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  1. #1
    garynpj is offline Junior Member
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    Angry Walmart Shoplifting?

    What is the name of your state? Kentucky

    My daughter is 14. She was looking at a magazine and had a tongue ring in her sleeve when an undercover officer approached her with his badge. She had the package the tongue ring was in, opened and she was thinking about trying to take it.... but she was getting nervous and was going to drop it off somewhere. I was not with her. I was getting groceries...

    I was called to the front of the store, and led to the security office by the manager. I was talking to a police officer in uniform, and he told me that my daughter was trying to leave the store. My daughter was talking to the undercover officer at the time, and was unaware that she was being accused of trying to leave. I signed the paper the officer said was to release my daughter to me, and after talking to my daughter, I found out that she was no where even close to the exit doors.

    I have a letter now from WalMart saying that I have to pay 200.00 and it aslo says "taking from the facility" in so many words. . .

    What can or should I do ? Help us please!!! I'm a newly single mother, and can't afford to pay this fine in 15 days.
  2. #2
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    The $200 is not a fine, it is a civil assessment from Wal-Mart. If your daughter is being charged, she will face further fines and maybe custody time.

    However, if she is not facing any criminal charges, then this is likely this will be the extent of your expense for the matter. And if she IS charged, you would be eligible for a public defender if you cannot afford an attorney.

    I can't say whether you SHOULD pay the assessment or not. But, they might decide to take you to small claims court or to request charges be filed if you don't. Not being familiar with the laws in KY, I really don't know if that's possible ... but, it could be a possibility.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  3. #3
    MJ42099 Guest
    Not a legal expert or anything, but here are a few thoughts:

    How long ago did this happen? Wal-Mart uses security cameras in all their stores. If your daughter is telling you the truth, you may want to check into viewing the security tapes from the day and time the incident happened. However - these tapes generally run on a 30 day reel - which means they are taped over after 30 days - at least that is what I was told many years ago when I tried to obtain them for my own issues. I don't know the best way to go about getting a look at them - there are many lawyers who offer free consultations - one may be able to offer some advice in this area.

    If you can't get a look at the tapes, and you are serious about not paying Wal-Mart, you must be prepared for charges to be brought against your daughter. In this case you would get a lawyer (as CdwJava pointed out - the court would appoint a lawyer at no charge if you can't afford one). HOWEVER, should you lose the case, you will almost certainly pay attorney fees + court costs+fines. If you go the court route and get an appointed lawyer - stay on him/her to do all they can! Don't sit back and leave it it the lawyers lap - bring up your own ideas and research whatever you can on your own as well.

    However, the fact remains that your daughter admitted to not only thinking about taking the item, but was seriously considering doing so. If I were in your shoes, I would think heavily on paying the Wal-Mart fine and making your daughter repay you by doing odd jobs, babysitting, etc. Even though she didn't take it, the thought is there and she is basically getting off with out any consequences. It is wrong to steal and she needs to learn this beyond a shadow of a doubt! I have a 12 yo girl myself, so I can understand your concerns. If you don't have the 200.00 up front to pay, I am sure if you contact the issuer of the letter they will work out a short term payment plan with you.

    I Hope this is helpful. Good luck.
  4. #4
    BelizeBreeze is offline Senior Member
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    The fact that she had the package in her pocket and opened is enough to sustain a charge of shoplifting.

    Either work out payments with Wal-Mart or pay the entire fine.

    THEN daughter can start paying back the fine with a little work because it's 'come to jesus' time.

    (edit to add details) The last time I had to discipline my oldest daughter was three years ago for taking a candy bar. The cost of the bar was $0.79 and I went back in and paid for it.

    Her FINE (instigated by me) was four consecutive weeks spooning out soup at the Methodist Downtown Mission in Kansas City.

    Do you think she even thinks about stealing now
    Last edited by BelizeBreeze; 11-24-2004 at 02:37 PM.
  5. #5
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    I have a letter now from WalMart saying that I have to pay 200.00
    Under Kentucky law (see below), the merchant has the right to recover civil damages.

    KENTUCKY CIVIL RECOVERY LAW
    Section 411.095. Liability for stealing or damaging goods of retailers or wholesalers.
    (1) An adult or emancipated minor who damages, destroys, or takes possession of any goods, wares, or merchandise, stored, displayed or offered for sale by any wholesale or retail store or other mercantile establishment, or who alters the price indicia of the merchandise, in violation of the provisions of KRS Chapters 512 and 514, without having paid the purchase price therefor, shall be civilly liable to the owner for actual damages, if any, and for a penalty to the owner in the amount of the retail value of the merchandise not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500.00), plus an additional penalty to the owner of not less than one hundred dollars ($100.00) and not more than two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00).
    (2) The custodial parents or legal guardian having custody of an unemancipated minor who damages, destroys or takes possession of any goods, wares, or merchandise, stored, displayed, or offered for sale by any wholesale or retail store or other mercantile establishment, or who alters the price indicia of the merchandise, which would be a public offense, without having paid the purchase price thereof, shall be civilly liable to the owner for actual damages, if any, and for a penalty to the owner in the amount of the retail value of the merchandise, not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500.00), plus an additional penalty to the owner of not less than one hundred dollars ($100.00) nor more than two hundred fifty dollars($250.00). For purposes of this subsection, liability shall not be imposed upon any governmental entity, private agency, or foster parents assigned responsibility for the minor child pursuant to a court order or action of the Cabinet for Human Resources, or any agency thereunder.
    (3) For the purpose of this section, "owner" shall include any agent or employee of the owner.
    (4) A conviction of an offense under KRS Chapters 512 or 514 is not a condition precedent to the maintenance of a civil action under this section.
    (5) Civil liability under this section shall not be limited by any other law that limits liability of parents of minor children.
    (6) An action for recovery of damages, or penalty, or both, and costs under this section may be brought in any court of competent jurisdiction, including that small claims division of District Court, if the total amount sought does not exceed the jurisdictional limit of the respective court.
    (7) The fact that an owner has a right to bring an action against any individual as provided in this section shall not limit the right of the owner to demand, in writing, that a person who is liable under this section remit the amount of the claim prior to the commencement of any legal action.
    (8) Judgments, but not claims, arising under this section may be assigned.
    (9) In addition to any civil damages or penalties, or both, which may be recovered under this section, a judgment for recovery shall also include court costs.
    (10) Civil claims under this section shall apply to those claims which arise after July 13, 1990.


    and it aslo says "taking from the facility" in so many words. . .
    The fact that she removed the item from the packaging is sufficient to show the INTENT to shoplift.
  6. #6
    stealth2 is offline Senior Member
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    (O/T) I'm wondering what use a 14yo would have with a tongue ring. Unless her tongue is pierced. In which case - what were you thinking?
  7. #7
    stevek3 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealth2
    (O/T) I'm wondering what use a 14yo would have with a tongue ring. Unless her tongue is pierced. In which case - what were you thinking?
    She could simply get her tongue pierced after the purchase. Or theft. Or whatever it was. Besides, there's plenty of other things to pierce besides a tongue. Who said the ring was ever intended for her tongue? [Fill in one or more of your favorite female bodyparts here].
  8. #8
    garynpj is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for all of your replies. My daughter is still sticking to her same story, and she's never done anything like this before. I believe her, but I would also like to see the security tape at Walmart. We will be going there tomorrow. I really don't believe she was walking out of the store.. I always thought that you had to actually be walking out of a store to be caught for shoplifting... ? She said that she did have the package the tongue ring was in open, but she hadn't taken it out of the actual package. Does the 2 cent package count as damaged goods? I don't understand the police report for this... and we will also be trying to contact him in the morning.

    As for having her tongue pierced, this is another case! She actually had this done behind my back and without my permission. We will be trying to get a lot done tomorrow! This man will hopefully be loosing his license at least...

    I wish there were a way my daughter could do work for Walmart to earn the money to pay this fine. Bringing in carts from the snow sounds pretty punishing... It's just not fair for the parents to get all of the punishment, and I Really feel sorry for the parents that have kids that are trying to get back at them for anything.

    any other suggestions? Thank you so much!!!
  9. #9
    stealth2 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    She was looking at a magazine and had a tongue ring in her sleeve
    This is a bit more than just having an open package. She had the merchendise HIDDEN!
  10. #10
    notbeingpaid is offline Junior Member
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    In order for someone to make an accusation of shoplifting, they had to see her doing it, either on camera, or in person, or they would have to catch it in a search, after the person leaves. If she did shove the ring up her sleeve, she had the intent to shoplift. Since it would appear someone saw her doing it, they reacted properly according to Wal-Marts policy on loss prevention.

    A damaged package is damaged merchandise. The item cannot be sold at full price with a damaged package. That store would have to pay to have the item shipped back and replaced.

    No, they will not hire her to push buggies. They conduct a background check and a drug test before they will hire anyone. Since she has been caught shoplifting, they will not hire her as long as she has it on her record. There are plenty of people who do not have criminal backgrounds that they can hire to push the buggies in for them, without having to resort to hiring people who have already stolen from them. Employees have too much opportunity to take things, why should they take the chance on her, when she has already attempted to take from them once?

    Why should the parents of shoplifters be punished? Perhaps for raising a child who would shoplift, or perhaps for not keeping a better eye on their child while they are shopping. It isn't their job to babysit your delinquent child.
  11. #11
    garynpj is offline Junior Member
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    My daughter is looking for jobs everywhere in and out of our neighborhood, and NOTBEING PAID, after your rude reply "Why should the parents of shoplifters be punished? Perhaps for raising a child who would shoplift, or perhaps for not keeping a better eye on their child while they are shopping. It isn't their job to babysit your delinquent child." I can only hope that something like this happens to you. I have never been accused of breaking any laws... even speeding, and have never spent any time in court or jail for anything...

    My daughter was telling the truth on her story for all of the good people that wrote to try to help us, though. The security tape and the police report do not match, and she was not trying to leave the store. She really was looking at magazines when being approached.

    We will be paying Walmart their price, but I still don't understand how people can wear shoes to a register and pay for them... or clothes... or be eating while shopping and get the chance to actually see if they are going to "steal" the merchandise.
  12. #12
    notbeingpaid is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    My daughter is looking for jobs everywhere in and out of our neighborhood,
    I would not expect prospective employers to slobber all over themselves at the chance to hire a 14 year old shoplifter.

    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    and NOTBEING PAID, after your rude reply "Why should the parents of shoplifters be punished? Perhaps for raising a child who would shoplift, or perhaps for not keeping a better eye on their child while they are shopping. It isn't their job to babysit your delinquent child." I can only hope that something like this happens to you.
    I kind of doubt it will.

    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    I have never been accused of breaking any laws... even speeding, and have never spent any time in court or jail for anything... ,
    Well, neither have I, but your daughter has.

    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    My daughter was telling the truth on her story for all of the good people that wrote to try to help us, though. The security tape and the police report do not match, and she was not trying to leave the store. She really was looking at magazines when being approached. ,
    It doesn't really matter if she was standing there or trying to leave. Also, the security cameras move quite a bit. It is unlikely they were focused on your daughter for very long unless the person in the security room was alerted to her behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    We will be paying Walmart their price, but I still don't understand how people can wear shoes to a register and pay for them... or clothes... .
    Shoes might be allowed if they have the box in the open, but they do not have to allow that, and wouldn't likely allow it. The clothes are the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by garynpj
    or be eating while shopping and get the chance to actually see if they are going to "steal" the merchandise.
    Most of these situations are not the same thing as someone shoving jewelry up their sleeve after removing it from the packaging. If a person drinks a soda, they aren't trying to hide it, and usually someone walking around with an open soda, or anything else will be watched. A person might be deciding to shoplift while walking around with items in their buggy, but people who wonder around with items hidden in their clothing are not trying to decide to shoplift, they are trying to decide if they can get away with it.

    Good for you for believing your child. With her mother on her side she just might get away with it another time or two.
  13. #13
    garynpj is offline Junior Member
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    Talking

    Not being paid.... sounds like you must be a problem to me! LOL

    Must not have any family either... which explains your rudeness...

    Must really be a good worker to not get paid
  14. #14
    notbeingpaid is offline Junior Member
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    I do find it pathetic that you would blame everyone else except your daughter, or yourself for her shoplifting. It couldn't possibly be your fault, or hers that she did what she did, could it? The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree.
  15. #15
    Lorane is offline Member
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    notbeingpaid,
    Are you using multiple names on the forum. You and at least 2 other people, all with the same type of responses, do very little to help others. You spend all you time belittling others.

    My son had something similar to this happen to him. He went into a store to buy some groceries and tasted a strawberry out of two different baskets. After he paid for the groceries and started to leave he was arrested.

    He went to court, never been in trouble before or since, and was fined and sentenced civic duty. One location for this civic duty was the public library in our town. He called the library and they told him they no longer involved in the program. He called the court house and told them of the story. They lady at the court house stated that she would get back with him.

    He was 15 at the time and two later he moved to a different city. Coming back home to visit, he and some friends were stopped by our city police officer. They ran a check on his license and found a warrant for his arrest. He was arrested, a bond was posted. They told him that he would be notified of the court date. He went back to the city where he lived.

    Two months go by and he calls me to see if I had heard anything and he also call the court house once during that time. So I call the court house and they tell me that a warrant is issued for his arrest again. By the way, the bondsman could not believe that anyone would be arrested for eating strawberries in a store. I have seen it done in the store many, many times. I do not eat anything from a store until I bring it home to be washed.

    To make a long story short, I hired an attorney, both bond monies were returned and the arrest removed from his record.

    In our state, I was told that they had to be leaving the store with the merchandise, in order to be arrested. I also think you have a good argument about the people who wear the shoes to the counter and the people who are eating the candy bar before paying for it. Good luck.

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