can they garnish or freeze accts. without suing?

NY
Can a hospital (or their collection agency) garnish my wages or freeze my bank account without first suing me? Please....any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!

[bigun]

No, they must file a lawsuit and win before a judge will authorize a wage garnishment.

Bigun...thanx for the reply**************the collection agency has threatened to attach our bank acct. and garnish wages for this debt even though we have tried several times to set up arrangements with them......they say they will not accept anything less than the full amount for settlement and i cannot afford to pay the full amt. I could understand it if it were a credit card or any other type of bill that you caused yourself to get into debt for, but i think med. bills are different in that you can never forsee being seriously ill. Thanx again for your reply!

the collection agency has threatened to attach our bank acct. and garnish wages for this debt even though we have tried several times to set up arrangements with them......they say they will not accept anything less than the full amount for settlement and i cannot afford to pay the full amt.

What you should do to put a stop to the threat of their grabbing your bank account after judgment and garnishment proceedings is to get a relative to be a joint account holder. They cannot garnish then because there is no way they can determine whose money is in that account. The joint account holder need not have any priviledges on the account. Simply to have their name on it. Even IRS cannot touch such an account so your money is perfectly safe. Garnishment of wages is another matter, but they can only garnish a percentage and not all of it or even a major part of it.

If they do get a judgment, you need to go down to the courthouse and get copies of all the paperwork and look to see if it has all the proper affidavits and that all other rules of procedure have been followed and if not then you might well be able to file motion to vacate and get the judgment overturned. The biggest majority of judgments are a legal nullity due to procedural or other errors. In most cases they are not to be feared.

I could understand it if it were a credit card or any other type of bill that you caused yourself to get into debt for, but i think med. bills are different in that you can never forsee being seriously ill.

I'm afraid you are off the wall and out to lunch on this one. Medical bills are no different than any other bill in that respect. Doctors and hospitals cannot operate without money and lots of it. That may seem heartless and cruel or unjust to many, but it does not excuse or alter the fact that you caused them work and expense which must be paid for somehow. They didn't know you would call upon them for their services and not be able to pay for them either. You are just as liable for medical bills as you are for any other kind of bills.

[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

[JETX]

Well, 'bbauer' has blown another one..... and it is so blatantly bogus, lets look at his response line by line....

1) "What you should do to put a stop to the threat of their grabbing your bank account after judgment and garnishment proceedings is to get a relative to be a joint account holder."
Yeah, right. First, there is no such thing as a 'joint account holder'. Creditors only have co-owners, authorized users and co-signers. Co-owners and co-signers would each be liable for the debt, including your 'prior' debt. Definitely NOT a position that they would want to put themselves into. An 'authorized user' would be immune from liability, but also wouldn't affect your liability for the debt.

2) "They cannot garnish then because there is no way they can determine whose money is in that account."
Not needed. See #1 and you will simply see that there is no co-mingling of assets, ergo, no requirement to determine 'whose money'.

3) "The joint account holder need not have any priviledges on the account. Simply to have their name on it."
Simply not true, and not even possible since there is no such thing as a 'joint account holder'.

4) "Even IRS cannot touch such an account so your money is perfectly safe."
WOW, now he is claiming immunity from the IRS... based on a premise that can't happen.

5) "Garnishment of wages is another matter, but they can only garnish a percentage and not all of it or even a major part of it."
This one is so wrong, it is laughable. And he doesn't even get his screw-up right. There are two different types of garnishments; bank and wages. Some states limit the amount of wage garnishment per pay period, but the full amount can still be seized. As for banks, they can take any amount up to the total of the judgment.

6) "If they do get a judgment, you need to go down to the courthouse and get copies of all the paperwork and look to see if it has all the proper affidavits and that all other rules of procedure have been followed and if not then you might well be able to file motion to vacate and get the judgment overturned."
Again, so ludicrous it is idiotic!! The best solution is to not let them get a judgment in the first place. Then, after a judgment is rendered, the judgment debtor can only file an appeal. And it has to have some legal basis. Also, there is very little likelihood that there would be ANY affidavit for an undisputed judgment.

7) "The biggest majority of judgments are a legal nullity due to procedural or other errors. In most cases they are not to be feared."
I agree that there are occasional errors and omissions in some proceedings, but your claims that a majority of judgments can even be voided is a blatant lie.

Who just blew it?

Well, 'bbauer' has blown another one..... and it is so blatantly bogus, lets look at his response line by line....

Ok This should be fun.

<li>1) "What you should do to put a stop to the threat of their grabbing your bank account after judgment and garnishment proceedings is to get a relative to be a joint account holder."
***************************
Yeah, right. First, there is no such thing as a 'joint account holder'. Creditors only have co-owners, authorized users and co-signers. Co-owners and co-signers would each be liable for the debt, including your 'prior' debt. Definitely NOT a position that they would want to put themselves into.

Obviously you were so anxious to jump down my throat you didn't even read my post or didn't understand it if you did.

We were not speaking about creditors. We were discussing how to keep creditors from grabbing bank accounts and it's bank accounts where joint holder or joint tenants are involved. Had you any knowledge of law at all you would have recognized the obvious reference to the law of tenancy by the entireties and why the IRS will not grab a joint bank account instead of flying off on some wild goose chase absent even having the goose in view.
Sorry about that, better luck next time.

An 'authorized user' would be immune from liability, but also wouldn't affect your liability for the debt.

Quite true if your comment had been in context.

We aren't talking about your customers, we are talking about how to keep the likes of you out of people's pockets and bank accounts.

You are now in about the same shape as the Taliban Navy who needs new glass bottom boats so they can see their old navy.

[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

to bbauer....i didnt mean to say that i wasn't responsible for the medical bills when i said that they are different than credit card bills.....i only meant to say that i pay all my bills and i am not an irrisponsible person in that respect. but in the situation i am in i would not run out and charge up any debts i could not pay, and therefore i do not feel it right to be threatened continuously by the collection angency for non payment of this debt especially since i have tried repeatedly to set up a mutually benificial payment arrangement with them. i was only trying to find out if they could just come in and take what they wanted out of my checking acct. without first taking the legal route.

Simply put, No they cannot do that. They must go to court first.

[HomeGuru]

[quote]Originally posted by bbauer
[b] What you should do to put a stop to the threat of their grabbing your bank account after judgment and garnishment proceedings is to get a relative to be a joint account holder. They cannot garnish then because there is no way they can determine whose money is in that account. The joint account holder need not have any priviledges on the account. Simply to have their name on it.
**My response: not true. I have garnished joint accounts whereby monies were owed by only one of the joint parties.
Just adding an indivdual to create a joint account will not shield the primary indivdual that owes the money. Relatives cannot hold property in T/E, T/E is only for maried indivduals.
********************

Even IRS cannot touch such an account so your money is perfectly safe.
**My response: not true: the IRS can levy and lien a bank account without a Court order even if it is a joint account.
******************

Garnishment of wages is another matter, but they can only garnish a percentage and not all of it or even a major part of it.

If they do get a judgment, you need to go down to the courthouse and get copies of all the paperwork and look to see if it has all the proper affidavits and that all other rules of procedure have been followed and if not then you might well be able to file motion to vacate and get the judgment overturned. The biggest majority of judgments are a legal nullity due to procedural or other errors. In most cases they are not to be feared.
**My response: are you an attorney?
*****************

I'm afraid you are off the wall and out to lunch on this one. Medical bills are no different than any other bill in that respect. Doctors and hospitals cannot operate without money and lots of it. That may seem heartless and cruel or unjust to many, but it does not excuse or alter the fact that you caused them work and expense which must be paid for somehow. They didn't know you would call upon them for their services and not be able to pay for them either. You are just as liable for medical bills as you are for any other kind of bills.
**My response: no comment.

My response: not true. I have garnished joint accounts whereby monies were owed by only one of the joint parties.

Your war stories are only informative about how you have successfully abrogated the rights of your victims but most certainly is neither entertaining nor enlightening.

Just adding an indivdual to create a joint account will not shield the primary indivdual that owes the money.

If you can prove that the joint relationship was created solely for the purpose of defeating garnishments then it most assuredly would not shield the primary individual.

Relatives cannot hold property in T/E, T/E is only for maried indivduals.

Quite true, of course. Anyone reading the law and the decisions of the courts would ralize that very quickly.

My response: not true: the IRS can levy and lien a bank account without a Court order even if it is a joint account.

Like you, yes they can so long as they operate against the ignorant and the fearful. Once they have pulled that little shenanigan however a couple of very simple questions will have them returning the money with some alacrity. Questions such as "where is my lawful assessment of taxation? What lawfully makes me a taxpayer? Who is my assessment officer? Please produce lawful evidence of any indebtedness you claim that I may owe to the IRS or the U.S. Treasury. What can I ask for or demand as evidence of my indebtedness to the treasury? When you start getting a bunch of stalls and excuses instead of answers to your questions just inform them that it is a federal felony offense punishable by 5 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000 for any employee of the federal government to demand any sum of money or thing of value from an American citizen absent lawful assessment of taxation and you will start to see faces changing color real fast. There are few who will ask those pointed questions of IRS because they fear the power. Their fear defeats them every time as you are obviously well aware of. You speak of IRS liens. IRS does not use liens against anyone. They simply waltz down to the county court house and file a notice of lien. A notice of lien carries on the obverse side a form which ostensibly must be signed by a judge whose signature would turn the notice of lien into an actual lien. No judge in his right mind would sign one of those because there is no evidence of a debt owed. It is merely a demand for payment of monies supposedly owed but unproven. And they get away with it through the power of fear and the lack of knowledge. Yes, they have established legal grounds for the existance and usage of a notice of lien in lieu of lien. I am well aware of that, but that does not mean that it is the right thing for them to do.

My response: are you an attorney?

And my response to you is that I wouldn't want to admit it if I were and I went around pulling the kinds of stunts on people that you apparently love to brag about.

The net effect of what you have said is that it's perfectly alright to run red lights at 90 mph so long as no one sees you and you don't have a fatal accident in the process and that just because IRS gets away with it you think you can emulate them.

[email]ceo@credtiwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

[HomeGuru]

I see, another one of those we the people type wackos.

Ah Ha! Cried the blind woman as she shook her wooden leg, AH HA!

Sorry, but you obviously don't see anything and understand much less. No, I'm not a tax protester or a "we the people" type. I'd be willing to bet you can't even tell me what "We the People" is/was nor even approximately how many of it's advocates are still doing time in Federal prisons nor why they are doing time. You just like to toss terms around in the air and see who you can hit with them. I really don't even care about IRS or tax issues but I do know a lot more about them than most people do. I was just having fun with an obvious scofflaw. Are you one of those too?

[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

[HomeGuru]

This is the thread that started it all.
Per his request, do not post him here.
If you wish to email Mr. Bauer you may at: [email]bbauer1@netzero.net[/email] or [email]bbauer@nstar.net[/email]
Or feel free to call or fax at (405) 631-5136.


Thank you for your cooperation.

It wasn't the thread that started it, it was your nasty habit of calling people names. You and your old pal "I Am Adolph Lip****z" that get so much kick out of nasty name calling that it begins to look like you are one and the same posting under different phony names.

I've been looking up your sordid history of name calling and it's pretty obvious that's about all either of you are any good for.

Looks like just about everybody gets attacked in here sooner or later that don't have some kind of a stupid title tacked on every message they post.

Bet you have a ball playing all these mind games, don't you?

Have a ball. Break a leg.

[JETX]

Originally posted by bbauer

Bet you have a ball playing all these mind games, don't you?

B-B-Brain: It would be fun to play "mind games" against you, but you come to the 'games' unarmed.
You are one of the most dangerous types of individuals out there. It is obvious that you have a little knowledge, but it is just enough to sound 'half-right' until someone with real knowledge gets involved. Then, you start to cower behind false claims. HomeGuru asked you a few simple questions, but rather than answer them, you gave some 'mumbo-jumbo' about blind women with wooden legs, prison and even 'We the People'.

Personally, responding to you is kind of like jabbing a stick at a monkey in a cage. It is almost funny to watch your response, but we also realize it is not nice or proper to poke you with a stick.