Electric company coming after me for room mates bill

[ConnorW]

What is the name of your state? I'm in Colorado.

I just received a letter from Xcel Energy saying that they want me to pay the past due balance on a room mate's account. Their position seems to be that since I lived there and they can not get money out of the account holder that I am somehow responsible.

In their words: "The customer of record can not be located and the company has pursued all reasonable and timely collection efforts and has been unable to obtain paymnet. The Company now looks to you for payment of the outstanding balance in accordance with approved tariffs governing payment and service."

I don't see how I can be held responsible for a room mate's debt to the power company. I never signed anything with Xcel Energy and it was never a joint account. I don't even know if I was listed on the account at all.

Do they have a case?

Aside from sending them a letter disputing the claim and it's legality is there anything else I should do?

[Ladynred]

You might try calling the Public Utility Commission in your state and asking them if what Xcel is trying to do is legal. That statement about 'appoved tarriffs blah, blah, blah' could very will be their out to go after you. They could also be bluffing and just trying evey possible avenue they can find to get paid.

You could try doing a search on net for anything regarding the tarriffs, but calling the PUC is faster

Found a link to the Colorodo PUC: [url]http://www.dora.state.co.us/puc/723.htm?[/url]

[ConnorW]

Thanks Ladynred.

I called the PUC, I checked their website but nothing there. The PUC says that if you lived there you are responsible whether your name was on the account or not. They also said the tariffs are on Xcel's website, but I couldn't find them. So looks like I'm screwed and will end up paying 150% of the bill since I already paid half to my room mate.

It seems it just isn't worth being a tenant in Colorado, no rights and you're responsible for everything whether you have a contract or not.

Thanks again!

Originally posted by Ladynred
You might try calling the Public Utility Commission in your state and asking them if what Xcel is trying to do is legal. That statement about 'appoved tarriffs blah, blah, blah' could very will be their out to go after you. They could also be bluffing and just trying evey possible avenue they can find to get paid.

You could try doing a search on net for anything regarding the tarriffs, but calling the PUC is faster

Found a link to the Colorodo PUC: [url]http://www.dora.state.co.us/puc/723.htm?[/url]

[Ladynred]

Yes, the tarriffs are on Xcel's website, they're under "Energy Prices', that shows 'rates and tariffs', then theres a link to "RULES". [url]http://www.xcelenergy.com/EnergyPrices/RatesTariffsCO.asp[/url]

I've been reading them (ugh), but I don't see anywhere that says 'if you live there you're responsible' ! That's a real crock ! I see references to 'customer of record', etc. Since the PUC is the governing body, you probably can't argue with them

What about your roomie's deposit ?? Have they used that to satisfy at least some portion of the bill ? The ARE allowed to do that, that IS in their rules. Your roomie will be out of luck if he ever wants electric service in Colorodo again.

You might look up tenant's rights in CO too, might be something there. Was your name and/or signature on a lease ??

[ConnorW]

Ladynred

Thanks again for the link. It does put me on the hook in one way, but due to mistakes on Xcel's part may give me an out. I'm not sure how other states work but if you're of legal age and Xcel can prove that you lived there then you enjoyed "Benefit of Service" and can be held liable if they can't collect from the customer of record. It also lists how Xcel can go about coming after you if you're not the customer of record and the procedures they have to go through (very little really). Read on for how I think I can avoid this. I'll update this thread as this problem progresses.

Thanks for the link to the Electric Tariffs. I checked them out and down near the bottom (page 288 of 346 or so) "Benefit of Service" it says that if you're of legal age and live there they can come after you. My name and signature were on the lease, so they have me there. What they don't have is under their "timely and reasonable" collection efforts... they only made a few phone calls and no more, and they failed to inform me that I could dispute it by filing a complaint with the PUC. As for Colorado tenant rights, there basically are none, there's no habitability clause in Colorado... not a good place to be a tenant in the grand scheme of things.

Xcel is using the tariffs they wrote as a big stick and somewhat heavy handedly, I think. I read through them and they made some mistakes

I'm going to file a complaint with the PUC in a few days and dispute it based on the fact that Xcel hasn't exhausted all collections avenues yet, and until that time they can't come after me since I wasn't the "customer of record", and the fact that in their letter of intent to collect from me under "Benefit of Service" they failed to inform me of my right to dispute it via the PUC. I also spoke to the room mate in question, who does not dispute the amount and will be sending a letter to Xcel with a payment of some sort. The way I see it if the "customer of record" is willing to pay them something, even $10 a month for now, then they don't have a leg to stand on. The tariffs say nothing about the length of time the customer of record can take to pay it off.

The room mate in question is going to provide me with a copy of their letter to Xcel. I will be including the letter from the room mate, Xcel's letter and my letter to Xcel with my written complaint to the PUC. With any luck that should take care of that.

Since part of Xcel's reasoning for coming after me is that they can't get in contact with the room mate I've offerd to have Xcel send their mailings care of me and I will make sure that they get to the room mate.

I'll update this thread as things develop. If it works out in may favour I'd be happy to post any letters (or provide them to anyone in the same position by email) so that others can use them if the same thing happens to them.

Hehe, part of me is looking forward to this in a twisted David vs Goliath sort of way. It will be interesting to see if the little guy can take on the big Power Company with their own rules and regs and actually win.

This whole idea of collecting $ from somone whose name isn't even on the bill sounds far-fetched to me. Suppose the owner of the apartment building doesn't pay his electric bill. Does that mean the electric company can go after tenants because they "used" the lights in the hallways or the electricity for the washer and dryer in the laundry room. Companies like this have dirtbag lawyers )who are considered respectible because they are "corporate") write these insane rules to protect the greedy stockholders. It's probably costing them more $ to collect from you than it would if they wrote it off.

[Ladynred]

Alright ConnorW !!!

I love this kind of fight and if you can beat Xcel with their own big stick that would be a point or two for the 'little guy' ! Sounds like you have what you need on the stance you're taking. They at least have to make a decent effort to collect from the customer of record. Somebody is just too darned lazy to do any legwork.

Good Luck.. lookin' forward to the updates !

[ConnorW]

I called the Colorado PUC after my post this morning. I made an informal complaint and they were very interested in a fx of the letter I received from Xcel since Xcel did not mention the Colorado PUC on it at all as required. I let the PUC know that I had contacted the customer of record and that they were willing to pay and had only been contacted 3 or 4 times by Xcel. The general impression I was given was that Xcel hadn't done enough to obtain payment from the customer of record. However the tariffs were written so that Xcel doesn't have to go to court to obtain payment... if the person they collect from is not the customer of record it is that person's job to go after the customer of record in civil court. The person I spoke with at the PUC did seem to think that Xcel is only going after me because I have a current account with them and the room mate/customer of record does not.

We'll see what happens. I think that even if they tell me I have to pay I'll wait until I get some sort of really nasty gram like "We're taking you to court" and then file a complaint stating that they should have done that to the customer of record to begin with before coming after me.

I enjoy these types of fights as well

[ConnorW]

I found out Friday night when I went to pay my current electric bill that good odl Xcel Energy violated their own "Benefit of Service" tariff again. Contrary to the part about "prior notice" they went ahead and added the amount to my current account on the same day that they typed up their notice.

I had already spoken with someone at the Colorado PUC, and sent them off a 9 page fax and followed up with a phone call this morning. Basically it doesn't seem like the PUC is going to be doing much. I've got a letter of several pages just waiting for me to get to the post office to send certified with return receipt. In the letter I point out the three instances where Xcel Energy violates the very same tariffs they are using to nail me with the bill. So far my contact with the PUC has been "informal" which basically means that the External Affairs department of the PUC takes my info and my side of things and contacts Xcel Energy to see if they still think they have a right to go after me... any guess as to what Xcel is going to say? After that can come a formal complaint which is much more formal... evidence, etc and then a ruling.

Time to get those credit reports to see if Xcel Energy has made remarks to my credit report.

In my letter to Xcel Energy I point out that by their own tariffs:
- they need to inform me that I can contact the PUC, which they didn't.
- they need to give me prior written notice that they are going to attach the bill to my account. Somehow I don't think that transferring the balance on the same day they write up a notice to me is "prior".
- they have to make resonable and timely efforts to collect from the customer of record / primary obligator before seeking payment from me. I don't think 4 phone calls is reasonable and not other action is reasonable.

I also point out (with a copy of a letter from the room mate) that the customer of record IS willing to pay the owed balance.

I had a few other comments to them about disputing the amount, requesting proof, formal judgement by the PUC, etc before I'd even consider paying.

Based on what the PUC says Xcel can take it's own sweet time in responding to the inquiry by the PUC. But on the other hand since I am in the middle of disputing the matter they can't do anything. It'll be interesting to see what Xcel does in the mean time. I expect to see the amount reflected on my next bill from them. I had one of their reps read me back the notes on the account and they have statements "by me" that were never made. I just bought a telephone recorder and can't wait to ask their next rep if they mind me recording the call "for quality assurance and training purposes" Of course if they don't want to be recorded then they can just spend money on a stamp and send it in writing.

[ConnorW]

Originally posted by ishotthesheriff
This whole idea of collecting $ from somone whose name isn't even on the bill sounds far-fetched to me. Suppose the owner of the apartment building doesn't pay his electric bill. Does that mean the electric company can go after tenants because they "used" the lights in the hallways or the electricity for the washer and dryer in the laundry room. Companies like this have dirtbag lawyers )who are considered respectible because they are "corporate") write these insane rules to protect the greedy stockholders. It's probably costing them more $ to collect from you than it would if they wrote it off.

I agree. I read the tariffs and they're written by Xcel Energy for them. However their collection agency doesn't know any more about them than to say "in accordance with approved tariffs and regulations governing payment and service"... directly from their letter to me. My rather lengthy letter disputing the matter to them not only points out the three seperate points where Xcel violated the very tariffs they are using to go after me and wrote, but includes the following closing remark:

"Since the Credit Department has used the statement "approved tariffs governing payment and service" in Xcel Energy's letter of June 10, 2002, and seems unfamiliar with the Electric Tariff, I have included a copy of the Benefit of Service paragraph from the Electric Tariffs for your records." I printed out the paragraph / section and included it for them.

My goal is to make it so difficult for them that they decide to go away. I figure they're not used to people standing up to them and quoting the very tariff that they use but don't provide to you in their defence while pointing out where Xcel Energy has itself violated / ignored the tariff in it's own interests.

It's a stupid tariff if you ask me, but it does state that they can come after anyone of legal age who they can prove resided there.

My plan is to prove Xcel Energy ignored the tariff when it suited them, used it when it suited them, didn't do enough to collect payment from the customer of record, and that they customer of record still admits to the bill and is willing to pay the balance.

It's just another case of a big company selectively using the rules to their advantage hoping the average "Joe" is too stupid or uninformed to counter.

[ConnorW]

Well I've heard back from the Colorado PUC. Not the exact person who handled my informal complaint, but that's later.

The basic run down from the PUC is "you're stuck, so pay". After going through everything that there is on the matter I figured it would come to that. I asked about Xcel violating their own tarrifs and was told "that's splitting hairs". Damn straight it is. I've also been told that if the ex room mate had an account with Xcel they wouldn't be coming after me.

I figure if they can't work something out with the ex room mate and I do end up paying then I'll go the route of a formal complaint on the grounds that Xcel has not properly notified me of the debt persuent to their tarrifs. I'll ask for proof of the amount since none was given nor offered.

It's really nothing more than delaying it, but it makes Xcel have to work a bit harder at it, and gives me time to see if anything has been added to my credit report by Xcel yet. And it's the principle of the matter, why should Xcel be able to violate their own tariffs and I have to abide by them? They can do it the way things are suppose to be done or go away.

Assuming that I end up having to pay this, does anyone know what the laws are in Colorado governing payments. I know that when I was in Florida they had to accept a payment, and if they did not it cancelled the debt. I've tried looking for something similiar in Colorado but have had no luck.

If I end up having to pay for this then I intend to offer Xcel something I can afford without causing problems with the other bills in my life. I'm sure they're going to want more than I can afford right now. I intend to make Xcel work for this every step of the way if I have to pay.

[nailtech]

Conner, you stated you know where you ex room mate lives, is he still in the Colorado area? if so, if you give the utility co his address they can attach the old bill to his new bill, and they should be done with you... Just a thought...