Underage drinking illegal search and seizure

[burnevans]

What is the name of your state? Texas

My friend had a party with underage drinking involved. Everyone there was between the ages of 16-19 and everyone had been drinking. The police came and were outside for a couple of hours. We wouldn't let them in and there was no drinking in front of the officers. They went into the backyard where there were beer cans and what not. They might have seen beer cans inside I'm not sure. One of the officers said they saw someone holding a marijuana pipe in the kitchen through the back window. I guess they used this as probable cause because they kicked the front door open and broke it. They never even found a marijuana pipe and noone there knows what they were talking about. I was asleep on the couch when all of this was going on and they woke me up and I started to walk into the kitchen, they asked me where I was going and I told them I didn't know. I was half asleep and there was still a little alcohol in me. They threw me on the ground and handcuffed me and I said a few smart comments because I couldn't figure out what I did wrong. They took me to jail for minor in consumption and they never even tried to breathalyze me or give me a sobriety test. They breathalyzed everyone else and wrote them all tickets, letting them leave with designated drivers. They wrote this one kid a ticket for drug paraphanalia and they never even found a pipe, they "saw it" through the window. I would have thought they would have to have warrant to do this or was this probable cause enough to kick open a locked door?

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by burnevans

What is the name of your state? Texas

My friend had a party with underage drinking involved. Everyone there was between the ages of 16-19 and everyone had been drinking. The police came and were outside for a couple of hours. We wouldn't let them in and there was no drinking in front of the officers. They went into the backyard where there were beer cans and what not. They might have seen beer cans inside I'm not sure. One of the officers said they saw someone holding a marijuana pipe in the kitchen through the back window. I guess they used this as probable cause because they kicked the front door open and broke it. They never even found a marijuana pipe and noone there knows what they were talking about. I was asleep on the couch when all of this was going on and they woke me up and I started to walk into the kitchen, they asked me where I was going and I told them I didn't know. I was half asleep and there was still a little alcohol in me. They threw me on the ground and handcuffed me and I said a few smart comments because I couldn't figure out what I did wrong. They took me to jail for minor in consumption and they never even tried to breathalyze me or give me a sobriety test. They breathalyzed everyone else and wrote them all tickets, letting them leave with designated drivers. They wrote this one kid a ticket for drug paraphanalia and they never even found a pipe, they "saw it" through the window. I would have thought they would have to have warrant to do this or was this probable cause enough to kick open a locked door?

**A: there is a whole lot more to this story and you know it. And you also know that your smart ass comments to the police got you in deep sh*t.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by burnevans

What is the name of your state? Texas

My friend had a party with underage drinking involved. Everyone there was between the ages of 16-19 and everyone had been drinking. The police came and were outside for a couple of hours. We wouldn't let them in and there was no drinking in front of the officers. They went into the backyard where there were beer cans and what not. They might have seen beer cans inside I'm not sure. One of the officers said they saw someone holding a marijuana pipe in the kitchen through the back window. I guess they used this as probable cause because they kicked the front door open and broke it. They never even found a marijuana pipe and noone there knows what they were talking about. I was asleep on the couch when all of this was going on and they woke me up and I started to walk into the kitchen, they asked me where I was going and I told them I didn't know. I was half asleep and there was still a little alcohol in me. They threw me on the ground and handcuffed me and I said a few smart comments because I couldn't figure out what I did wrong. They took me to jail for minor in consumption and they never even tried to breathalyze me or give me a sobriety test. They breathalyzed everyone else and wrote them all tickets, letting them leave with designated drivers. They wrote this one kid a ticket for drug paraphanalia and they never even found a pipe, they "saw it" through the window. I would have thought they would have to have warrant to do this or was this probable cause enough to kick open a locked door?

Q: I would have thought they would have to have warrant to do this or was this probable cause enough to kick open a locked door?

A: Yes, they have probable cause. Since you were passed out on the couch, you do not know the whole story.

[burnevans]

I was awake most of the time the police were there. When I got tired I went to bed. I was asking for legal help, how can they break down a door without a warrant that is bullsh*t. I know the whole story because I have talked to everyone was there and that is the story please don't tell me what I do and don't know. I wouldn't be posing comments unless thats all there was to the story. Have you ever been woken up in the middle of the night, it's a little aggrivating. Besides that is there anyone who can help me? All advice would be much appreciated.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by burnevans

I was awake most of the time the police were there. When I got tired I went to bed. I was asking for legal help, how can they break down a door without a warrant that is bullsh*t. I know the whole story because I have talked to everyone was there and that is the story please don't tell me what I do and don't know. I wouldn't be posing comments unless thats all there was to the story. Have you ever been woken up in the middle of the night, it's a little aggrivating. Besides that is there anyone who can help me? All advice would be much appreciated.

**A: yeah right. The idiots at the party saw the police and the police asked to enter, the party goers REFUSED. The police saw beer cans and unattended minors.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: yeah right. The idiots at the party saw the police and the police asked to enter, the party goers REFUSED. The police saw beer cans and unattended minors.

Yep; there's your probable cause.

[burnevans]

For all you geniuses U have talked to lawyers and cops and it is illegal thats my 4th amendment the probable cause is what you use to get a warrant. They didn't have a warrant which makes it illegal. They had no clue our age or anything. Someone with some legal knowledge please post and testify to this for me.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by burnevans

For all you geniuses U have talked to lawyers and cops and it is illegal thats my 4th amendment the probable cause is what you use to get a warrant. They didn't have a warrant which makes it illegal. They had no clue our age or anything. Someone with some legal knowledge please post and testify to this for me.

Someone with some legal knowledge please post

Gladly.

You are mistaken.

[Curt581]

Don't you just hate it when the cops actually enforce laws?

[Kane]

I would have thought they would have to have warrant to do this or was this probable cause enough to kick open a locked door?

Probable cause alone is not enough. Police need either a warrant OR probable cause PLUS exigent circumstances in order to make a lawful entry into a home.

If this were a more serious offense, I'd certainly want to litigate it. But it sounds like you got busted on a Class C, right?

If so, I assume you're just going to pay the fine.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Kane

Probable cause alone is not enough. Police need either a warrant OR probable cause PLUS exigent circumstances in order to make a lawful entry into a home.

The exigency would be the destruction of evidence.

However, something just doesn't make sense ... NO agency I know of is going to have officers wait "outside for a couple of hours". They are either going to make entry or go away.

Something is missing here. Perhaps the OP's perspective is a little skewed as he was inebriated ... er ... "resting" on the couch.

- Carl

[Kane]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

The exigency would be the destruction of evidence.

I'd argue the couple of hours the police were outside the home would have been enough to have obtained a search warrant.

I agree though, it doesn't sound right. Unless maybe they were trying to get a warrant, and couldn't find a judge.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Kane

I'd argue the couple of hours the police were outside the home would have been enough to have obtained a search warrant.

There may not have been one until they allegedly saw a marijuana pipe being used .. which indicates the presence of dope ... which could indicate a child welfare issue if the occupants appear to be underage.

I agree though, it doesn't sound right. Unless maybe they were trying to get a warrant, and couldn't find a judge.

I think the poster may have some of the facts fuzzy.

- Carl

[hittingrabbit]

Im amazed as to so many people posting in here that are willing to give up their fundemental rights to appease a personal morally objective point of veiw.
First of all I bet if I mentionend what contributing to the delinquency of a minor is,that most of you would say,when you give alchohol to a minor in which is not of the legal age to drink,WRONG!
There is no such law that prohibits alchohol consumption by a minor,but the sell of an alchoholic beverage to a minor is prohibited.
Matter of fact if I wanted to sit around and drink booze with my children their isnt 1 single court that would be able to legally prosecute.
weve heard how a setup often takes place in sting operations,lets say a child is delinquent for stealing and so forth,they are then by punishment required to work with the police to prevent alcoholic sell of beverages to minors,they then enter into certain stores whereas there seems to be probable cause that warranted an investigation,so they sent the minor into the store to buy alcohol,the vendor sells it to them,the store owner is then charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
Now on the other hand if the youth came into the store in disguise,or tried to bargain with the vendor,repeatedly,and offerred the vendor say an extrodinary amount of money for the sell to complete,then entrapment may very well be a defense and the charges will then be dropped.
Kicking in a persons door is a form of extreme prejudice,there must be a well established probable cause in order for an action such as that to take place.
The same evaluation must be given in deciding when to use such force
first point must evaluate
1. Is there a risk of endangerment taking place?
2. Does the action warrant a use of police power that allows the excersise of tresspass force to enter?
Years ago I had a relative that kept a stash of weed,for his and his wifes use only.
At the time they were living in his fathers residence.
The police knocked on the door and handed a warrant to search the residence for the weed.
They entered into the home,they went to his father's bedroom door which had been padlocked,because he ownend guns(children were also living in the residence).
He then told them his father was at work,and he would call him to unlock the door,while placing the phone call the police used extreme prejudice and kicked down the door,enterring into and finding nothing,dogs sniffing everywhere unable to find anything,after several hours he told them if they were looking for weed here it is,it was lying on the fireplace mantle in open veiw(they were so used to weed being hidden they overlooked it for two hours).
Nevertheless the owner of the residence showed the police used extreme prejudice and abused their power by excessive force,the police department had to pay for a new door replacement.
And the charge of weed was probation,no fine.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by hittingrabbit

Im amazed as to so many people posting in here that are willing to give up their fundemental rights to appease a personal morally objective point of veiw.

and which "fundamental right" would that be?

There is no such law that prohibits alchohol consumption by a minor,but the sell of an alchoholic beverage to a minor is prohibited.

Wrong. It depends on the state you are in and the circumstances. In my state a party like the one described could very well be against the law if minors are present consuming alcohol.

Matter of fact if I wanted to sit around and drink booze with my children their isnt 1 single court that would be able to legally prosecute.

Provided they don't rip-snortin' drunk and have to receive medical attention ... that could be child neglect.

they sent the minor into the store to buy alcohol,the vendor sells it to them,the store owner is then charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Maybe. But we have specific laws right on point for that one here. I have never seen that charge used and I spent a few years doing nothing but juvenile crimes (which included similar decoy operations).

Kicking in a persons door is a form of extreme prejudice,

What? I missed that legal term ... isn't "Extreme Prjudice" a movie?

there must be a well established probable cause in order for an action such as that to take place.

What do you mean by "well established"?

You need cause and an exigency to get around a warrant or consent. There is nothing about "well established" anywhere that I have read (at least in my reading of my state's law).

2. Does the action warrant a use of police power that allows the excersise of tresspass force to enter?

"Trespass" is a legal term defining the UNLAWFUL entry on to, or in to a property. It is NOT trespassing if the police make a lawful entry.

He then told them his father was at work,and he would call him to unlock the door,while placing the phone call the police used extreme prejudice and kicked down the door

What is "extreme prejudice"?

They had a warrant ... they kicked in the door. They did not HAVE to wait for pop to come home with a key.

Nevertheless the owner of the residence showed the police used extreme prejudice and abused their power by excessive force,the police department had to pay for a new door replacement.

What? Heck, we often have to pay for any damage caused in the service of a search warrant anyway. I doubt he got anything he wouldn't have gotten anyway.

If they had "abused" their power, he could have gotten a lot of money ... he got a door. That happens all the time.

And the charge of weed was probation,no fine.

Wow! That's tougher than my state! Usually our defendants get a fine and no probation. I'd prefer the probation! Then I could kick in their door again!

- Carl