My Dealer forgot to put engine oil - messed up the engine

[blooski]

I do not think many people landed in the situation that I am in right now. I bought a new Infinity FX35 5 months back, nice car, enjoying and loving it.
I took it for my first Oil change last Monday to the Dealer. The dealer said they changed the oil, and washed my car. I then drove home.
My place is about 40 miles from the dealer. After reaching home I switched off the engine to open the garage and when pulling into the garage I noticed the "Low Engine oil pressure" and “Service Engine Soon” I was concerned and thought to myself, may be they forgot to reset.
I called the service guy at the dealer who said, may be we forget to set the computer, should not be a problem; bring it I will take a look at it.
Next day when I started the engine I kept hearing this loud noise, and then I was worried and drove it to another Infiniti dealer that is nearby place.
Those guys looked at the oil level and were stunned to find out that there was no oil. I explained them the whole story, they said probably the tech. FORGOT to put the ENGINE OIL after he drained it.
Then I called my dealer and got my car towed it over there. They put the engine oil and said did a thorough check and now they are trying to CONVINCE me that there are no problems with the engine. They are going to document and give me a letter that if anything happens they will take care of it.
I talked to some mechanics and every one of them said that my ENGINE is toast and the life of the engine is gone
I told the DEALER to either put a NEW ENGINE or give me a NEW CAR. After haggling with me for a week they gave me an offer but I have to pay $6000 because it is a 2008 car (mine was a 2007) and I have to pay a 5.9%, where as my current rate is 1.9%. They are telling me that is their final offer.
WHAT SHOULD I DO? I thought of going to small claims, but in Florida it is limited to $5, 000. Is it worth hiring an attorney, would anybody even be interested considering the money is not that much ($7,000 - $8,000?)
Appreciate any suggestions.What is the name of your state?

 

[justalayman]

it is very difficult to quantify any possible damage. Without tearing the engine down, it is near impossible to determine if there is any damage unless the damage is so severe there are constant sounds or such to indicate a problem.

I find it hard to believe you did not notice the oil pressure light on long before getting home as it should have never gone off. Once you discovered it was on, it was then your reponsibility to cause no further damage. There is no resetting to a "low oil pressure" indicator. It is what it is.

Unless you want to spend as much in investigative fees to prove there is damage and with the possibility there is no measurable damage even then, I would suggest you take what you believe to be the best deal and live with it.

 

[alnorth]

They put the engine oil and said did a thorough check and now they are trying to CONVINCE me that there are no problems with the engine. They are going to document and give me a letter that if anything happens they will take care of it.

Were they basically going to give you a warranty on the engine for the life of the car? This almost reads that way. If that was the case, its hard to expect much more from them than that. I dont believe you are entitled to a brand-new car, and if they simply tell the judge that they were willing to give you a lifetime warranty on the engine but you refused, you could have a problem.

 

[ecmst12]

Tell them you don't want a new car, you want a new engine, and you should pay $0 for it.

 

[fairisfair]

it is very difficult to quantify any possible damage. Without tearing the engine down, it is near impossible to determine if there is any damage unless the damage is so severe there are constant sounds or such to indicate a problem.

I find it hard to believe you did not notice the oil pressure light on long before getting home as it should have never gone off. Once you discovered it was on, it was then your reponsibility to cause no further damage. There is no resetting to a "low oil pressure" indicator. It is what it is.Unless you want to spend as much in investigative fees to prove there is damage and with the possibility there is no measurable damage even then, I would suggest you take what you believe to be the best deal and live with it.

Yes, but in all fairness, is he REALLY supposed to know that ? I mean if we all knew everything about our cars would we be taking them to a mechanic???

 

[justalayman]

I suggest it is in EVERY owners manual printed (at least for cars that have such an idiot light in use).

At first I thought you were being sarcastic, fair, but then after re-reading it, I began thinking you are serious. So, lets have a few lessons on cars.

The low oil pressure light does not come on when it is time to change the oil. It comes on when there is low oil pressure and just like when a person has 0 blood pressure, they die.

The OP would have noticed the light on BEFORE taking it in if the scenario he posted were correct. I highly doubt it was on. I suspect it only showed up AFTER the oil change. That should turned on that little "hhmm, something is different" light bulb over his head.

I mean, I am not a doctor but I know if my toe falls off, there is something wrong and I need to get it looked at. Sometimes common sense has to step in and lend a hand.

Let me take that back. I have met too many people that do not have enough common sense to realize that their toe fell off and they need to see a doc. They must be thinking, "hey, my shoe is a bit looser than it used to be" and "I was wondering why I got a 10% discount when I had a pedicure".

where is that damn smiley banging his head on the wall when you need it?????

 

[ecmst12]

OP not noticing the oil light right away does NOT relieve the dealership of liabilty for their GROSS NEGLIGENCE in forgetting to put oil in the car.

 

[justalayman]

true but the dealership, in defense of the extent of the damages, will prove that a reasonable man would have understood the light meant to do something other than keep driving. In that case, OP failed to mitigate their damages and became culpable.

I believe that under the reasonable man standard, OP would not have driven the car off the lot of the dealership and therefore would have sustained little or no damage.

On top of this, trying to determine and quantify the damages is nearly impossible, or at least, prohibitively expensive.

You can;t simply walk into court and say, " they left my oil out so I deserve a new engine". The defendants attorney will tear him apart. You have to be able to prove your damages.

 

[fairisfair]

I suggest it is in EVERY owners manual printed (at least for cars that have such an idiot light in use).

At first I thought you were being sarcastic, fair, but then after re-reading it, I began thinking you are serious. So, lets have a few lessons on cars.

The low oil pressure light does not come on when it is time to change the oil. It comes on when there is low oil pressure and just like when a person has 0 blood pressure, they die.

The OP would have noticed the light on BEFORE taking it in if the scenario he posted were correct. I highly doubt it was on. I suspect it only showed up AFTER the oil change. That should turned on that little "hhmm, something is different" light bulb over his head.

I mean, I am not a doctor but I know if my toe falls off, there is something wrong and I need to get it looked at. Sometimes common sense has to step in and lend a hand.

Let me take that back. I have met too many people that do not have enough common sense to realize that their toe fell off and they need to see a doc. They must be thinking, "hey, my shoe is a bit looser than it used to be" and "I was wondering why I got a 10% discount when I had a pedicure".

where is that damn smiley banging his head on the wall when you need it?????

I am hardly an idiot, and I don't appreciate you insinuating that I might be.

Having one's appendages drop off is hardly the same as a dash light coming on, particulary if one has just had the vehicle worked on and the mechanic is telling you that they must have forgotten to reset it. and thanks for the car lesson, however I manage quite well on my own.

 

[justalayman]

I am hardly an idiot, and I don't appreciate you insinuating that I might be.

Having one's appendages drop off is hardly the same as a dash light coming on, particulary if one has just had the vehicle worked on and the mechanic is telling you that they must have forgotten to reset it. and thanks for the car lesson, however I manage quite well on my own.

I did not mean to infer anything of the sort and my apologies if it came across as such.

I was simply trying to impress the fact that the light would not have been on prior to the oill change and now it is. OP should have questioned it then rather than driving it any real distance.

AAhhh! I get it. The idiot comment.

In the mechanics world, a light used in place of a gauge is often called an "idiot light" because it is idiot proof where a gauge requires a little understanding of what the readings mean.

 

[blooski]

true but the dealership, in defense of the extent of the damages, will prove that a reasonable man would have understood the light meant to do something other than keep driving. In that case, OP failed to mitigate their damages and became culpable.

I believe that under the reasonable man standard, OP would not have driven the car off the lot of the dealership and therefore would have sustained little or no damage.

On top of this, trying to determine and quantify the damages is nearly impossible, or at least, prohibitively expensive.

You can;t simply walk into court and say, " they left my oil out so I deserve a new engine". The defendants attorney will tear him apart. You have to be able to prove your damages.

I see where you are coming from. Here is how my thinking goes:
I did not notice the light immediately.
After I noticed the light, I looked up the manual, which said stop the car and take it to the dealer. In this case I followed the manual and took it to the NEAREST dealer. The tech at this dealership checked and told me that there was no oil in the engine.
What do you think I should have done? When I called the original service rep he actually asked me to DRIVE the car back 35 miles so that he can check it out.
If I put the engine oil myself then I am totally screwed (the dealership would say nothing wrong and I would have lost the evidence ), that’s why I got it towed to the original dealership
The advice from the manual and the service rep are assuming that nothing bad happened and the MAINTENANCE was done normally. Setting aside these arguments, how should I resolve this issue?
Am I supposed to lose my engine say in 5 years and pay for a new one?
I was trying to resolve the issue with the dealership by highlighting their NEGLIGENCE and appealing to "do the right thing to the customer", "reputation of your dealership"
Do you think it is worth their time and money to hire an attorney if I bring a case instead of resolving it amicably with me?
I was hoping for some suggestions. I am Ok if you want to point to any stupidity on part; I need to get this RESOLVED, any suggestions

 

[blooski]

Tell them you don't want a new car, you want a new engine, and you should pay $0 for it.

I did they do not want to do it. They are claiming that the engine is OK. They will document the problem and if anything happens they will take care of it. they are not giving me warranty on the engine for life of the car.

 

[CraigFL]

This has to be some kind of shared responsibility. While the dealer is neglient for not putting the oil in, everyone should know that the oil pressure idiot light coming on doesn't mean drive to the safest spot or home or to the nearest dealer. It means shut the engine off immediately or severe damage will occur. Because of dashboard warnings like this, every driver must be aware of the consequences of not monitoring things like this while driving.

If there was zero oil and the engine would have been shut off immediately after the light came on, there would probably be no damage. The fact that it was making noises like you say and it was probably driven for some time, there most likely is significant damage.

It would be interesting to know if there was ANY oil in the system when they opened the drain plug.

The dealer's offer sounds fair if the engine sounds good again after adding oil. I would also recommend an oil testing service every 5K mikes as part of the agreement to be sure the engine is doing OK. These oil testing services analyze the oil and metal particles in the oil to let you know if there is significant wear and where it is coming from.

 

[justalayman]

:
I did not notice the light immediately.
After I noticed the light, I looked up the manual, which said stop the car and take it to the dealer.

Aha! The eureka moment. It said stop the car and take it to a dealer. Where did it say to restart the car?

sorry, just being mean. Not meaning to infer anybody is an idiot or stupid. We all have our forte`s in life. Some folks just aren;t in the mechanical arena.

craigfl's suggestion:

The dealer's offer sounds fair if the engine sounds good again after adding oil. I would also recommend an oil testing service every 5K mikes as part of the agreement to be sure the engine is doing OK. These oil testing services analyze the oil and metal particles in the oil to let you know if there is significant wear and where it is coming from.

sounds to be the least expensive and most beneficial for the buck. Mabe you can get the dealer to commit to the cost of the testing. It is difficult to measure any damage that has been done so it is very difficult to grab a number of how much value the damage represents of how long, if at all, you will have problems because of the situation.

You can also have a mechanic insert an optical scope into the cylinders to look for scoring or burned pistons but much of the damaged parts would not be visible by any means short of engine dissassembly, which I don;t think the dealership is going to go for. Maybe the dealership would foot the bill on this as well.

So, there are a few things that you can do to check things out but they are limited in what they can tell you.

It appears Infiniti has a 6 year 70k mile powertrain warranty and there is an available extended warranty. If you do not have that and if it can still be applied to your car, maybe you can get the dealership to cover that.

This next suggestion is what you can try if you are not happy with anything offered:

call the Infiniti corporate rep for the area. While a dealership is an independent company and not typically bound by suggestions by the manufacturer, dealerships can be pressured into actions sometimes in the name of company reputation. Who knows. If nothing else is working, maybe worth a shot.

 

[Bruno]

My View

My philosophical view would be as follows: Let's assume the oil was fine but you parked your car in front of a 7-11 store. A hit-and-run drunk hits and totals your car. The insurance company only pays you the bluebook value, which is probably $6K less than what you paid. I would swallow the $6K and get a 2008 model.

P.S. Although nothing has been officially released by Nissan Motor Co, rumors are that the 2009 Infiniti FX will be completely redesigned and offered as the FX37 and the FX50.