Underage Drinking Stop and Detainment

[neil49]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Over the weekend, I was at a party in a rural area of PA. I am only 18 and while at the party, consumed 3 beers. I decided to wait a few hours and then left the party. As soon as I pulled out and began to drive down the rural road, I ran into a line of stopped cars, all people leaving the party. The police had blocked the road and forced all cars to stop. After a half hour, they came to my car and took my license and information. Then they went away. An hour later they came back and asked if I was drinking. I said that I had a beer about 2 hours ago. Then, they came back 20 minutes later to administer a breathylizer. During this time, my cell phone had no signal so I was unable to call my parents. I tested a .070, the legal limit for over 21 in PA is .080. After my test, the police told me I should not have lied to them and asked if there was someone at home to pick me up. They said that they could charge me with DUI, but since it was private property, I would only recieve an Underage Drinking Citation. I said that my parents were home, but I could just go back to the party and get a ride home from a friend. After talking amongst themselves, the police told me "your one and only option is to pull your car to the side of the road and sleep here." I obeyed. Now, I have a few questions. Is it legal to detain a minor simply because you suspect, but have no proof, that they were drinking underage (the reason I question is because of PA Superior Court ruling in Commonwealth v. Colleen Wood, a similar situation, that I wonder if it is applicable). Also, it it legal for the police to force me to stay by the side of the road all night instead of getting a ride home with a sober friend or calling my parents? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

[neil49]

in addition, if this goes to court, will it be an option to try for community service? what are the underage drinking laws like in PA?

[CdwJava]

While I can't agree with their choice of options after they stopped you, they likely couldn't let you keep going with a .07. And you COULD be charged with DUI even under .08. Also, you are not a juvenile you are 18 years old so they are under no obligation to call mom and dad. However, had something happened to you on the side of the road, the officer could well have been open to civil liability.

And the case you cite does not seem applicable here as it deals with a minor being in a place they were otherwise allowed to be and detained simply on the basis of her age ... I AM surprised that it appears that underage teens are permitted in bars in PA, though.

Depending on the laws regarding DUI roadblocks in CA, the detention MIGHT be questionable. If you have the money, hire an attorney.

- Carl

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

Just a quickie side note to Carl on another subject - -

Carl, you won't have to put up with that idiot "NotACopOrLawyer" any longer. He's history, vapor, a bad dream, a thing of the past.

IAAL

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

My response:

Just a quickie side note to Carl on another subject - -

Carl, you won't have to put up with that idiot "NotACopOrLawyer" any longer. He's history, vapor, a bad dream, a thing of the past.

IAAL

Oops!

One too many book plugs, eh?

- Carl

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Oops!

One too many book plugs, eh?

- Carl

My response:

That, and the fact that it was bugging me that he was bugging you, which really bugged me.

IAAL

[Shay-Pari'e]

Originally Posted by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

My response:

Just a quickie side note to Carl on another subject - -

Carl, you won't have to put up with that idiot "NotACopOrLawyer" any longer. He's history, vapor, a bad dream, a thing of the past.

IAAL

Speaking only for myself,**************.Thanks IAAL. Big burgen off good guy Carl, and the forum. (HUGGGGS) Carl.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

My response:

That, and the fact that it was bugging me that he was bugging you, which really bugged me.

IAAL

Thanks. I appreciate the concern and the warm fuzzies.

Now my blood pressure can return to normal.

- Carl

[bjl1105]

Originally Posted by neil49

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Over the weekend, I was at a party in a rural area of PA. I am only 18 and while at the party, consumed 3 beers. I decided to wait a few hours and then left the party. As soon as I pulled out and began to drive down the rural road, I ran into a line of stopped cars, all people leaving the party.The police had blocked off the road and forced all cars to stop. After a half hour, they came to my car and took my license and information. Then they went away. An hour later they came back and asked if I was drinking. I said that I had a beer about 2 hours ago. Then, they came back 20 minutes later to administer a breathylizer. During this time, my cell phone had no signal so I was unable to call my parents. I tested a .070, the legal limit for over 21 in PA is .080. After my test, the police told me I should not have lied to them and asked if there was someone at home to pick me up. They said that they could charge me with DUI, but since it was private property, I would only recieve an Underage Drinking Citation. I said that my parents were home, but I could just go back to the party and get a ride home from a friend. After talking amongst themselves, the police told me "your one and only option is to pull your car to the side of the road and sleep here." I obeyed. Now, I have a few questions. Is it legal to detain a minor simply because you suspect, but have no proof, that they were drinking underage (the reason I question is because of PA Superior Court ruling in Commonwealth v. Colleen Wood, a similar situation, that I wonder if it is applicable). Also, it it legal for the police to force me to stay by the side of the road all night instead of getting a ride home with a sober friend or calling my parents? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

I am not a lawyer, but a parent who's daughter got caught in a similar situation last fall. After having her hearing date rescheduled twice at the request of the LCE, she finally had her hearing this past Friday. Magistrate and attorney (and yes you should get an attorney if at all possible) spent quite a bit of time explaining to the officer about this case in point, and how you must have “reasonable suspicion as regards to the particular individual who was arrested.” and how you cannot "coral kids into an area without reasonable suspicion of THAT individual" etc:
[url]http://www.superior.court.state.pa.us/opin.htm[/url]
the case was Commonwealth vs. Paul Mudd (and six others I think)
No. 1233, 1235, 1238-1240, 1249-1251 EDA 2004 Petition for Reargument Denied 3/29/2005 Filed: 1/27/2005

It appears the officers must have had reasonable suspicion BEFORE they pulled you over and questioned you. The Wood case appears to support your feeling that they cant use your own incriminating statement against yourself without first Mirandizing....especially if they held you (you were not free to leave). She was not administered a breath test (altho she requested one). Others at the party who blew numbers have since been found "not guilty" at their hearings due to the way the bust was conducted. When I queried this site for information, I did not get the best advice from the "helpers" here. Mostly, they offered their opinions of my daughter's future alcoholism problems, and how to save herself from destruction. There were a few who offered valid opinions and ideas about the legal questions I had. The bottom line is: get a REAL attorney who is familiar with this type of law ASAP!

ps... she was found Not Guilty

[Bravo8]

You stated that the road was "private property"....is that the property of a person from whom you had permission to be there? Perhaps the reasonn the cops were stopping each and every car exiting the area is because they were all trespassing.

The police do not need PROOF or even probable cause to detain you...they need reasonable suspicion. Now, based upon your description of the incident, I think reasonable suspicion that you were drinking probably didn't exist, but if you were trespassing like I stated above, then the detention would certainly have been lawful.

Remember, the police are under no obligation to charge you with the crime they initially stopped you for.

I, like Carl, am not too fond of their choice to allow you to simply sleep it off on the side of the road, but I see nothing legally wrong with it.

If you plead guilty or are found guilty of underage drinking, your DL will be suspended, and you will have to pay fine and costs. The option to sentence you to community service in lieu of fines is a possibility, but it's up to the Judge.

[Crazed98]

Originally Posted by bjl1105

The Wood case appears to support your feeling that they cant use your own incriminating statement against yourself without first Mirandizing....especially if they held you (you were not free to leave).

They don't have to read you your Miranda Rights if they are just going to make you wait in your car and they didn't use his own statements against him. They asked him if he had been drinking and they verified with the breathalizer that he had been.


Glad to hear your daughter was found not guilty but how often will you see a whole group of kids leaving a house or place at night unless it was a party and there had been drinking. That's reasonable suspicion if you ask me.