credit card problems

from michigan,my husband and myself have gone thru hard times, i got sick, got on ssi-d immediatley after applying.lost my income.....then hubby lost 1/2 of his income..had many legal and hosp. bills.we'll we owe 80,000.00 in unsecured credit card debit**************do we claim bankrupsy?? we can not make the payments have been talking to credit counselors, they said they cant help because he only brings home 400.00 a week our house note is 1000.00 our credit cards come to 2500.00 a month.....when do we file??can they do anything to us.take our house?? isnt UNSECURED just that??

[bigun]

You need to see a lawyer fast. BK may well be the only option for that amount of debt and that small an income.
Unsecured only means there is no specific collateral involved. The creditors still sue and palce a lein on your home or garnish your husbands wages {if alloed in your state}. Your SSDI is exempt fro garnishment or creditor seizure.
Most lawyers give free initial consultations. Good luck!

On your limited income you may want to file your own bankruptcy rather than seeking out an expensive lawyer who will do no more for you than you can do for yourself for a lot less money. Additionally, most attorneys never think of cloaking the bankruptcy so it don't show up on your credit reports and if you file your own you can get it done for less than $500 whereas most attorneys won't touch it for that kind of money. You may want to look into that angle because if you file yourself you can usually keep a lot more of your property and other personal items. Maybe all of it. You can get all of the forms all properly filled out for you so all you have to do is just go file them and pay the filing fees whatever they may be. You would probably have to attend a creditor's meeting or two and be in court on the final day but that's about all there is too it. You will find out it's really pretty easy to do and not all that much to it if your forms are all properly filled out for you and all you have to do is go file them. The forms can all be filled out with a special computer program and printed out and sent to you. That makes it pretty easy.

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[bigun]

Cloaking? Keep more property by filing yourself as opposed to a lawyer? The law is pretty specific about what you can and can't keep. Whether they do it themselves or have a lawyer do it will make no difference. Unless, you would encourage someone to do something that is against the bk statutes and they'd need to do it themselves because a lawyer wouldn't get involved.

Cloaking?

All that cloaking does is to keep it from becoming a public record that the credit bureaus can check on. It's just filed differently so it don't get into the public records area. No big deal.

Keep more property by filing yourself as opposed to a lawyer?

Depends on the lawyer. It's not that a private party can do more than the lawyer can because that's simply not true. What a lawyer can do is only what he knows how to do and not all attorneys are particularly good at what they do. Some are real Johnny Cochrans and others would not make a pimple on a good lawyer's nose. Nothing new in that.

The law is pretty specific about what you can and can't keep.

No argument there.

Whether they do it themselves or have a lawyer do it will make no difference.

It will make an awful difference in how much money they have to pay to get the job done. Usually several hundred dollars and that's a big difference.

Unless, you would encourage someone to do something that is against the bk statutes and they'd need to do it themselves because a lawyer wouldn't get involved.

I would not advise anyone to do anything at all that is even extra-legal, let alone illegal. Most lawyers want a quick buck with the least amount of actual work involved as possible.

You can't even find a good consumer protection lawyer for the simple reason that most all of them look at the $1,000 awards that FDCPA allows and figure that isn't even enough for them to bother with. Not worth their time and trouble.

A few will get bright enough to realize that other avenues of approach turn that $1,000 into well upwards of $25,000 and often as much as a $100,000 in damage awards for the same case they would have been lucky to get $1,000 out of if they filed under FDCPA.

In bankruptcy there are only about 8 to 10 pages of paperwork that must be properly filled out and filed with the court. Then you usually go to a creditor's meeting to which most of the time nobody even bothers to show up to attend and then on to the actual court hearing which don't last all that long in most cases.

If the paperwork is right, it's usually pretty cut and dried and for that many lawyers want anywhere from maybe $750 to $1200 or more. People are just afraid because they don't know what it's all about. If the paperwork is all properly filled out and they have been properly instructed about what to expect and how to handle the situation then there is no need for fear.

Fear and the unknown will beat you every time.

[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

[JETX]

I don't know what this 'bbauer' guy is on, but it has apparently allowed him to just make up scary stuff.....

He said, "You can get all of the forms all properly filled out for you so all you have to do is just go file them and pay the filing fees whatever they may be."

I would be very interested in who will fill out these forms for others. Unless the 'form filler' is an attorney, completing these forms for others is Unauthorized Practice of Law.

So, 'bbauer', you can:
1) advise who this free 'form filler' is and how to get hold of him/her, or
2) admit that you really have no idea what you are talking about.
Which will it be???

debquick....you definitely need to file bankruptcy asap in order to protect your assests. I certainly don't want to get into your personal business, hard times or not, $80,000 is a LOT in credit card debt. I strongly suggest that both you and your husband take some classes or whatever to learn how to manage finances. Because if you don't, after you make it through the bankruptcy, get yourself back into good times....I see you right back where you are today.

I guess you must be an attorney else you would not protest so much. "Unauthorized practice of law" is the giving of legal advice to others and recommending that they follow such advice be it good, bad or ugly. Filling out papers does not constitute any "Unauthorized practice of law" and cannot be construed as such. Use of a computer program whose programming was done by bankruptcy attorneys is not "Unauthorized practice of law" any more than is the sale of forms for the purpose of filing divorce or filing for incorporation or many other things of that nature that are provided to the public.

I suppose that you will claim that when Nolo sells a kit for $11.95 on the internet and elsewhere with which to file motions in court that they are engaging in the "Unauthorized practice of law."

And yes, I am well aware that your great state of Texas did try to haul Nolo.com into a Texas court and attempt to charge them with the "Unauthorized practice of law" for selling those kits on the internet. Seems the state of Texas has not been too successful with that lawsuit so far and it's highly unlikely that they will be. Nor would they be in the case of a computer program that will properly fill out bankruptcy forms so people don't have to get robbed by the so called professionals.

I must agree that in the event that their situation is complicated such as it would be in the case of a large corporation then simplistic computer programs are not going to fill the bill and they need to use attorneys. Individuals with a few bills they got behind on are not in that position. And computers cannot practice law or anything else. They can only do what humans tell them to do and sometimes not even that.

It's easy to see why someone in the judgment recovery business would not want people to get themselves out of their problems so easily and would therefore go to great lengths to decry any simple solutions to problems as being "illegal" or "unlawful" or "dangerous" or "unauthorized" and thereby instill fear and distrust into the minds of those likely to defeat their commercial interests. The fear factor defeats more people than any other single factor and so called professionals are the first to use it to their perceived benefits.

Too bad so many people fall for those kinds of tactics.

BTW, what is a "competent" attorney? How do you define one of those and how would one know whether or not an attorney was "competent" or not?

It is my understanding and experience that such is almost impossible to find unless my definition of "competent" attorney is inaccurate.

Please help us out here and define the term "competent attorney" and tell us where to find one.


[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

[vrzirn]

I hope you have "homesteaded" your house.
I have known many attorneys and never knew one who would be willing to jeopardize his "ticket" by doing something unethical. As one said to me, "If it doesn't pass the smell test, it ain't legal".

I hope you have "homesteaded" your house.

Don't know what you have reference to above. Homesteading is not always the best way to go to protect your home. A much better way is to use the law of tenancy by the entireties to do your protecting. Homesteading often prevents one from getting any financing on the home but tenancy by the entireties usually doesn't arise in loan questions. Lenders don't often think about that one. They just ask if it's homesteaded.

I have known many attorneys and never knew one who would be willing to jeopardize his "ticket" by doing something unethical.

What's unethical?

As one said to me, "If it doesn't pass the smell test, it ain't legal".

I'd have to agree with your lawyer acquaintance. Seems like a wise lawyer to me. I wonder what he smelled like? I haven't seen many of them yet that could pass a good valid smell test. That's not to say there aren't good ones out there because they are, but when you can find one he's usually so high priced the average human being can't afford him anyway. That's why the courts are now becoming so receptive to pro se litigants and aren't even all that surprised by someone coming before the court propia persona any more. The courts are recognizing the fact that lawyers have just about priced themselves out of the market anymore. And the pro se and propia persona litigants are putting the fancy lawyers to shame all over the land. That's because they do their homework and know their law. They take great pains and put in untold hours studying the law. They specialize their studies and focus them sharply to their areas of special interest. While an attorney might spend maybe 8 years or so in a law school, a good pro se litigant might well spend 20 years or more in almost constant study himself or he has friends who have before they ever step foot in a court room. I've got several friends who are so sharp they'd make a razor blade cry.

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[vrzirn]

Must be the ones in prison working on their appeals.

Sometimes that's all too true.

Must be the ones in prison working on their appeals

Many years ago when I was in El Paso visiting I stopped into a rather ratty pool room to ask directions and cool off a bit and struck up a conversation with a colored fellow who was sitting there sipping a beer and studying a law book He also had a pad of legal papers and a legal sized notepad and I thought all that was a bit incompatible with the location to say the least so I struck up a conversation with him. Turns out his name was Brown and he wrote the case he had appealed to the United States Supreme Court entitled Brown v. City of El Paso. It's a landmark case he wrote while in prison. He claimed it was unconstitional for police to stop a citizen for the simple reason that he happened to be in a high crime neighborhood at a late hour of the nite. I left the bar after a couple of hours of good conversation with Brown and have never had any further contact with him again.

Yes, prisoners working on their appeals have accomplished a lot from time to time and their cases are legion. One forced the Oklahoma State Department of Corrections under federal court jurisdiction because of their inhumane treatment of prisoners. They may still be under supervision of the Federal courts as far as I know. They were up until maybe a year or so ago at the very least.
Various stories about that pop up in the Daily Oklahoman and other newspapers from time to time as the DOC tries to get out from under the mandates of the federal courts. It was the cause of the CAP laws which mandated the cures to overcrowding in the prisons. Once the system gets to about 85 or 90 percent of capacity they either have to build more prisons or let out some of the less dangerous offenders.

It was a prisoner writing his appeal to the Supreme Court on toilet paper somewhere who made the prisons put in decent law libraries and make them available to prisoners and provide them with something besides toilet paper to write their briefs on. But even if they do write them on toilet paper or whatever, the courts must accept their pleadings unless frivolous.

But let's not put the prisoners down. Some of them are very brilliant people. Many of the inmates of federal and state prisons are doctors and lawyers and clergy and other professionals who just got crosswise with the law for whatever reason. And do n't be too quick to scoff. It can happen to you too. It can happen to the best of people and often does.

Our court system handles around 2 to 3 million Americans yearly as a conservative estimate on various criminal charges alone. America is now the number one most imprisoning nation on earth, incarcerating a far greater percentage of it's population than any other nation on earth.

It used to be South Africa during the centuries of apartheid rule that was the #1 most imprisoning nation on earth. It was where a colored man could go home once a year to impregnate his wife. Other than that, he slaved in the diamond mines day in and day out for torturous hours a day and little food.

Number 2 used to be Soviet Russia and then the United States was the 3rd most imprisoning nation on earth.

Now that Apartheid rule has ended in South Africa and the Soviet Socialist Republics of Russia and it's communist rule have become more civilized, America is left as the #1 most imprisoning nation on earth.

And so I have to ask, are we really that bad as a people or is there something sadly amiss in our political, legal and judicial systems?

BTW, I still know a fair number of people who spend most of their time studying the law and no, they are not prisoners working on appeals. They are just everyday Americans who love their country and want to do what they can to ensure that we can live in a nation where liberty and equal justice for all is the rule of the land.

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