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Found large sum of money, want to put in bank.

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justalayman

Senior Member
What is the crime the OP will be sent to "prison" for?

BOR lays out the issues. What is the conclusion?
depends where the money is from, what the OP does with the money, and his ability to defend any accused involvement with any crime the money is associated with, if there is any.

My favorite possibility is the money was stolen from some person's house where the occupants were murdered. Just happens on that day, the op was seen down the street from the house and somebody "might have" overheard the OP say something that led them to believe he was talking about committing such a crime.

while that is obviously without any support or reason to even suggest it is a possibility, the fact is, that, based on the info we have, that is just as possible as; it fell out of a guys car as he was driving down the road and made a sharp left hand turn and the door flew open and enough further events so as it was lost into the pond.

actually, I have an even more fun scenario.

It's mob money. It was dumped as one of the hit guys was evading the police. There was a witness to who found the money and they are, at this moment, walking up to the door of the OP to reclaim their money.

Of course, the hitman is known a "the invisible man" because there is nobody alive that has seen him. You can figure out what happens next.
 

BOR

Senior Member
well, I wouldn't normally think a safe would be one of those "anybody can guess that" items.

BOR, you have left out what is the most likely situation: stolen property.
I mentioned it is possible it could be stolen, yes.

He did not mention the "exact" $$ amount, but said it was over 10 grand!

For such a large amount, it is best to turn it into the police OR seek a Declaratory Judgment. Could be there was bank robbery in the area and some of the "bait" serial ##'s might match. Just a theory there.

The most I ever found was about 500$$ in a bag a merchant dropped at a Mall. It had the company name on it so I knew who the "rightful owner" was, so by law, if I kept it, it would be theft.
 

BOR

Senior Member
Wholly irrelevant. It's taxable as income, bank deposit or not. Google "treasure trove".
According to Ohio law it was NOT Treasure Trove, it was LOST.

Federal law addresses Treasure Trove, but only for Maritime issues I think, sunken vessels, etc?

For federal income tax purposes, are you saying the feds would tax the finder of Lost property under Ohio's definition?
 

BOR

Senior Member
depends where the money is from, what the OP does with the money, and his ability to defend any accused involvement with any crime the money is associated with, if there is any.
Unless the OP has a more than educated guess it might be stolen, keeping it would not be receiving stolen property as a finder of LOST goods.

Let's look at the "totality of the circumstances" to borrow a familiar phrase.

To find money on a shoreline, it was either dropped accidentally from a boat or wading and the case got away from owner, or ditched on purpose.

Such large sum of money it seems unlikely it was lost through "inadvertance or carelessness". It is also possible it was.

This sounds like Steinbeck's The Pearl.

After finding it the man had so much difficulty in life with theft attempts etc., he threw it back in the Ocean.
 

davew128

Senior Member
For federal income tax purposes, are you saying the feds would tax the finder of Lost property under Ohio's definition?
I'll refer you to Internal Revenue Code Section One.

Income from all sources unless otherwise exempt is taxable as income.

What Ohio classifies the finding of the money as is WHOLLY irrelevant to its taxability. Is OP $$$$ richer now than before finding the money? Yes. Did OP have a recognizable event in which he recognized this increase in wealth? Yes.

Treasure trove for federal tax purposes is the sudden finding of money or valuable items you did not previously own. The only application of Ohio law relevant here is with regards to the legal ownership of the money.

It's taxable.
 
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BOR

Senior Member
I'll refer you to Internal Revenue Code Section One.

Income from all sources unless otherwise exempt is taxable as income.
If you mean section 61, I see no mention of any such non listed but possible inclusion of found money.

Look at Part 2 and Part 3.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sup_01_26_10_A_20_1_30_B.html

I read such specific inclusions and exclusions. Based on what I read it seems not taxable from the lists. Sure it does not mention anything about lost money, but comparably, if we use the statutory construction of Ejusdem Generis, it would not follow it is taxable. It does specifically include prizes and awards but can we follow that with lost money??

I would not think so?


Treasure trove for federal tax purposes is the sudden finding of money or valuable items you did not previously own.

It's taxable.

Can you provide a specific case citation for that?
 

davew128

Senior Member
I read such specific inclusions and exclusions. Based on what I read it seems not taxable from the lists. Sure it does not mention anything about lost money, but comparably, if we use the statutory construction of Ejusdem Generis, it would not follow it is taxable. It does specifically include prizes and awards but can we follow that with lost money??
One needs to start with the fundamental definition of income.

Cesarini v. United States.....and by the way, the taxpayers were from OHIO. ;)
 

BOR

Senior Member
One needs to start with the fundamental definition of income.

Cesarini v. United States.....and by the way, the taxpayers were from OHIO. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesarini_v._United_States

Good citation as I did ask about TT being taxable. However, as I pointed out what was found was clearly LOST property.

If any court for tax purposes would consider such money in the OP's example as TT, I would be surprised.

Ohio has two federal court districts, Northern and Southern, one decision in one is not binding on another, so even if the ruling is still good law, it depends on the District and the classification of the property.

When you said this before:

Treasure trove for federal tax purposes is the sudden finding of money or valuable items you did not previously own.

It's taxable.
I thought you had a United States Supreme Court case in mind.

The case as linked IMO should have been decided as MISLAID property, not TT, but when it comes to Income tax, it does not suprise me how the Court ruled.

If we go on a National basis for TT, any citations for that.

Sec. 61 says such and such is taxable but is also not all inclusive.

The section laying out EXclusions does not exclude it specifically, no, nor do the INclusions.


That case by name seems familiar to me as being in Ohio Jurisprudence, believe it or not, I will try to look next vist to my law library.

Anyway that was a good case citation for discussion, appreciate it. I like good discussions.

Also when I get down there I am going to look up the case you cited to read the details, good job!
 
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BOR

Senior Member
If any court for tax purposes would consider such money in the OP's example as TT, I would be surprised.

I thought you had a United States Supreme Court case in mind.

The case as linked IMO should have been decided as MISLAID property, not TT, but when it comes to Income tax, it does not suprise me how the Court ruled.

If we go on a National basis for TT, any citations for that.

I found the answer to my own question. The 6th Circuit upheld the District Court ruling.


http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1623994062725875953&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

This above has a link to the actual District Court ruling, and very interesting, a suprise to me, they classified it as "found money", I suppose TT is ALL inclusive of lost or TT. It also has citations from Ohio law.

**************Part III of Subchapter B (Sections 101 et seq.) deals with items specifically excluded from gross income, and found money is not listed in those sections either. This absence of express mention in any of the code sections necessitates a return to the "all income from whatever source" language of Section 61(a) of the code, and the express statement there that gross income is "not limited to" the following fifteen examples. Section 1.61-1(a) of the Treasury Regulations, the corresponding section to Section 61(a) in the 1954 Code, reiterates this broad construction of gross income, providing in part:

"Gross income means all income from whatever source derived, unless excluded by law. Gross income includes income realized in any form, whether in money, property, or services. * * *" (Emphasis added.)
The decisions of the United States Supreme Court have frequently stated that this broad all-inclusive language was used by Congress to exert the full measure of its taxing power under the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Commissioner of Internal Revenue v. Glenshaw Glass Co., 348 U.S. 426, 429, 75 S.Ct. 473, 99 L.Ed. 483 (1955); Helvering v. Clifford, 309 U.S. 331, 334, 60 S.Ct. 554, 84 L.Ed. 788 (1940); Helvering v. Midland Mutual Life Ins. Co., 300 U.S. 216, 223, 57 S.Ct. 423, 81 L.Ed. 612 (1937); Douglas v. Willcuts, 296 U.S. 1, 9, 56 S.Ct. 59, 80 L.Ed. 3 (1935); Irwin v. Gavit, 268 U.S. 161, 166, 45 S.Ct. 475, 69 L.Ed. 897 (1925)**************.


Dave that was an excellent citation.

Yes, you can bet, if it is kept, it is taxable, if claimed that is.
 
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