I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
It's not nice to delete your thread and posts - - especially when we work so hard to write answers, and when other people can learn from them. So, I'm putting your thread and posts back.
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BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
17 year old daughter had accident in friend's car
What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state?
california
my 17 year old daughter was driving her friend's car without my permission with no insurance and had an accident. we were in the process of buying my daughter a car and putting her on our insurance as she had been living at her dad's previously and on his insurance. the friend's mom had been allowing my daughter to drive the car unbeknownst to me-what was this mom thinking??? anyway, my daughter asked her friend if she could drive the car to our house and she said she could. on the way back to friend's house which is a block and a half away, my daughter lost control of car and took out a fire hydrant and a mailbox. the police were called and she was given a ticket for speeding for which we have to go to court in march. the car is totaled from what friend's parents say and they had paid 5000.00 for it. the police officer at the scene told my daughter that her friend's liability insurance would take care of damage. what are we responsible for, do we need a lawyer and do you think my daughter's license will be suspended??
02-25-2003 01:56 PM
racer72
And a grandpa too.
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Washington state
Posts: 2862
Her friends liability insurance will pay the claim, then come after you for all the money they paid out. There is also a good chance her license will be suspended too. You should talk to an attorney soon.
02-25-2003 04:23 PM
stephenk
Senior Member
Registered: Oct 2001
Location: burbank, california
Posts: 2016
at the time of the accident was your daughter still on her dad's auto insurance policy as a permissive driver?
02-25-2003 04:43 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
Re: 17 year old daughter had accident in friend's car
My response:
Parents are jointly and severally liable with their minor child for damages proximately resulting from the "negligent or wrongful act or omission" of their minor (whether licensed or unlicensed) in driving a motor vehicle with the parents' express or implied permission. [Ca Vehicle § 17708]
But, then you say, "I already wrote that my daughter DIDN'T have my permission." Sorry, that's not a defense. She was licensed to drive, and therefore, by law, had your "implied" permission to drive, and to drive any car she got into. See above.
Ca Vehicle § 17709 applies to cap the parents' maximum damages exposure to $28,000.00. [Ca Vehicle § 17709]
IAAL
02-25-2003 04:58 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
yes my daughter was still on her fathers insurance as we found out through the dmv. he said she wasn't supposed to be. i think his insurance coverage was liability only but am not sure. should i call his insurance? also i did not sign anything for her to get her license-her father did that while she was living with him. i asked him about paying towards the accident and he refused.
02-25-2003 05:49 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
My response:
In a divorce situation, the parent who has possession, custody and control of the child is the parent who is "jointly and separately" liable for the damages caused by their minor.
So, if she was living with you at the time of the accident, it doesn't matter that her father signed for her license. You're the one "on the hook", right along with your daughter (however, in the real world, you're the one most likely to have the "deep pockets").
If I was in her father's shoes, and if you asked me to pay any portion of the damages, I would refuse you also. This one's on your shoulders.
IAAL
02-25-2003 05:57 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
we have joint custody so doesn't that mean joint liability? i guess we should get a lawyer just in case then, right?
02-25-2003 06:13 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
My response:
Remember when I said "possession, custody and control of the child"? Reread the first paragraph of my last response to you.
"Joint custody" doesn't mean "joint liability" in this instance. Joint custody only has to do with the "care, feeding, housing and clothing" of your daughter - - not "joint responsibility" or "joint liability" for her actions. If you and her father were still married and living together, then you'd be correct. But, the fact is, you and hubby are divorced and you're both living in two different residences.
At the time of the accident, your daughter was domiciled and residing with you; ergo, you had "possession, custody and control of the child".
So, get another opinion from you're local attorney, but you'll find out that what I'm telling you will be the same thing he/she tells you.
IAAL
02-25-2003 06:21 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
if she was on his insurance would it be liable? we have already paid 2500.00 to the parents as we thought we should pay for the car.
02-25-2003 06:22 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
thank you -i do appreciate your advice-i guess it sucks to be us!! we will be getting a lawyer.
02-25-2003 06:31 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
My response:
Not necessarily.
If she was living with you, but the insurance coverage was sold to your ex-hubby, and based upon where he lives, then the insurance company could (and probably will) deny coverage to your daughter because she wasn't domiciled and residing with her father at the time of the accident.
Insurance is sold, and coverage is afforded, based upon then existing information. If that information changes (e.g., residence) then the information is no longer current, and the insurance company may have an "out" for not extending coverage to your daughter. In other words, she needed her own policy (or your policy) reflecting current information.
For example, I reside in Los Angeles. If I move to another town, say, Simi Valley, then my insurance rates would drop, and my terms of coverage would be somewhat different. Then, if I moved back to Los Angeles, and got into an accident, and I failed to tell my insurance company of my move, my insurance company could easily deny me coverage because Los Angeles is not the area of domicile or residence they "bargained" for in the contract. My chances of getting into an accident in Los Angeles are far greater than that of Simi Valley.
IAAL
========================================
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
17 year old daughter had accident in friend's car
What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state?
california
my 17 year old daughter was driving her friend's car without my permission with no insurance and had an accident. we were in the process of buying my daughter a car and putting her on our insurance as she had been living at her dad's previously and on his insurance. the friend's mom had been allowing my daughter to drive the car unbeknownst to me-what was this mom thinking??? anyway, my daughter asked her friend if she could drive the car to our house and she said she could. on the way back to friend's house which is a block and a half away, my daughter lost control of car and took out a fire hydrant and a mailbox. the police were called and she was given a ticket for speeding for which we have to go to court in march. the car is totaled from what friend's parents say and they had paid 5000.00 for it. the police officer at the scene told my daughter that her friend's liability insurance would take care of damage. what are we responsible for, do we need a lawyer and do you think my daughter's license will be suspended??
02-25-2003 01:56 PM
racer72
And a grandpa too.
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Washington state
Posts: 2862
Her friends liability insurance will pay the claim, then come after you for all the money they paid out. There is also a good chance her license will be suspended too. You should talk to an attorney soon.
02-25-2003 04:23 PM
stephenk
Senior Member
Registered: Oct 2001
Location: burbank, california
Posts: 2016
at the time of the accident was your daughter still on her dad's auto insurance policy as a permissive driver?
02-25-2003 04:43 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
Re: 17 year old daughter had accident in friend's car
BobbyJack said:
My response:
Parents are jointly and severally liable with their minor child for damages proximately resulting from the "negligent or wrongful act or omission" of their minor (whether licensed or unlicensed) in driving a motor vehicle with the parents' express or implied permission. [Ca Vehicle § 17708]
But, then you say, "I already wrote that my daughter DIDN'T have my permission." Sorry, that's not a defense. She was licensed to drive, and therefore, by law, had your "implied" permission to drive, and to drive any car she got into. See above.
Ca Vehicle § 17709 applies to cap the parents' maximum damages exposure to $28,000.00. [Ca Vehicle § 17709]
IAAL
02-25-2003 04:58 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
yes my daughter was still on her fathers insurance as we found out through the dmv. he said she wasn't supposed to be. i think his insurance coverage was liability only but am not sure. should i call his insurance? also i did not sign anything for her to get her license-her father did that while she was living with him. i asked him about paying towards the accident and he refused.
02-25-2003 05:49 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
BobbyJack said:
My response:
In a divorce situation, the parent who has possession, custody and control of the child is the parent who is "jointly and separately" liable for the damages caused by their minor.
So, if she was living with you at the time of the accident, it doesn't matter that her father signed for her license. You're the one "on the hook", right along with your daughter (however, in the real world, you're the one most likely to have the "deep pockets").
If I was in her father's shoes, and if you asked me to pay any portion of the damages, I would refuse you also. This one's on your shoulders.
IAAL
02-25-2003 05:57 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
we have joint custody so doesn't that mean joint liability? i guess we should get a lawyer just in case then, right?
02-25-2003 06:13 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
BobbyJack said:
My response:
Remember when I said "possession, custody and control of the child"? Reread the first paragraph of my last response to you.
"Joint custody" doesn't mean "joint liability" in this instance. Joint custody only has to do with the "care, feeding, housing and clothing" of your daughter - - not "joint responsibility" or "joint liability" for her actions. If you and her father were still married and living together, then you'd be correct. But, the fact is, you and hubby are divorced and you're both living in two different residences.
At the time of the accident, your daughter was domiciled and residing with you; ergo, you had "possession, custody and control of the child".
So, get another opinion from you're local attorney, but you'll find out that what I'm telling you will be the same thing he/she tells you.
IAAL
02-25-2003 06:21 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
if she was on his insurance would it be liable? we have already paid 2500.00 to the parents as we thought we should pay for the car.
02-25-2003 06:22 PM
BobbyJack
Junior Member
Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 5
thank you -i do appreciate your advice-i guess it sucks to be us!! we will be getting a lawyer.
02-25-2003 06:31 PM
I AM ALWAYS LIABLE
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 19063
BobbyJack said:
My response:
Not necessarily.
If she was living with you, but the insurance coverage was sold to your ex-hubby, and based upon where he lives, then the insurance company could (and probably will) deny coverage to your daughter because she wasn't domiciled and residing with her father at the time of the accident.
Insurance is sold, and coverage is afforded, based upon then existing information. If that information changes (e.g., residence) then the information is no longer current, and the insurance company may have an "out" for not extending coverage to your daughter. In other words, she needed her own policy (or your policy) reflecting current information.
For example, I reside in Los Angeles. If I move to another town, say, Simi Valley, then my insurance rates would drop, and my terms of coverage would be somewhat different. Then, if I moved back to Los Angeles, and got into an accident, and I failed to tell my insurance company of my move, my insurance company could easily deny me coverage because Los Angeles is not the area of domicile or residence they "bargained" for in the contract. My chances of getting into an accident in Los Angeles are far greater than that of Simi Valley.
IAAL