Hit while backing into driveway on slick street

[jeanied]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH

Hi all,
Recently, I found myself needing to back into my driveway, so I waited for traffic to go by then pulled forward at an angle to aim the rear of my car at the driveway. I began backing into the driveway and was going at a slow speed in order to keep myself aligned and not go into the neighbor's yard. As I was backing in, a car came down the street and attempted to brake; however, the road surface was extremely slick that day and the other car slid a considerable distance (I would estimate 30-40 feet) and slammed into me.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, but there was damage, mostly to the other person's car. The police came and stated that if they completed an accident report, one of us would receive a citation (local law) but that we shouldn't allow that to dissuade us. We agreed to the report and some paperwork was filled out then the officer told us that because I was going in reverse at the time of the accident, I was at fault and I received my ticket.

I was advised by an insurance rep that if I just pay the ticket, in addition to the ticket cost, it will likely cost me several hundred dollars over the next few years in increased premiums. However, I was told that I have a strong chance of successfully defending myself in court and that if the citation is reversed, I will have no liability in the incident, but they said that they did not know what the court costs are if I go to court but lose.

Now, I'm not sure what to do. It seems reasonable that I could win the court case given the very slick condition of the road (as noted in the police report), the other driver's statement and the presence of witnesses and others have advised me that in most places that do not require someone to be cited, I would not have been.

Should I consult with a lawyer to see what my chances are and what the costs would be? How does that even work (finding and hiring a lawyer)? I don't want to end up paying more to fight this than it would cost me to just pay the ticket and increased premiums. Thanks for all your help in advance.

[ecmst12]

As far as I understand, you were not backing up TOWARDS the other car but were backing away from the road, and he was coming down the street that you were backing off of, right? If that's the case, you shouldn't get automatic fault just because your car was in reverse. However you will probably have some fault since he did have the right of way. You can feel free to fight the ticket, but that won't matter if your insurance company isn't going to fight liability. Are they?

[KimInNY]

It is never a compleately an "at fault" unless a car was rear ended, I think this well end up being a percentage of fault, and probably the lower percent being yours (ex 20/80) because youwere already in your movement, and the other car could have/ should have avoided you.

[jeanied]

Yes, he was coming south on the street and I was facing north-east-ish as I was backing into my driveway. The officer just said that I was at fault because I was backing up and I've always heard that whoever is backing up in an accident is automatically at fault (just like rear-ending someone) and since I had already showed the officer the long skid marks, etc. I just accepted the ticket.

I spoke with my insurance company and my agent said that as of now, my insurance will be paying the other party's entire claim, but that if I fight the ticket and get it reversed, my insurance will be liable for $0. I don't really know more than that.

I feel that I should not take total fault given the road conditions and the fact that none of the other cars coming down the road had similar problems stopping in a reasonable distance (speed perhaps?) but I'm practical and don't want to go fight this thing if it will cost me more than the ticket + increased premiums. So, I'm wondering (a) What are my chances of successfully defending myself and (b) What is the worst case scenario (fighting and losing) going to cost me?

These seem like the sort of questions a local attorney might best be able to answer, but I don't know how to go about hiring one just to consult with them, rather than retaining them to do the full fighting and everything in court.

[KimInNY]

you didnt back into her, you were backing up, thats diffrent.

where were your damages? on the back, or on the side. (drivers side I assume.)

Fight the ticket. I dont think you need a lawyer, as long as you didnt pay it yet. but you really could have gotten more evidence from the start. (pictures)

Keep that in mind for next time, dont admit anything, take pictures and you dont have to accept the ticket if you dont beleve it to be right, fighting it is always a option, maby the police didnt want to "investigate" and just went by his quick list guidelines for accidents. (cause while its true, if you back into a car its your fault, but if you are backing up into a driveway, for example, and someone hits you, its there fault as you were already in a movement which was not hitting the other guy, and the damage to your car wasnt on the bumper, (where it would have been if you backed into someone.)


On the other hand several hundred ofer the corse of a few years isnt the same as a few thousand (like here in ny) so maby it wont be that bad as long as you dont plan to change companies in the next 5 years.

[jeanied]

Originally Posted by KimInNY

you didnt back into her, you were backing up, thats diffrent.

where were your damages? on the back, or on the side. (drivers side I assume.)

I agree that it should be different!

I was hit on the back driver's side corner as the other driver swerved when he realized he would not be able to stop in time. He swerved away from me and slightly into my driveway, hitting my back corner - doing no damage to my truck, but taking his mirror off.

Originally Posted by KimInNY

Fight the ticket. I dont think you need a lawyer, as long as you didnt pay it yet. but you really could have gotten more evidence from the start. (pictures)

This is actually why I insisted on getting a police report - do you think I'll need more evidence than that?

Originally Posted by KimInNY

Keep that in mind for next time, dont admit anything, take pictures and you dont have to accept the ticket if you dont beleve it to be right, fighting it is always a option, maby the police didnt want to "investigate" and just went by his quick list guidelines for accidents. (cause while its true, if you back into a car its your fault, but if you are backing up into a driveway, for example, and someone hits you, its there fault as you were already in a movement which was not hitting the other guy, and the damage to your car wasnt on the bumper, (where it would have been if you backed into someone.)

I certainly didn't admit to anything, sign anything or ever declare fault. I was just handed a ticket - my understanding is that accepting a ticket is not admitting to anything but that if you refuse to take it, they can arrest you.

Originally Posted by KimInNY

On the other hand several hundred ofer the corse of a few years isnt the same as a few thousand (like here in ny) so maby it wont be that bad as long as you dont plan to change companies in the next 5 years.

The total will probably cost me a little under $1000 if I decide to just pay the ticket and accept fault, that's why I'm trying to figure out what my chances are with going to court and what the costs would be if I were to go and lose. I've read through the Ohio code and found the section on backing up:

4511.38
(A) No person shall start a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley which is stopped, standing, or parked until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.

Before backing, operators of vehicle, streetcars, or trackless trolleys shall give ample warning, and while backing they shall exercise vigilance not to injure person or property on the street or highway.

I think it could be argued that backing slowly and cautiously and watching behind you would constitute exercising vigilance not to injure person or property, but I'm not sure. Also, my ticket indicates a local ordinance related to "improper backing" rather than the state code. Where can I find a copy of the local ordinance as it doesn't seem to be online? I'm clueless about these sorts of legal things :-)

Also, thanks for all the replies!

[KimInNY]

hey, you can argue the ticket, without a lawyer, when you answer it.
That will probably cost you nothing. how backing into your driveway is improper i dont know, but you say you were cautious not to hit anyone and you didnt. so I think you have a case.

did the officer also give you a accident report that you were backing into your driveway when hit by OV? (other vehicle)

While in more serious accidents its right to call the cops, and while the cop did kinda say he would issue a citation, you should have handled it between the two insurance companies who have really good investigators, and probably would have found the fault to be a precent, which will come up on his license too, at least. and no fighting a ticket issued friviously by a cop who just wanted to not deal with this tiny fender bender.


let me know what you decide and how it works out, it will be alot of trubble and may or may not be worth it. Who knows.

[ecmst12]

What specifically were you ticketed for?

[Tallrat]

When you go to pay the ticket, explain to magistrate the conditions and he may reduce it so it doesn't effect your insurance. My wife about 7 yrs ago tried pulling out of a parking lot where snow was piled 7 ft high. She was inching out into road when a kid came around the bend. He could have avoided but panicked and hit breaks and hit. Technically wife was at fault but because of conditions (High snow) and the extreme curve in the road he lessened it quit a bit.

[jeanied]

Thanks again to all of you for your replies. You're definitely helping me feel a little better about all this.

The police report is not yet complete and filed so I haven't been able to get a copy yet, but I'm working on it. I would assume that our written statements will appear in the report and I clearly stated in there that I was backing into my driveway at the time and since the officer didn't discuss any discrepancies with us after we gave him our statements, I'm assuming the other driver said the same thing.

I called the cops because I've always heard it is safer to have a police report so that the other party can't later claim that you hit him and then left the scene or caused far more damage than you did, etc. In this case, the fact that the officer came and by law had to cite someone did end up working against me, but I still think in the future I would call the police - I guess that's just been ingrained in me as the right thing to do.

Specifically, I was cited for "Improper Backing" and the local ordinance regarding backing up was listed on the ticket. I haven't yet been able to get a copy of the local law, but I'm working on it and I would assume it will be the same as or similar to the state law which says that when backing, you must exercise vigilance not to cause damage to property or persons. If the local law says basically the same thing, I would think that looking for oncoming traffic, backing slowly and watching in the rearview mirror would constitute exercising vigilance (in fact, I did these things to keep from driving on the neighbor's lawn which starts at the edge of my driveway). This accident seems to me to entirely be the result of 2 things - the other driver waiting to brake (which he stated to the police officer - he didn't brake earlier because he thought we would be out of the way) and the extreme slickness of the road which kept him from stopping in time when he slammed his brakes.

As a side note on the slickness of the road - a friend just had her street treated yesterday and said that she drove down the road while the workers were still present. She said as soon as she entered the road (which is allowed - they don't close them while working) a worker immediately flagged her down and told her that the treatment causes the road to be "very, very slick" and that she needed to drive slowly and carefully. Should I get a signed statement from her that this occurred? It seems like if workers are giving such strong warnings but then not putting up any sort of signage when they leave a few minutes later - there might be some fault there?

I have heard from other people that at the very least they would expect the judge to lessen the charge and allow me to plead guilty to that. While that would probably lessen the fine and maybe keep points off my license (Improper backing = 2 points), I'm not sure it would help with my insurance rates. Basically my insurance said that because I was cited, they aren't going to fight anything and will be paying 100% to the other party. I think this is why they are encouraging me to fight because if the ticket is thrown out, they pay 0% instead.

I'm going to make a few calls around the city today to try and get the local law that I was cited for violating as well as find out about the court costs. A friend said he received a ticket for making an improper turn and even though he paid it in advance (no court appearance) he still paid $100 in court costs, so maybe fighting won't cost more than just accepting guilt - we'll see.

[ecmst12]

I would plead not guilty and go to court. I don't think you were backing up improperly and I think the officer knows it. He might even choose not to show up in court, meaning you win by default. Honestly I think the other guy should have been cited for failure to maintain control. The slick road is not the cause - the other driver's inability to compensate for poor road conditions is.

[jeanied]

Originally Posted by ecmst12

I would plead not guilty and go to court. I don't think you were backing up improperly and I think the officer knows it. He might even choose not to show up in court, meaning you win by default. Honestly I think the other guy should have been cited for failure to maintain control. The slick road is not the cause - the other driver's inability to compensate for poor road conditions is.

I'm beginning to lean this way - I called the court to get some more information and they were somewhat helpful. They told me that:

If I don't pay the fine within 7 days, I have to appear on my arraignment date (a couple weeks out) and if I plead guilty, the judge will consider the case, my record, etc. and set his own fine which could be more, less, or equal to what I would pay if I paid early ($200)

Pleading not guilty and going to trial will not cost me more than just paying now (court costs are included in the $200 so no way to get out of it which also means, really, no downside to fighting it)

I asked if I plead not guilty, if only I was allowed to present arguments or if I could bring family members who were on the scene and were witnesses but who were not involved. They told me that this is a trial issue that will be decided during pre-trial. They also said things like this depend on what motions I file, etc. To be honest, I didn't realize it was this complicated...are you sure I can handle this without an attorney?

I asked if they could provide me a copy of the law that I was cited for breaking and they said no, I would need to get a copy from a library or the police. I'd rather get it from the library than the police if possible (wouldn't it be weird if the person helping me get a copy of the law at the police station was the officer who wrote the ticket? I don't want to be on any officer's list!)

I feel pretty good about this case, but I know there are lots of complexities in the legal system and I don't want to screw up because I didn't file some papers or something - can someone walk me through what happens? I tried to ask the person at the courthouse but they seemed to be getting annoyed with my questions...

[ecmst12]

The statute number should be on the ticket, just google that number and your state and you should be able to find it. Most states have their laws available online now.

[jeanied]

Originally Posted by ecmst12

The statute number should be on the ticket, just google that number and your state and you should be able to find it. Most states have their laws available online now.

It is, but it is a local ordinance, so I'm going to swing by the library and see if I can get a photocopy of it tonight as it isn't online anywhere.

[jeanied]

Hi All,

Just wanted to update you as I finally tracked down the law. I now have everything except the police report and I'm preparing my statements for traffic court with the hopes of getting this thing thrown out or at least reduced.

I'm hoping you can help me out with a few questions, but first, the law. There are 3 basic parts to the statute I was cited for breaking:

1) Before starting, it must be reasonably safe to do so.
2) Before backing you must give ample warning
3) While backing you must exercise vigilance not to cause damage to persons or property.

I think it makes sense given the setup that I've already described (cars behind me stopped to let me back up, cars coming other direction were several hundred feet away, I backed slowly and carefully watched in my mirrors while doing so) that I did not violate this law. However, I'm wondering what sort of arguments the judge or officer may give.

The only thing I can think of is that, they'll argue this is the same as making a left turn, where if there is any oncoming traffic regardless of the distance away, it is not "reasonably safe" to make the turn and if you are hit by someone, no matter what the circumstances you are always at fault. Could they try to argue that this is essentially the same situation - it is not reasonably safe to back into your driveway if there is any traffic on the road?

What do you guys think, given the law?

Thanks again for all your help!