!!!!! Heck I wasnt even read my RIGHTS!

After 2 days im given an orange jumpsuit and placed in gen pop, because Jeffereson still has not come to get me. For the first time in 2 days I have access to a phone, managed to get 10 seconds of call out to my mother before the collect phone system cut me off. Finally after 56 hours I get through and my family,and friends are worried sick because Nobody knew where I WAS!!

Im in Jail 3 days when im told that Jefferson county wont be coming to get me until that following Monday.

I have no money and no way to get bailed out, and a business to run with clients im sure are freaking out because I dissapeared for 3 days! Now it looks like im gonna be forced to sit in jail OVER A WEEK!!!!

Keep in mind Ive been in jail 3 days with No toilet paper, Tooth brush, soap, shower.....and now I HAVE NO UNDERWEAR!!!!! (It wasnt white so I had to remove it)

I get in contact with my Brother in Michigan to see if we cant get togather this bond money. My brother maxed out 2 credit cards and used his vacation savings to western union money to my mother and get me bonded out. (Warning conspiracy theory) At this point Allen county (where i was currently held) is notified by my brother that I will be bonded out the following day at 10am. Now into thursday, im awakened at 9:45 am, Jefferson county has convienently decided to transport me 15 min before my mother arrives with the bond money!!!!!! After they already notified Allen county they wouldnt pick me up for several more days ya.....their not out to make it hard on me are they?????


So my mother drives the 150 miles to Louisville to bond me out.....Finally after 8 more hours I am released.

The following Tuesday (yesterday) we appear in court expecting an arraingment on the charges having to do with this one woman . While sitting in court im pulled out by a detective who tells me that I need to get an attorney because apparently Paypal is out $14,000 and they are pushing some kind of charges and all the people that were caught up in this mess that had ordered furniture and never got it along with the refunds paypal confiscated from those customers. At this point I go back into the court room scared to death!!! I now have no idea what my charges are or what kind of mess I am in. Im then pulled out by the prosecuter who asked me if I understood my charges. I told him "No I do not" He wouldnt explain to me, he asked if I have an attorney I told him "No I cannot afford one and need a public defender" At that point Im told to go back to the court room. Im called up by the judge who asks if I understand my charges, I said "No I do not" She didnt bother explaining them to me either!!!!!!! She then tells me my motion for a public defender is denied because if I can afford a $4000 bond I can afford an attorney.
My court date was then moved to July 6th

Finally after hours on the phone today I find out my charges are

Theft by unlawful taking, prop over 300
Theft by failure to make required disposition including cold checks, prop over 300


I cannot afford an attorney and I am very scared and do not know what to do!!!!! Please can somone help me with some advice or shed some kind of light on this for me? Is it possible to appeal the judges pd decision????

Thank you for any help at all and I am very sorry for such a long long post!

Puritan-Ky
 
S

shell007

Guest
This is the first time I've ever seen a thread so long that it was continued to page 2.

OP: Please shorten your post. This is way tooo looooong to try and sift through.

You'll get better responses that way. :)
 

xxuanxx

Junior Member
You could have simply said that you were an EBay merchant whos shipments were damaged by FedEx, this has lead to your EBay store being suspended because you fell behind on your deliveries. Compliants because of this also affected your PayPal account which was eventually suspended. But you are back on yor feet now ... and working hard to be responsible ...

Ok, so you are capable, but fell beind on fulfilling orders .... do you have the email address of the woman who filed the charges? can you refund her her money or give her what she wants and settle out of court? I am sure she just want her cabinets or money back, not your @ss in jail, right?

Anyway, expect this to drag until every unsatisfied client takes his shot at you. Consult with a lawyer .... he/she can advise you of measure acceptable to the court, which would assure your clients that they will get their cabinets or money back ... whatever they choose. Tell them that it will take 6 months to send the money, but 3 months to send the cabinets.

Tell the judge that if you are jailed that you will loose your business and never be able to refund your customers .... a good judge will give you probation so you can pull yourself out of this ....
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Telling a judge you can’t pay back these people if he puts you in jail will result in the judge stating something along the lines of the following:
That’s OK son. You’ll only be there for a year and since I know how bad you want to get these folks their money back, I’ve made arrangements to ensure that any money you make working in the prison laundry will be applied to your victim restitution account You will be provided with 5 percent for your own expenses.
Then of course, after your released, you will seek gainful employment and continue to pay into this account until every penny you have received, is returned. Should you fail to pay the victims back within a reasonable amount of time following your release, you will be in violation of your probation and back in jail again. So I don’t believe you’ll have any trouble coming up with the money.
Bailiff, please take Mr. Businessman here into custody.”

Your case is a complex situation involving many victims, customers, an on line auction company and financial organizations. Add to that the fact that your crimes have been carried out in many different states and jurisdictions. This makes it nearly impossible for anyone on this forum to be in a position to provide effective advice on all that will be involved in your case.

But I’ll comment on a few hurdles you’ll be facing along the way. One of which will be gathering up all the discovery information that will be used against you at trial. This is why you will need a good attorney who can request everything on your behalf. You will also need to gather up any and all business records you may have kept on the business transactions you made and try to put them in some sort of understandable order.
Then you will need an accountant to decipher all this information and see if he/she can come up with some sort of an accounting that can be compared with the records Ebay and PayPal will be presenting as evidence. This accountant will need to be one who will appear in court and testify at trial on your behalf. This should narrow down the number of accountants you’ll have to choose from I’m sure.

Basically, this mess would have come down to an accounting, which could have probably been done out of court and as a joint effort between yourself, Ebay and PayPal. Could have, but not any longer.

Your biggest hurdle was created when you came up with the bright idea of how you could get around the restrictions placed on you and your business venture, by Ebay and PayPal. Having gone out of your way to locate a third party who was willing to conduct your business transactions per your instruction, is where you really started digging yourself into a hole and where you crossed the line of what was a civil matter, to becoming a criminal matter.
So now, rather than working something out with Ebay and PayPal to rectify the situation, which would have shown good faith and support the sincerity of your claimed intentions to pay everyone back, your actions have instead convinced everyone that your questionable business practices were deliberate and planned out acts of deceit. What you’ve done by getting this third party involved to continue using Ebay and PayPal, is indicative of someone who is defrauding people intentionally.
You’ve tried to spin this story in a way that makes you appear victimized, by Fed Ex, Ebay and PayPal. But this distribution of blame in every direction but yourself, will never fly in a courtroom. You should also know that when you state that now, you can’t locate this third party who was offering your product/services over Ebay’s website, you open the door to the possibility that it was actually you yourself who was doing this, under a fictitious name and contact information, or possibly a friend or relative who was helping you to get around the restrictions which were placed on you. This was my first thought and you should consider that it will be shared by others hearing your story.

This whole mess may have indeed been created due to the fact that your simply a terrible businessman. There is no doubt that even if your a talented craftsman and cabinetmaker, without the business sense and accounting abilities necessary to do the required check and balances of your business affairs, you are doomed to fail.

If there were customers literally beating a path to your door to purchase your product, which is what your post suggests, this has me question whether you were selling this furniture for enough money to cover the expense of manufacturing it. You may have been robbing Peter to pay Paul until this all caught up with you and you were not robbing enough from Peter to pay Paul. (Or in this case, PayPal)

If your trying to represent that you were a legitimate business that just fell into unexpected financial troubles no matter the reason, do you have anything to back up this setting?
Did you file for a tax payer ID # for the business? Obtain a business license and more importantly, a sellers permit from the board of equalization? Did you pay and/or file quarterly tax reports?

From your post, it doesn’t sound like you did any of these things, which will make it all the more difficult to prove you were starting a business rather than building a scam up to separate people from their money.

You should also know that when the judge refused to provide you with a court appointed lawyer, he/she probably took more into account than just the fact that you could come up with bail money. The fact that you were a business owner and PayPal is claiming to be out $14,000.00 and many other customers are out money as well probably played a part in the decision. Where do you believe the judge would think all this money went? To YOU is the answer that comes to my mind.

Start looking for an attorney, your going to need one if you want to stay out of jail!
 

Puritan-ky

Junior Member
Thank you for all of your informative input.

Contrary to your belief I was running a legal business, have all appropriate business licenses and permits and did file quarterly reports. Yes I do have an EIN and Resale number. (all of which were obtained months before I ever sold anything on ebay) Yes I did even file taxes at the end of the year. As of 2-1-06 my business was orginized under LLC. After which is when a dealer had resold my items so even if the prosecuter wanted to use that against me I do not believe they could because at that point the LLC was selling the items not me. I also have proof of refunds issued from the proceeds of those sales to previouse victoms.

I also have all appropriate business records which include Shipping receipts, Damage Receipts, Hundreds of pictures of items as they are being manufactured,finished,packaged and shipped. Pictures of damages, Material reciepts (Thousands of dollars worth) as well as Bank Statements both Personal and Business accounts. I also have Profit and loss statements, furniture breakdowns which show in detail total manufacturing cost (including labor) and profit margins for each piece sold.

Keep in mind I contacted both Ebay and Paypal way before things have came this far to try and work something out. If you have ever tried to communicate with either entity you would know why that did not work.

The business was not at a loss because somone was stealing from bob to pay peter, business was at a loss because thousands of dollars worth of merchandise were damaged and before having a chance to recover from those losses business was halted.

One problem led to another not much different from a snowball turning to an avalanche.


Thank you again for all of your help!

Puritan-ky
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Puritan-ky said:
Thank you for all of your informative input.

Contrary to your belief I was running a legal business, have all appropriate business licenses and permits and did file quarterly reports. Yes I do have an EIN and Resale number. (all of which were obtained months before I ever sold anything on ebay)
This is not the impression I got from your original post since you stated, the following:
"One day I saw people selling bedroom furniture. Something Ive made alot of. The designs people were selling were things I knew I could make. So I posted some pictures but honestly didnt expect anyting to sell. after 6 days of a 7day auction nothing had sold. I went to work to put in my 16hours on the nightshift. I came home and checked my email to my surprise I had actually sold 6 beds! I quickly built and freight shipped the purchases. It was this point that set me on a path of what I thought was great success. Within a month I was able to quit my full time job and was making a great living selling,building, and shipping furniture from my home shop."
But if you did in fact have the business established prior to doing business on Ebay, this should play out to your benefit. The prosecution is going to have to prove intent and the more proof you have to substantiate the fact that you and your business were a legitimate entity, on paper and through the company records, the tougher it will be to prove you knowingly or intentionally broke the law.

But this doesn't explain why they would file charges for cold checks, how did that come about?.

I also have all appropriate business records which include Shipping receipts, Damage Receipts, Hundreds of pictures of items as they are being manufactured,finished,packaged and shipped. Pictures of damages, Material reciepts (Thousands of dollars worth) as well as Bank Statements both Personal and Business accounts. I also have Profit and loss statements, furniture breakdowns which show in detail total manufacturing cost (including labor) and profit margins for each piece sold.
Great, now get all this information together and organized on spread sheets so an accountant can review this information

Keep in mind I contacted both Ebay and Paypal way before things have came this far to try and work something out. If you have ever tried to communicate with either entity you would know why that did not work.
Well, I believe that Ebay and PayPal like to use the leverage that comes with the potential of going to jail and having a criminal record hanging over your head when they settle these matters. They figure if they can get you in a position where they have a good hold of your jewels, they have the upper hand in dictating the terms of any settlement and reconciliation. It is also a fact that many dishonest people use Ebay as their path to criminal activity. There are many horror stories posted here on the boards of people who have lost thousands to scam artists and con men advertising on Ebay. Hence, Ebay isn't very tolerant or understanding when they believe they are dealing with someone who is using their service to break the law and steal or defraud their members.

The business was not at a loss because somone was stealing from bob to pay peter, business was at a loss because thousands of dollars worth of merchandise were damaged and before having a chance to recover from those losses business was halted.
This is probably the very reason that most of the sellers on Ebay state that the buyer is responsible for making shipping arrangements and that any damage caused during shipping is not their responsibility but that of the freight company providing the shipping

One problem led to another not much different from a snowball turning to an avalanche.
Snow also melts whenever it gets hot, liquidating itself until the point of evaporation.
 

Puritan-ky

Junior Member
I have no idea what the "Cold Check" charge is. I believe its where paypal had reversed my previouse refunds to customers and then calling them "UNAUTHORIZED" But I have yet to be explained exactly what this cold check charge is.


-Puritan-ky
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Puritan-ky said:
I have no idea what the "Cold Check" charge is. I believe its where paypal had reversed my previouse refunds to customers and then calling them "UNAUTHORIZED" But I have yet to be explained exactly what this cold check charge is.


-Puritan-ky
A cold check is when you write a check against an account, which does not have the funds in the account to cover the check at the time it is written. For example, you need to purchase materials on Wednesday for a job which a customer is coming to pick up on Thursday. Since the customer is paying cash for the order on Thursday, you write a check counting on receiving the funds from the customer on Thursday so you can deposit those funds into your account to cover the check, predicting that it will not hit your bank until after you have deposited the funds to cover it.

This is often called floating a check or "kiting". While many people do this thinking it is an acceptable practice (especially if the timing does work as planned and the check is paid by the bank) it is illegal and can easily get out of hand.

This is what I was referring to when I said you were robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If you did operate like this at all, it will be easy to prove through your bank records by comparing the dates on your checks and the dates on your vendors invoices and comparing the amount you wrote the check for against your balance at the time you wrote the check. If your balancewas less than the amount on the check, it is legally considered a cold check even if it was paid when it arrived at your bank.
 

Puritan-ky

Junior Member
Well I understand, what a "Cold Check " is , I still do not know where they are getting this charge from.

I have never been big on writing checks, of course I have wrriten them. Im sure that at one point in time I may have even bounced one (who hasnt) But honestly until a few months ago I havnt even purchased a check book for my checking accounts, I would always use Debit/Check Cards. It wasnt until I recently noticed some "Fishy" activity on my account that I had my bank cancel it and open a new one. A new account in which I dont even have an ATM card for.

Even when I issued refunds it was with Paypal, or Cashier Checks.


Good luck trying to get anyone on their end to explain "exactly" what it is I supposedly did to bring on this "Cold Check" charge.


Honestly the more I think about it the more I think this isnt even real. Maybe somone is just pulling some sort of scare tactic ploy?

Im thrown in jail and not one person ever read me my miranda rights. Im denied a phone call and legal counsel. In court, not one person ever explained my charges to me after I had requested so several times. Wasnt until I spent an hour on the phone could I even get anyone to tell me what they were. Supposedly Paypal is helping bring these charges against me, but yet just yesterday I received a letter from paypal stateing if they do not hear from me within 10 days they are reffering the debt to a collection agency and my credit could be negatively impacted.


Everything just seems "off" maybe a far fetched conspiracy theory, but who doesnt enjoy a good conspiracy ;)


How do I file a discovery of information so that I can see what evidence the prosecution thinks they have?
 
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outonbail

Senior Member
Your Miranda rights only come into play if the police who arrested you, question you about the crime your charges with. If you were not questioned or interrogated by the police after your arrest, there is no reason or law which requires them to read you your Miranda rights.

I hardly believe the DA has time to play games or become involved in a conspiracy against you.

Do you believe that most lawyers can build furniture as well as you can? Do you believe you can practice law as well as most attorneys? Your bringing up the fact that your Miranda rights were not read to you, tells me you know very little about the law.

Requesting discovery is only the tip of the ice berg, You really need to retain a lawyer!
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Puritan-ky said:
Well seeing as the last Attorney I called wanted $15,000 up front, that wont be happening anytime soon!
Keep shopping. Call your local bar association and ask for a referral. You should be able to at least get a free one time consultation or for a minimal charge anyway. Then you can get a better idea what you may be in for.
An attorney will usually handle most of the initial filing of paperwork and discovery requests for a reasonable fee, it is when they have to start appearing in court, if the case goes to trial that the big money comes into play. Im sure you can find one who will take monthly payments for their services, at least until it comes time to do battle in the court room.
If your so sure that you haven't intentionally done anything wrong and that all this has snowballed because of circumstances you didn't create and which were beyond your control, it should never actually get to trial. But if the DA sees your trying to defend yourself, there is no reason for them to believe they will lose in court, which translates to no motivation for settling or dismissing criminal charges based on the merits of the case.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
The answer is that you will need a lawyer. You should have had one the moment you were served the papers. They would have told you how to handle continuance or appearance that would have avoided you being locked up as a fugitive.

I'm only slightly surprised by the high retainer. This is a felony and there's going to be a lot of legal work even before the thing gets to trial.
Hopefully a lawyer can challenge the indictment or probable cause in that there was no intent to decieve. You've not actually given the pertinent details on your case (just your personal drama), but I can bet the STATE (and understand at this point it is not "that customer" vs. you at this point, but the Commonwealth of Kentucky vs. you) is going to argue that you took money via ebay for stuff you never intended to deliver.
 
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