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$6,000 on my deceased fathers debit card

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greggers

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? california

my father was renting a room at christinas room and board, he passed away there on january 15th 2016,
christina who runs this board and care has used my dads debit card chargin the card for rent in febuary, march, april, the charges are sq* meaning she plugs a device into her cell phon eand swipes the card.

i have my fathers transaction history and she has used his debit card to pay her electric bill, her gas bill, her phone bill, cable t.v bill, court fines, etc.. she has charged over $6,000 in transactions, macys, starbucks reloadable cards, el pollo loco, car washes, nail salons, movie theaters, also she has made several $500 withdraws ...

so i file a police report, police tell me theres no victim, i have several california supreme court rulings that state identity theft is a crime whether they victim is living or deceased. she broke the law period..

i also have a voice mail recording between christina and the assistant manager , they called my phone , they thought the call ended but when to voicemail,
she clearly states,"its not like i didnt know what i was doing was wrong,i just wanna pay him off and give him back the money ,so he wont file charges, her stating that sehs never been in trouble , and doesnt want to get in trouble now, saying hopefully i wont press charges, etc..

police fail to arrest her, help
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? california

my father was renting a room at christinas room and board, he passed away there on january 15th 2016,
christina who runs this board and care has used my dads debit card chargin the card for rent in febuary, march, april, the charges are sq* meaning she plugs a device into her cell phon eand swipes the card.

i have my fathers transaction history and she has used his debit card to pay her electric bill, her gas bill, her phone bill, cable t.v bill, court fines, etc.. she has charged over $6,000 in transactions, macys, starbucks reloadable cards, el pollo loco, car washes, nail salons, movie theaters, also she has made several $500 withdraws ...

so i file a police report, police tell me theres no victim, i have several california supreme court rulings that state identity theft is a crime whether they victim is living or deceased. she broke the law period..

i also have a voice mail recording between christina and the assistant manager , they called my phone , they thought the call ended but when to voicemail,
she clearly states,"its not like i didnt know what i was doing was wrong,i just wanna pay him off and give him back the money ,so he wont file charges, her stating that sehs never been in trouble , and doesnt want to get in trouble now, saying hopefully i wont press charges, etc..

police fail to arrest her, help
I would not call that identity theft, I would call it flat out theft. She flat out stole money from your father's estate. I would go right back to the police again on this and make it clear that she stole money from your father's estate, and that she was not an heir or anything like that, she was just his landlord. If you do not get anywhere, ask for a supervisor.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
What were the values of the transactions?

Part of the problem is that if the transactions were less than $950, it was petty theft. Prior to November 2014 EACH separate fraudulent transaction would be a felony no matter the value. Since November of 2014, these are individual misdemeanors. A misdemeanor not committed in the presence of the officers becomes more complicated without a "victim." Yes, it is possible that the police could write a report and submit it to the DA. You might consider contacting the police and work your way up the food chain (i.e. the rank structure) until you can get a hold of someone who will either take action or explain whey they cannot.

However, in most counties in CA misdemeanor property crimes are on the back burner due to scarce resources. It may well be that due to the nature of the offense, and the need for a LOT of follow-up to even make this prosecutable (including subpoenas and, more than likely, search warrants), the police have concluded that this is not a case they can pursue. It may be laziness, or, it may simply be an unfortunate expression of the truth. I have worked very similar cases since Proposition 47 was passed, and they resulted in no prosecution for precisely the reasons I have outlined.

You can thank the voters of CA and their infinite wisdom for converting these offenses to misdemeanors and, in essence, quasi-legalizing larceny in the state.

Now, if any of the individual transactions was for $950 or more, then there would be a felony and that could be pursued more easily.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Greggers, are you the administrator of your father estate in probate court? If not you do not represent your father's estate and as such, simply a bystander making a report of what you believe is a crime. While we all know it is likely to be criminal, you are not in s position to file a complaint unless you are the estate administrator. Unless you are the administrator you have no legal right to have the informstion you have. It could be that the police see your report as simply somebody that thinks their inheritance is being taken with no proof it is illegal.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Greggers, are you the administrator of your father estate in probate court? If not you do not represent your father's estate and as such, simply a bystander making a report of what you believe is a crime. While we all know it is likely to be criminal, you are not in s position to file a complaint unless you are the estate administrator. Unless you are the administrator you have no legal right to have the informstion you have. It could be that the police see your report as simply somebody that thinks their inheritance is being taken with no proof it is illegal.
^^^ This is probably a huge part of the equation. Greggers lacks standing to be a victim, and while everyone knows this was likely larceny, it becomes harder to prove.
 

Chyvan

Member
used my dads debit card
You're wasting your time going after Christina. You need to report to the bank the unauthorized debit card transactions. Some of them may still be current enough that the bank will refund the money, and when a bank takes a loss, they have a lot more leverage to get Christina in trouble with the law than you do.

Your main concern should be getting the money back, and let the bank (who is really going to be taking the loss) worry about what happens to Christina.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
hello why didnt my last reply go up, i spent like 20 minutes writing it


I know the preview function used to eat first posts. Haven't heard of it eating any posts after that.

If you included any links (internet stuff) or a few other items it could be being held for review by the administration before allowing it to post
 

greggers

Junior Member
yes, i included a few links.. there is alot more to this than i originally shared, my father died as a direct result of christinas neglence, she wanted him to die and she let him die.. i hope it gets reviewed quick , if not ill just post again
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
yes, i included a few links.. there is alot more to this than i originally shared, my father died as a direct result of christinas neglence, she wanted him to die and she let him die.. i hope it gets reviewed quick , if not ill just post again
It can be exceedingly difficult (almost impossible) to prove homicide by neglect. You may want to consider consulting an attorney to see if there is a possible civil suit, but, you'll need more than ill will and speculation. Hopefully there was an autopsy. If not, was there an attending physician who signed off on death by natural causes?

Absent PROOF of neglect, that's a no go as well.
 

greggers

Junior Member
this is basically a letter i was going to use , explains a lil more

Rights & duties of Property owners
A property owner's duty of care is clear. She, her agents, and employees must keep the property safe for visitors. That duty is breached when the owner allows dangerous conditions to exist on the property.
To win a premises liability claim, the cause of injury must have been foreseeable by the property owner. If the danger was known, and the owner did nothing about it, he can be held liable for any resulting injuries.

Christina, the day my father passed away i was in your home, i asked you , why didn’t you call me yesterday, the day before, 2 days ago, last week and let me know my father was sick..
You said that my father did not look sick, he did not seem sick, he showed no signs of being sick, etc… you said people just die without any signs of being sick…( i have sworn witness statements confirming this & they will testify in court)..you are a liar christina , the fact is my father came to you several times and said he was sick and had asked you to take him to the hospital (you refused), my father came to you several times and had asked you to call the paramedics to take him to the hospital (you refused), he even came to you and had told you something in the room he was staying in is making him very sick...he asked you to be taken out of the room he was in and be put in a room that was vacant, (again you refused)

You refused to take him to the hospital, you refused to call the paramedics, you refused him when he asked to be put in another room there was nobody in..not only did my father ask you , other tennants came to you and talked to you telling you that my father is very sick and he needs to be taken to the hospital..and other tennants told you to put him in another room, be taken out of the room he was in and be put in a room that nobody was in.. again you said no…(again i have sworn witness statements, & will testify in court)

The fact is christina that two prior tennants that both stayed in the same room my father stayed in, they got sick in the same room didn’t they, even were admitted to the hospital.. and you were well aware of this.. respiratory problems is what the paperwork said.. ( the coroner says that respiratory heart failure is the cause of death

What you did christina is let my father die, you were in fact using his debit card after he died, and while he was alive.. i have his bank statements & records to prove this.. you in fact knew he was sick, i have witness statements that the last month before my father died he got sicker and sicker , i really don’t have to explain anything… you know what happened, and you watched him become sicker & sicker and did nothing , just let him die so you could get away with what you did

Also i want you to know that either you or your boyfriend called my cell phone, i guess you thought you hung up but it went to my voice mail..
Here are some of the things you both are saying:
Your boyfriend starts by saying, “damit stop it really, why are u acting like that,
Then you saying you don’t want to go to jail , he says your not gonna go to jail
Him saying you think your gonna go to jail
You saying you wanna give me back the money,
You telling him , im glad your not nervous, that you just wanna pay me off, you saying like its not like i didn’t know what i was doing was wrong
Him asking you what number are you dialing, you saying my phone number
Him saying the bank isnt gonna do an investigation, its up to him
You saying you just wanna pay him off
You saying your shaking and you just wanna throw up, that you wont have no peace until we work it out with him
And theres a lot more, im sure you remember
Both of you implicated yourself.. you made this call on your own free will, and is admissable in court
 

greggers

Junior Member
UNITED STATES v. LaFAIVE

Anna LaFaive assumed the identity of her deceased sister, opened checking accounts in her name using counterfeited checks, and withdrew nearly $65,000 before being apprehended. A jury convicted her of two counts of bank fraud and two counts of aggravated identity theft. On appeal, LaFaive challenges her conviction under 18 U.S.C. § 1028A for aggravated identity theft and takes issue with the procedure used by the district court in calculating her sentence
LaFaive made purchases totaling nearly $5,000 at a GameStop and Best Buy from these new checking accounts. She also withdrew $60,000 in cash from a Fifth Third Bank in Ohio. Authorities eventually found LaFaive living in Harper Woods, Michigan, where she was arrested in late June 2007.

II. Analysis

LaFaive argues that she cannot be convicted of aggravated identity theft under § 1028A because that statute does not criminalize the use of a deceased person's identity. She also argues that the district court improperly considered the factors in 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a) to enhance her sentence before adding the mandatory 24-month consecutive sentence under § 1028A(a)(1) to the total guideline calculation. We consider each argument in turn.

Section 1028A(a) provides:

(1) In general.-Whoever, during and in relation to any felony violation enumerated in subsection (c), knowingly transfers, possesses, or uses, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such felony, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 2 years.

[T]he adjectives “living” and “deceased” may both properly be used to narrow, that is to make more specific, the meaning of the noun “person.” The word “person” thus encompasses both the living and the deceased, and each of such persons possesses an identity which is susceptible to misappropriation. It is reasonable to assume that Congress considered it unnecessary to distinguish between theft of the identity of a deceased person as opposed to a living person because the word “person” is broad enough to cover both.

We agree that the common usage of the word “person” includes both living and deceased individuals. Because there is nothing in § 1028A(a)(1) that would naturally limit the definition of “person” to just the living, cf. Maciel-Alcala, 2010 WL 2836992, at *6 (noting that the use of “person” in § 1028A(b) is limited to living persons, not because of the definition of the word “person,” but because the rest of the language of that provision logically limits its application to living persons), we conclude that the provision's prohibition on using the identification of “another person” includes the identification of both living and deceased persons.
we agree with the other circuits that have concluded that limiting “person” in subsection (a)(2) to a living person works an “illogical,” “absurd,” and “nonsensical” result. See Maciel-Alcala, 2010 WL 2836992, at *6; Kowal, 527 F.3d at 747; Jimenez, 507 F.3d at 20. Because the word “person” in subsection (a)(2) must include living and deceased persons, the word “person” in subsection (a)(1) must also include living and deceased persons.

We also note that we are not the only court to decide post-Flores-Figueroa that § 1028A covers the use of the identity of both living and deceased persons. See Maciel-Alcala, 2010 WL 2836992, at *6; United States v. Parks, Nos. H-06-226, H-09-1586, 2010 WL 1994186, at *7 n. 5 (S.D.Tex. May 17, 2010); United States v. Davis, No. 8:09-CR-0047, 2009 WL 1476459, at *3 n. 5 (N.D.N.Y. May 27, 2009).

Moreover, theft of a deceased person's identification is not a “victimless crime.” Id . at *8. As noted earlier, the plain language of § 1028A shows that Congress intended the statute to have broad coverage, and our conclusion that “person” includes both the living and deceased comports with that intention.

III. Conclusion

18 U.S.C. § 1028A(a)(1) criminalizes the misuse of another person's identity, whether that other person is living or deceased. The district court, therefore, did not plainly err in entering the jury's conviction of LaFaive for violating that statute. The district court also did not plainly err in calculating or imposing LaFaive's sentence. Accordingly, we Affirm LaFaive's conviction and sentence.
**********************************************************************...

United States v. Zuniga-Arteaga (May 21, 2012)

Graciela Zuniga-Arteaga appeals her conviction for aggravated identity theft, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1028A(a)(1). On appeal, Ms. Zuniga-Arteaga argues that § 1028A(a)(1) cannot be applied to her conduct because that provision does not cover the theft of a person s identity when that person is no longer living.

In December 2010, Ms. Zuniga-Arteaga waived a jury trial. She also filed a Motion for Judgment of Acquittal under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 29, arguing that § 1028A(a)(1) does not apply because MSG is deceased.

The bench trial was conducted on December 20, 2010. Nine days later, the district court filed its Bench Trial Verdict and Order Denying Motion for 4 Judgment of Acquittal, concluding that § 1028A(a)(1) applies to the identities of the dead, and convicting Ms. Zuniga-Arteaga on both counts of the indictment. On March 21, 2010,

Section 1028A(a)(1) states: In general. Whoever, during and in relation to any felony violation enumerated in subsection (c), knowingly transfers, possesses, or uses, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such felony, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 2 years. 18 U.S.C. § 1028A(a)(1) (emphasis added). Ms. Zuniga-Arteaga argues that the term person in the statute refers only to the living, and does not cover theft of the identity of a person who has died.

Though this issue is one of first 5 impression for this Court, we now follow four circuits in holding that § 1028A(a)(1) punishes theft of the identity of any actual person, regardless of whether that person is still alive.

18 U.S.C. § 1028(d)(4). 10 that Congress intended the term person in § 1028A to include both living and dead individuals. The statute s purpose supports this interpretation of § 1028A(a)(1). As the Ninth Circuit observed, like the theft of living persons identities, theft of [deceased persons ] identities is not a victimless crime.
 

greggers

Junior Member
Legal Issues Surrounding a Valid Wrongful Death Claim

Generally speaking, a valid wrongful death claim includes both causation and

liability on the part of the defendant. However, the law provides for elements

beyond causation and liability. These elements set forth the requirements for

pursuing a claim.

A valid wrongful death claim attempts to prove the following elements of liability:

Duty – Did the responsible party (the defendant) owe your loved one (the victim) a

duty to protect him or her from harm? ( YES OF COURSE SHE DID)

Breach of Duty – Did the defendant act negligently or fail to act in the manner

required or normally expected? (YES OF COURSE SHE DID)

Causation – Can the plaintiff prove that the defendant’s Breach of Duty resulted in

the injury or death of the victim? ( YES OF COURSE I CAN)

Damages – Did the above result in significant physical or financial harm, or in this

case, catastrophic injury or death? (YES FOR SURE)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
You said where he stayed was Christina's room and board.


Please explain what legal duty a proprietor of a room and board has to (pardon my bluntness) give a damn about the tenants, especiallly such that they had to take people to the hospital or call the paramedics or really just about anything else you claim she was obligated to do to help your father.

Where were you when all of this was happening? How long had it been since you visited or even spoke with your father?

Why do you believe the room is so important? Did he very recently move into that room? If not, why would the condition of prior tenants of that room be relevant?

Unless this was something beyond what the name of the place appears to suggest (a simple room and board home) you are wrong about her legal duties to your father. If that part of your claim fails, the entire claim fails.
 

greggers

Junior Member
landlord and manager of a room and board have the duty and responsibility to provide a safe environment for there tennants

Rights & duties of Property owners
A property owner's duty of care is clear. She, her agents, and employees must keep the property safe for visitors. That duty is breached when the owner allows dangerous conditions to exist on the property.
To win a premises liability claim, the cause of injury must have been foreseeable by the property owner. If the danger was known, and the owner did nothing about it, he can be held liable for any resulting injuries.

In general

Most of the landlord-tenant act requirements are rooted in common sense,

i think it is basic common sense, logic, & theory, that any landlord, or homeowner who resides under the same roof as a tennant, that when a tennant comes to the homeowner or landlord and its so obvious that the tennant needs medical attention, requests that he be taken to the hospital, and is told no, then requests from landlord or home owner to call the paramedics so they can get medical attention, and are told no, they will not call paramedics, that is neglect, i mean seriously, my father shouldnt have even had to ask, the lanlord a.k.a manager should have offered to take him, she sure the hell had no problem taking m y dad to the bank..


law as of 4/25/2016

(1) Physical abuse and mental suffering:
“any person who knows or reasonably should know that a
person is an elder or dependent adult and who, under circum-stances or conditions likely to produce great bodily harm or
death, willfully causes or permits any elder or dependent adult
to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental
suffering . . . is punishable by imprisonment . . . or fine.” (Penal
Code § 368(b) and (c).)

(2) neglect:
“any person . . . having the care or custody of any elder or depen-dent adult, [who] willfully causes or permits the person or health
of the elder or dependent adult to be injured, or willfully causes
or permits the elder or dependent adult to be placed in a situa-tion in which his or her person or health is endangered, is pun-ishable by imprisonment . . . or fine.”

What is Elder Financial Abuse?
In California, elders are defined as persons 65 years and older. Under California law, elder abuse can be both
criminal and civil.
Criminal elder abuse occurs where any person who violates any provision of law proscribing theft,
embezzlement, forgery, or fraud of an elder and who knows or reasonably should know that the victim is an
elder. It is punishable by a fine of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) and imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison for two, three, or four years, when the money, labor, goods,
services, or real or personal property taken or obtained is of a value exceeding nine hundred fifty dollars
($950); and by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment, when money, labor, goods, services, or real or
personal property taken or obtained is of a value not exceeding nine hundred fifty dollars ($950). (California
Penal Code Section 368)
Civil law defines civil elder financial abuse as when a person or entity does any of the following:
1. Takes, secretes, appropriates, obtains, or retains real or personal property of an elder for a wrongful use or
with intent to defraud, or both.
2. Assists in taking, secreting, appropriating, obtaining, or retaining real or personal property of an elder for
a wrongful use or with intent to defraud, or both.
3. Takes, secretes, appropriates, obtains, or retains, or assists in taking, secreting, appropriating, obtaining,
or retaining, real or personal property of an by undue influence. Undue influence means excessive persuasion
that result in inequity. (Welfare & Institutions Code Section 15610.30)
 

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