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  1. #1
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    motorcycles stolen from apt. garage

    What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Nebraska

    My cousin and I had both of our motorcycles stolen from us from inside our apt. garage. There is security cameras and paid security guards within the building and garage. The apt. management informed us that the cameras do not operate on sundays(which is the day they were stolen) since nobody works in the office on sudays to replace the tapes, and that the guards did not see anything. Both bikes were locked up and you need key access to get into garage but not out. Is the apt. complex liable for our loss?
    Plus, contacting the police dept., they will not start investigating our case for up to 5 days, due to slow paper processing. I'm sure the bikes will be long gone by then if not already. All investigating has been done by myself and cousin, we have collected all the evidence we could at the time and have relayed that information to the p.d. But, there isn't even a case # on this, only a reference #. The p.d. stated that an investigator will contact us within 5 to 7 days, but the apt. complex reported to us and the p.d. that they have a suspect, but no one from the p.d. has made any effort to contact this person to interigate. I realize that our motorcycles are probably not a "top priority" for them but is obviously to me (only having liability). Can the local p.d. be liable as well for not responding to our case promptly? Both bikes are appraise at over $10,000.
    Last edited by stolenr1; 07-20-2005 at 03:39 PM.
  2. #2
    teflon_jones is offline Senior Member
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    You have a $10,000+ motorcycle with only liability?

    Has it been 5-7 days? Your case is not the only one the police are investigating. Give them a little time. If there's a suspect, they'll get to questioning them when they have time.

    The apt complex is not liable for the actions of a 3rd party acting illegally. Only the person that stole the motorcycles is liable.
  3. #3
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    bikes stolen from apt. garage

    So eventhough there was "24 hour" security in place and that I paid for this service within my rent, the apt. company is not liable? I understand that the third party acting illegally is liable but there is no accountability of the apt. complex?? My bike was intrusted with this service.

    Police responding to this 5 to 7 days after the incident is ridiculous. I'm sure if $20,000 cash was stolen from a location the authorities would be acting alot quicker. I feel that the p.d. was relying on me to have my insurance pay for my loss so that less could be done on their part. Just like everyone else, I pay taxes for a service. A service to be protected and for help in times of distress.

    I didn't have full coverage due to the fact that for a 25 year old male with a sportbike runs approx. $3500 a year. To me, that is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for something that I have enjoyed all of my life. I realize that I was "apparently" taking a risk by only having liability, but paying the rent price that I am "was my full coverage."
  4. #4
    stephenk is offline Senior Member
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    "The apt complex is not liable for the actions of a 3rd party acting illegally. Only the person that stole the motorcycles is liable"

    Not true every time. If the apartment is advertising as a secured complex with security garage and security guard, the fact that they turn off the cameras on Sunday may be enough to make them pay for the stolen bikes.

    the poster should make a claim with the apartment's insurance carrier due to the negligent security system set-up. I doubt the complex told its tenants that the security camera was just a prop on Sundays.
    Cal Naughton, Jr.: I like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger.
  5. #5
    teflon_jones is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenk
    Not true every time. If the apartment is advertising as a secured complex with security garage and security guard, the fact that they turn off the cameras on Sunday may be enough to make them pay for the stolen bikes.

    the poster should make a claim with the apartment's insurance carrier due to the negligent security system set-up. I doubt the complex told its tenants that the security camera was just a prop on Sundays.
    As you allude to, an important point is how this security is advertised or represented to the tenants of the complex. Based on the OP's first post, I saw no reason to suggest that they are anything other than a standard security office with limited liability. But this is worth looking into.

    There's no harm in making a claim with their carrier, but I'd be prepared for it to be denied. If the OP had full insurance they'd have better luck with this since their carrier would find it in their best interest to go after the carrier of the apt complex's policy. Without retaining a private attorney of his own, the OP is going to have a tough time with this one.

    EDIT: I don't know why the heck I didn't mention this before either, but you need to check what your lease says!
    Last edited by teflon_jones; 07-22-2005 at 10:49 AM.
  6. #6
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    thanks for the advice. It is very much appreciated, this is a great service you people are providing. I will definetly examine my lease very cafefully and look into how our complex is advertised before exploring any legal action.

    thanks again, and love the movie quote, "America, #u%$ Ya!"
  7. #7
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    I checked the lease and it states:

    INDEMNIFACTION : Tenant will indemnify and save Landlord harmless from and against all claims,actions, damages, liability and expenses in connection with loss of life,personal injury, and/or damage to property, arising from any act of omission of Tenant, his agent, family, employees, occupants, servants, guests or invitees, pets or licensees.

    SUBROGATION : Each party hereto waives all claims for recovery from the other party for any loss or damage to any of its property insured under vaild and collectible insurance policies to the extent of any recovery collectible under such insurance, subject to the limitation that this waiver shall apply ony when permitted by the applicable policy of insurance.

    To me, this sounds like they have insurance for things like this. I have found an ad for my complex that states "secured parking" and video survailance.

    Is it time to get a lawyer, or is this something I can persue on my own, or does the above make them unliable for what happened. If so, where do I go from here.
  8. #8
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Do you know whether the security guards are employed by the complex or come from an outside company?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  9. #9
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    The security guards are employed by an outside company that is hired by our building.
  10. #10
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolenr1
    The security guards are employed by an outside company that is hired by our building.
    Oh, that's not good.

    If memory serves, Nebraska, like NY, is pretty strict about third-party beneficiaries. And if this is an outside security company, you, as a resident, are almost certainly going to be considered a TPB. That means the security company can only be held liable to the company it contracted with, the complex, and not you. Of course, not only does this hinge on the contract between the security company and the complex, but on Nebraska law as well, which I readily admit, I am not 100% on, and do not have the time now to research it. You ought to speak to a NE attorney before you go ranting and raving to the management office.
    Last edited by You Are Guilty; 07-27-2005 at 02:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  11. #11
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    the apt. complex's security camera's, I believe are owned by the complex. Only reason I make this assuption, is because after the incident, they informed me that they were going to have a meeting concerning there security system. Since there cameras are of such low quality, and actually run out of tape on Sundays, and replace them with a higher quality system. Sucks to me as the example to prompt this. It was funny cause when we approached them to see the tapes, they were scrolling through all the different cameras and the manager even stated to me that "you can't even make out people's faces, and the times on the cameras are all messed up, you kinda of have to guess what time it is that the camera's are displaying."

    The apt. complex's security guards are of a seperate company. The manager of the building reported to me before this all went down that they were having trouble with these guards actually doing there job due to a change in management. But from what I am gathering at this point, more than likely this security company probably has an agreement with the apt. complex that makes them not liable for stolen property or what ever happens at the building and garages. The guards are horrible at their jobs (obviously) and have become known as nothing more as a joke.

    Basically, I'm guessing I just need to seek an attorney and hope for the best. I just can't believe that something as ridiculous as this, company's and businesses having no liability and rely on victim's insurance companies to pay for everything. No wonder rates are unreasonable.

    So the security co. is the first step?

    No disrespect, but what the hell is a TPB?
  12. #12
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    TPB = third party beneficiary, and you can bet that the security company's contract disclaims liability for any theft/vandalism while they are working. (Can you tell I do a lot of work defending security companies? )

    If the camera system is either owned or was installed by virtue of the complex's "plan" (as opposed to the security company's), you still may be able to hang some liability on them. Since you'll never be able to get a copy of the contract they have with the security company without a lawyer (and probably a lawsuit too), it's probably time to speak to a lawyer. Look for one who specializes in premises liability, and see what their take on this situation is. It may be more beneficial for you to pursue it in small claims rather than with an attorney.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  13. #13
    stolenr1 is offline Junior Member
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    thanks again for everyones advice, very much appreciated, wish you all well....

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