K
KingV
Guest
This is in New Jersey.
I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do here. I'll try to present things sequentially though, with dates, so you have an idea of what happened. My apologies as this is quite long.
But as far as I can tell, this accident was not at all my fault, yet my insurance company began payout, then halted remaining payouts, and the other driver's insurance company refused payout.
3/21/03, shortly after 5pm - I am driving on a roadway, with my wife as a passenger, and stop to make a left turn into the local PD parking lot. There's a line of traffic waiting for a red light, and there's space open for me to enter the parking lot. The driver who stopped and left space not to block the entry waves me in, I start to enter, and somene passing stopped traffic on the right approaches rapidly. I stop to prevent getting hit on the side, and the other driver skids in an attempt to stop, then collides with me. Note that at the point the collision occurred, the direction the other driver was going is a single lane (becomes 2 lanes a dozen feet after the intersection). See http://mywebpages.comcast.net/king-v/accident/reportsupp3.gif for a picture. I am vehicle #1, the person who hit me is vehicle #2, and the person who waved me in is vehicle #3. Conditions are wet, and vehicle #2 locked the wheels before colliding with a reasonable amount of force. The other driver then suggests we move to the police parking lot to avoid blocking traffic, to which I agree. Stupidly, I did not insist on staying where we were, nor did I get information from the driver of Vehicle #3 so as to have a witness.
The police dept is right there, so we tell them what happened, and they call in an officer, who arrives about 20 min later. This officer asks a few questions and takes a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/king-v/accident/ Note that policertp1 and policerpt2 are the originals done by the police officer. reportsupp1, reportsupp2, and reportsupp3 are my additions (later had to add reportsupp4, not scanned yet, which basically corrected my home address and license plate number, both of which were in error in the report). He says the report will be ready in 5 to 7 days (my wife says that she thought he said 7 to 10 days). He also says that if any summos are to be issued, that they will be mailed within a week.
That evening, I call my insurance company to report the accident. I don't have collision or comprehensive because the car is an older vehicle, worth anywhere from $1000 to $2400 depending on who you believe.
I don't know if this is a factor in the hell I'm going through, but I'm a male in my early 30s, and the other driver is an elderly female in her late 60s.
No summonses were issued by the officer, ultimately.
3/22/03 - My insurance claims adjuster calls back. I go over some details, explaining what happened, and ask that if the other driver tries to make a claim that I be told, because my opinion was that the other driver was completetly at fault.
April 1, 2003 - I get a copy of the police report. See policerpt1 and policerpt2 from the link above. After reading it, I'm horrified, as the accuracy is WAY off.
4/2/03 - I submit corrections to the report. Records dept freaks out, and at first doesn't want to take it, saying that with such discrepancies that I should talk to the officer first. I insist they add it, telling them I have extra copies. I get the office number of the officer and leave a message. Also, I fax these corrections to my insurance company. To see them, see the link above and look at reportsupp1, reportsupp2, and reportsupp3.
4/4/03 - Officer in question returns my call. I explain that the records department told me to call him, and he's seen the supplements I provided. He's a bit defensive, and while I don't remember the whole conversation, I do know that at one point he said what he wrote and what I wrote were "the same thing" and that I only had more details. At another point in the conversation he says that my corrections are just "your interpretation of events" . . and only seems to backpeddle slightly, without actually admitting anything, when I insist upon the question he asked me and the answer I gave, which he did not report correctly in the police report. Finally he says that "insurance companies do not use police reports or tickets issued by the municipality to determine fault, but just do their own investigation." Information I find out later from my claims adjuster to be totally untrue. Also in the conversation is a reference to the records department being uncomfortable "because there's never a problem with my reports."
4/9/03, shortly after noon - Having finally gotten the other driver's insurance information from my ins co (insurance info isn't in the accident reports), I call the other driver's insurance. They take down the initial information, and tell me that their insured has not yet reported the accident to them. They tell me to call back in a few hours to get a claim number. I don't actually get to call back until the 11th or 12th, and they don't have any record of a claim filed on the 9th by me, so I have to give all the info again. They say they don't yet have an accident report and will get one. A few days later they mail me a form to fill out, as well as requesting an estimate from a body shop.
4/14/03 - I file a complaint with the Internal Affairs Division of the police dept. My logic is that if the officer is allowed to make an accident report, he should at least do it accurately. He omitted testimony made by myself and the other driver, changed someof what I said, and omitted his own question, and got my address (new, on the back of my Driver's Lic), and lic plate wrong.
4/17/03 - I file an Improper Passing complaint against the other driver.
4/18/03 - Estimate from the shop I go to comes to $2622.67.
4/30/03 - I get a letter from the other driver's ins co stating "From the facts available to us, we do not believe that our policyholder is responsible for the damage. Therefore, we must decline payment of your claims."
I called immediately and asked how they figured that, particularly as their driver performed an illegal pass. They say that my insurance company paid out 100% to their insured on April 2 (what?!), and that since they paid out 100%, it means that I'm responsible. I argue that their driver was doing something illegal. They tell me to take it up with my ins co.
5/1/03 - I call my adjuster. She says that they did NOT pay out 100%. They got a fax of the police report from the other side (driver or ins co, I don't know yet) on April 26th (the 5th day after the accident!). Based on that report (which completely contradicts what I told them when I called on March 21st), they were going to pay out 100%, sent out the check for the first 80%, were going to send the rest, and when they got my corrections to the report, halted issuance of the remainder. The other driver had by this time already cashed the first check. My insurance company only THEN sent out someone to look at the intersection, agrees the other driver was driving in a "second lane" when there was only one lane marked. They also tell me that they CAN'T get the money back even though, with this new information, they would not have paid out what they did.
I then tell them what the other driver's ins co told me. My adjuster said right out "Well, I can tell you for absolute certain that we did NOT pay 100%". She then agrees to call them and try to get them to reconsider their denial of payment.
5/5/03 - My adjuster calls back. Says she talked with the adjuster at the other ins co, went into detail. She tells me that the other ins co adjuster said that they will NOT reconsider their liability. The reason they give is that they are near the area where the accident occurred and are familiar with it, and say that traffic backs up there, and people pass around on the right all the time.
5/9/03 - I send an email to the adjuster from the other driver's insurance company. I tell them what my adjuster said, and that previously their reasoning was "your company paid out 100%", information which was false. I also said in the email that just because "everybody always does it" does not make what their insured did legal. Further, I stated that if she (the adjuster for that company) would not reconsider, I would then insist on speaking with a manager or supervisor. I further reiterated some erroneous information that they had given me before (that their insured, by April 9, had not reported the accident, etc).
I don't think arguing with them is going to get me anywhere, but I am absolutely appalled that something fairly simple, and that I thought there was NO WAY it could be misinterpreted or gone wrong, has turned out as it does.
It seems like my insurance company doesn't care that they just paid out money on a claim that was made, based on erroneous facts in that claim. I was really surprised to find that they aren't going to try and get their money back.
I don't know whether my insurance company is required to get a little more forceful with the other company or not, or is obligated to help me any further in this matter.
I also don't know what I can do against the other insurance company. I'm really hesitant to bother with a lawyer because I'm figuring that, even if I get 100% damages for my car, that the amount is relatively small and may not clear the lawyer fees . . and that's assuming they don't try to go with offering only 50% or so payout, or even less.
What can I do? I feel I'm really getting cheated here. Not to mention that the stress isn't exactly fun!
Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer advice!
I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do here. I'll try to present things sequentially though, with dates, so you have an idea of what happened. My apologies as this is quite long.
But as far as I can tell, this accident was not at all my fault, yet my insurance company began payout, then halted remaining payouts, and the other driver's insurance company refused payout.
3/21/03, shortly after 5pm - I am driving on a roadway, with my wife as a passenger, and stop to make a left turn into the local PD parking lot. There's a line of traffic waiting for a red light, and there's space open for me to enter the parking lot. The driver who stopped and left space not to block the entry waves me in, I start to enter, and somene passing stopped traffic on the right approaches rapidly. I stop to prevent getting hit on the side, and the other driver skids in an attempt to stop, then collides with me. Note that at the point the collision occurred, the direction the other driver was going is a single lane (becomes 2 lanes a dozen feet after the intersection). See http://mywebpages.comcast.net/king-v/accident/reportsupp3.gif for a picture. I am vehicle #1, the person who hit me is vehicle #2, and the person who waved me in is vehicle #3. Conditions are wet, and vehicle #2 locked the wheels before colliding with a reasonable amount of force. The other driver then suggests we move to the police parking lot to avoid blocking traffic, to which I agree. Stupidly, I did not insist on staying where we were, nor did I get information from the driver of Vehicle #3 so as to have a witness.
The police dept is right there, so we tell them what happened, and they call in an officer, who arrives about 20 min later. This officer asks a few questions and takes a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/king-v/accident/ Note that policertp1 and policerpt2 are the originals done by the police officer. reportsupp1, reportsupp2, and reportsupp3 are my additions (later had to add reportsupp4, not scanned yet, which basically corrected my home address and license plate number, both of which were in error in the report). He says the report will be ready in 5 to 7 days (my wife says that she thought he said 7 to 10 days). He also says that if any summos are to be issued, that they will be mailed within a week.
That evening, I call my insurance company to report the accident. I don't have collision or comprehensive because the car is an older vehicle, worth anywhere from $1000 to $2400 depending on who you believe.
I don't know if this is a factor in the hell I'm going through, but I'm a male in my early 30s, and the other driver is an elderly female in her late 60s.
No summonses were issued by the officer, ultimately.
3/22/03 - My insurance claims adjuster calls back. I go over some details, explaining what happened, and ask that if the other driver tries to make a claim that I be told, because my opinion was that the other driver was completetly at fault.
April 1, 2003 - I get a copy of the police report. See policerpt1 and policerpt2 from the link above. After reading it, I'm horrified, as the accuracy is WAY off.
4/2/03 - I submit corrections to the report. Records dept freaks out, and at first doesn't want to take it, saying that with such discrepancies that I should talk to the officer first. I insist they add it, telling them I have extra copies. I get the office number of the officer and leave a message. Also, I fax these corrections to my insurance company. To see them, see the link above and look at reportsupp1, reportsupp2, and reportsupp3.
4/4/03 - Officer in question returns my call. I explain that the records department told me to call him, and he's seen the supplements I provided. He's a bit defensive, and while I don't remember the whole conversation, I do know that at one point he said what he wrote and what I wrote were "the same thing" and that I only had more details. At another point in the conversation he says that my corrections are just "your interpretation of events" . . and only seems to backpeddle slightly, without actually admitting anything, when I insist upon the question he asked me and the answer I gave, which he did not report correctly in the police report. Finally he says that "insurance companies do not use police reports or tickets issued by the municipality to determine fault, but just do their own investigation." Information I find out later from my claims adjuster to be totally untrue. Also in the conversation is a reference to the records department being uncomfortable "because there's never a problem with my reports."
4/9/03, shortly after noon - Having finally gotten the other driver's insurance information from my ins co (insurance info isn't in the accident reports), I call the other driver's insurance. They take down the initial information, and tell me that their insured has not yet reported the accident to them. They tell me to call back in a few hours to get a claim number. I don't actually get to call back until the 11th or 12th, and they don't have any record of a claim filed on the 9th by me, so I have to give all the info again. They say they don't yet have an accident report and will get one. A few days later they mail me a form to fill out, as well as requesting an estimate from a body shop.
4/14/03 - I file a complaint with the Internal Affairs Division of the police dept. My logic is that if the officer is allowed to make an accident report, he should at least do it accurately. He omitted testimony made by myself and the other driver, changed someof what I said, and omitted his own question, and got my address (new, on the back of my Driver's Lic), and lic plate wrong.
4/17/03 - I file an Improper Passing complaint against the other driver.
4/18/03 - Estimate from the shop I go to comes to $2622.67.
4/30/03 - I get a letter from the other driver's ins co stating "From the facts available to us, we do not believe that our policyholder is responsible for the damage. Therefore, we must decline payment of your claims."
I called immediately and asked how they figured that, particularly as their driver performed an illegal pass. They say that my insurance company paid out 100% to their insured on April 2 (what?!), and that since they paid out 100%, it means that I'm responsible. I argue that their driver was doing something illegal. They tell me to take it up with my ins co.
5/1/03 - I call my adjuster. She says that they did NOT pay out 100%. They got a fax of the police report from the other side (driver or ins co, I don't know yet) on April 26th (the 5th day after the accident!). Based on that report (which completely contradicts what I told them when I called on March 21st), they were going to pay out 100%, sent out the check for the first 80%, were going to send the rest, and when they got my corrections to the report, halted issuance of the remainder. The other driver had by this time already cashed the first check. My insurance company only THEN sent out someone to look at the intersection, agrees the other driver was driving in a "second lane" when there was only one lane marked. They also tell me that they CAN'T get the money back even though, with this new information, they would not have paid out what they did.
I then tell them what the other driver's ins co told me. My adjuster said right out "Well, I can tell you for absolute certain that we did NOT pay 100%". She then agrees to call them and try to get them to reconsider their denial of payment.
5/5/03 - My adjuster calls back. Says she talked with the adjuster at the other ins co, went into detail. She tells me that the other ins co adjuster said that they will NOT reconsider their liability. The reason they give is that they are near the area where the accident occurred and are familiar with it, and say that traffic backs up there, and people pass around on the right all the time.
5/9/03 - I send an email to the adjuster from the other driver's insurance company. I tell them what my adjuster said, and that previously their reasoning was "your company paid out 100%", information which was false. I also said in the email that just because "everybody always does it" does not make what their insured did legal. Further, I stated that if she (the adjuster for that company) would not reconsider, I would then insist on speaking with a manager or supervisor. I further reiterated some erroneous information that they had given me before (that their insured, by April 9, had not reported the accident, etc).
I don't think arguing with them is going to get me anywhere, but I am absolutely appalled that something fairly simple, and that I thought there was NO WAY it could be misinterpreted or gone wrong, has turned out as it does.
It seems like my insurance company doesn't care that they just paid out money on a claim that was made, based on erroneous facts in that claim. I was really surprised to find that they aren't going to try and get their money back.
I don't know whether my insurance company is required to get a little more forceful with the other company or not, or is obligated to help me any further in this matter.
I also don't know what I can do against the other insurance company. I'm really hesitant to bother with a lawyer because I'm figuring that, even if I get 100% damages for my car, that the amount is relatively small and may not clear the lawyer fees . . and that's assuming they don't try to go with offering only 50% or so payout, or even less.
What can I do? I feel I'm really getting cheated here. Not to mention that the stress isn't exactly fun!
Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer advice!
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