what is an official investigation?

[ljp5014]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania.

I am a penn state student and a couple of weeks ago my friends and I were tailgating for a home game. The police came by and began to issue underage citations to those who were not 21. I was very nervous and lied about my age, needless to say a bad decision (I am currently 20). After the officer found out I was not 21 he issued an underage citation and a charge of false identification to law enforcement authorities. The false identification charge is a misdemeanor. I did some research and found that the Pennsylvania code of statutes says: "A person commits an offense if he furnishes law enforcement authorities with false information about his identity after being informed by a law enforcement officer who is in uniform or who has identified himself as a law enforcement officer that the person is the subject of an official investigation of a violation of law." I do not believe I was informed that I was the subject of an official investigation and I would like to know what constitutes an official investigation. Please, if anyone knows the definition of an official investigation or has advice I would love to hear it.

The official website where I found the Penn code of statutes is http://members.aol.com/StatutesP3/18PA4914.html

 

[FlyingRon]

Lying about your age would appear to not be a violation either. Identification means your name and that seems to be the only way it is used in the case law. So unless you told the officer that you were someone else, it would seem not to be a violation of the statute.

 

[CavemanLawyer]

Identification definitely includes both name and date of birth since that is how people are always identified by police officers. A name typically is not enough to identify someone because there are too many people with the same name, so you distinguish them by DOB. Your DOB is definitely an identifying feature.

Official investigation is not defined by statute. I imagine it refers to any act within the scope of an officer's duty when they are investigating a crime. I mean when an officer pulls you over for anything and then approaches your car that is an official investigation. Its pretty wide open. I also imagine whether you have, "been informed of the official investigation" is just a subject test of whether the officer did anything to make you subjectively believe that you are the subject of a criminal investigation. If the officer is writing tickets for underage drinking and then asks you your age, well if I was the trier of fact I wouldn't have a problem believing that you knew you were the subject of an official investigation.

 

[FlyingRon]

If he asked for the data of birth, that MIGHT be an issue, but I believe that is a immense stretch having read the case law in regards to this in the PA annotated code. Every time this statute is involved it refers to people giving fictitious (or intentionally evasive) NAMES.

If the cop came up and said "How old are ya' kid" and the guy says 21 last July. It would not appear to be a violation of the statute.

 

[CavemanLawyer]

Can you cite some of those cases please? I don't have access to Penn. cases.

Not to be difficult but I find it incredibly unlikely that this statute doesn't specifically apply to dates of birth. That is exactly what every officer asks someone when they want to identify them, "give me your name and date of birth." This is so because I believe that a name and DOB is the MINIMUM information needed to run an NCIC/TCIC search. If you are given a correct name and an incorrect date of birth than it is impossible to get a positive hit on them.

People across the country get arrested for False ID all the time just for giving a false DOB. There's very few identifiers that are used by law enforcement. Basically there's name, DOB, and Social Security number for identifying an individual and then if its pertinent to some aspect of the investigation an officer may need to know address, phone number, or something else. If the intent of this law was to only apply to one's name, than it would just read, "false name." I have never seen a False ID statute written this narrowly.I think its clear that these statutes are intentionally broad enough to apply to the basic identifiers universally used by law enforcement which is why it applies to any, "information about one's identity."

Like I said I don't have access to Penn. law, at least not without paying extra on Westlaw. With the best google can offer I found this case:
http://www.lycolaw.org/Cases/opinions/2007/summers090607a.pdf

It does involve someone giving a false name but it specifically mentions that he gave a false DOB too as justification for his violation of that law. You can also tell from the context that the officer specifically asked him for his name and DOB in order to run the NCIC/TCIC search.

In any event this case kinda confirms what I mentioned above that the officer doesn't have to say the magic words, "you are now under a formal investigation" even though he actually did do this. The judge implies that just the circumstances would make it known that you are under investigation, except that in this case the guy was a passenger and had no reason to believe he was the one under investigation. But you don't have to read between the lines to see that if it were the driver who had given false information, his petition would have been denied.

 

[disneykid52]

is there such a thing as an "un-official" investigation?...thats like being on trial and the lawyer says to you on the stand..."now tell the court in your own words",,,,who the hell's words am i going to use ditz head?? of course im gonna use "my own words",,,,geesh.

 

[CdwJava]

is there such a thing as an "un-official" investigation?...thats like being on trial and the lawyer says to you on the stand..."now tell the court in your own words",,,,who the hell's words am i going to use ditz head?? of course im gonna use "my own words",,,,geesh.

Note the date of this thread from 2007?

Oh, and the term regarding using one's own words is to prevent a person from quoting someone else, reading from a report, or trying to repeat what someone else summarized.

- Carl

 

[disneykid52]

Note the date of this thread from 2007
- Carl

and your point is???

 

[Indiana Filer]

and your point is???

That disneykid52 doesn't know how calendars work.

 

[CdwJava]

and your point is???

Uh ... that you are necroposting.

Or do you regularly begin discussing conversations of events that happened more than 18 months ago with people who have long since left the forums?

- Carl

 

[disneykid52]

free country,,,,last i knew,,,but then sometimes i wonder.

 

[Country Living]

Board decorum

• Don't hijack someone else's thread.
• Don't respond to an OLD thread.

 

[swrdmbo]

Oh darn...I thought the point was that disney was the ditzhead!!!


Or that disney was a blockhead for not getting the point....oh well....necroposting it is.

 

[CdwJava]

free country,,,,last i knew,,,but then sometimes i wonder.

Proper decorum for starting a conversation is to post a new thread with your question.

- Carl