How to Pay Vol Repo Lease?? Help!

State: Illinois

Brief: Could no longer afford a leased vehicle, and tried to turn it in early and pay it off. Dealer would not accept it to resell, and bank where lease was through would not help. At that time ammount owed was about $2,500.

We should have just taken out a loan at the time and paid it off in full and returned it, but didnt think we would be able to get a loan. Stupid, I know.

We were about 2 payments behind when a bank rep convinced my hubby to do a voluntary repossesion. They did, and the remaining balance is $7,500. They are willing to settle for $5,500. But it must (apparently) be paid in full.

We have no way to come up with this kind of money. No family to borrow from. We have tried every avenue to borrow that amount of money to pay it off but have been turned down. We have only been in our house for 3 months so we do not have enough equity to get a loan. Believe me, we have checked. We also have no other assets that could be sold for $$$.

We have 4 children 7 and under, and one on the way. Hubby has been at job for 1 1/2 years. We have good credit (until this problem) all accounts paid as agreed. But technically we have no net worth, we scrape by with the mortgage and other bills, and actually show a negative income to debt ratio.

My question is what will happen next. I am assuming that the collections guy is going to send the thing to the lawyers. Will they issue a lein? What is a lein? OR Judgement? how does that work? We have always had every intention of paying this off, we just didnt realize that they wouldn't work with us on some sort of payment schedule once they sold the vehicle.

Also, will we have to sell our house? I am just wondering if anyone knows what will happen next.

Thanks,
I am looking forward to any info.
Nicci
[email]Nicci90630@att.net[/email]

My question is what will happen next. I am assuming that the collections guy is going to send the thing to the lawyers.

Don't assume anything in advance. First of all who financed the vehicle lease for you? That can give some insights into what they may do.

Will they issue a lein?

No

What is a lein?

A lien is what is placed on the title of vehicles or other titled property when one borrows money against the title of property. There are other types of liens such as mechanics liens too, but lien on newly purchased property happens at the time of the new loan or purchase.

OR Judgement?

There you go! now you are at least in the ballpark for your situation. You have to be sued in a court of law to get a deficiency judgement placed against you.

how does that work?

Usually not that well. National statistics seems to show that only about 20% of them are ever collected on. That does not mean that if you got one you would be lucky enough to fall into the 80% bracket which does not get collected and most especially so unless you learn how to do something about the judgment.

Most are defective and are null and void upon their face for various reasons. Most can therefore be vacated and if you are lucky you can get it vacated with prejudice meaning that it can never be brought up again in any court of law. You would have to learn enough about judgments and rules of civil procedure and what it takes to perfect a judgment in order to do that, but it's not real hard to do.

All that is necessary is to go to the local clerk of the court's office and ask for copies of the judgment. They don't have to be certified copies. Those cost extra. Examples of the most common errors made by attorneys might be no affidavits filed in the case. All court cases must have affidavits in order to make them work.

An affidavit is nothing more than someone's sworn statement that you owe them money or other statement an affiant might wish to make before the court. Affidavits are the meat of the case. It's another name for testimony which is usually verbal and under oath. Without getting all that technical and splitting hairs, let's just assume that testimony is when someone makes personal appearance before the court and says something under oath and affidavit is when they do it in writing. That's close enough for simple understanding purposes at least.

What sometimes happens is that the plaintiff makes no personal appearance and the defendant does not answer the summons to appear the attorney just does all the testifying and no affidavits are ever filed with the court except affidavit of service of summons. That's illegal and is very rare that one sees a judgment with only the motion of the attorney present in the court record but I have seen it happen one time.

Judgment had been entered and the attorney actually did all the talking and they even got a garnishment on that piece of junk. Attorneys cannot legally testify in a case they are working with. There are a lot of reasons that judgments might be overturnable and one just has to learn what they are.

Debtors usually have to do it themselves since they usually can't find legal counsel they can afford and on top of that it's difficult to get an attorney to go up against his brethern and make them out to be what they really are when they do such things.

We have always had every intention of paying this off

Most people go into such situations with every intention of paying off. Very few are "professional deadbeats"

we just didnt realize that they wouldn't work with us on some sort of payment schedule once they sold the vehicle.

Very few will. And it's understandable why you didn't realize such things at the time of the sale.

Also, will we have to sell our house?

No, they can put a lien on the house so that if it's ever sold the lien will have to be cleared up before you can sell it but they can't force the sale of the home. But just to be on the safe side, I'd do some studying to learn about something called "the law of tenancy by the entireities" and get your home under that type of legal classification so it's safe and can't be touched. It's an easy concept to understand but you would need to seek the assistance of legal counsel to actually put it into effect. Should not cost very much to do so and would pretty well assure the home against most legal attacks. It's just something you should learn about and look into.

I am just wondering if anyone knows what will happen next.

Yep. The Lord only knows! (LOL) A lot depends on you and how you react to the situation. You need to start learning how to effectively do battle right from the git-go. Learn how to handle this situation for yourself and don't go off paying any credit repair companies to clean up your credit for you. Credit repair companies can't do anything for you that you can't do for yourself if you learn how. You can put up an awful scrap and have a tremendous impact on the outcome if you will only get busy and start learning instead of going into panic. Mostly it's just common sense kinds of things that one can do to help himself. Just remember that when someone tries to get you to do something out of fear or because it's your moral obligation you should simply turn a deaf ear their way. You simply need to think about this in a business like manner and not do things because you are fearful or feel obligated. Learn what your rights are under the law and demand that others recognize them and don't let them push you around.

[email]ceo@creditwrench.com[/email] [url]http://www.creditwrench.com[/url]

Originally posted by nicci90630
State: Illinois

My question is what will happen next. I am assuming that the collections guy is going to send the thing to the lawyers. Will they issue a lein? What is a lein? OR Judgement? how does that work? We have always had every intention of paying this off, we just didnt realize that they wouldn't work with us on some sort of payment schedule once they sold the vehicle.

Also, will we have to sell our house? I am just wondering if anyone knows what will happen next.

If you do not pay them, they will eventually file suit against you and garnish 25% of your husband's wages. They will also file an abstract lien on your house. The only effect this will have is that you will be unable to sell, transfer, or refinance the property until the judgment is paid in full. Because you have assets (house and wages) don't count on them not being able to enforce your judgment.

Now, if you can't come up with the lump sum that is certainly understandable. Call them up and tell them you have no way to come up with a lump sum but you will make monthly payments. Chances are they will allow you to make monthly payments, on the TOTAL AMOUNT, not the DISCOUNTED AMOUNT. If you ever come into a lump sum of money, you can always call them at that point and offer to settle on the remaining balance.

I will address bbauer's crap in my next post.

Good luck.

[email]JASON@LEGISLATOR.COM[/email]

Originally posted by bbauer
No A lien is what is placed on the title of vehicles or other titled property when one borrows money against the title of property. There are other types of liens such as mechanics liens too, but lien on newly purchased property happens at the time of the new loan or purchase.

What about after they obtain judgment against her. They can certainly place a lien on her house then, or did you forget about this?

Usually not that well. National statistics seems to show that only about 20% of them are ever collected on. That does not mean that if you got one you would be lucky enough to fall into the 80% bracket which does not get collected and most especially so unless you learn how to do something about the judgment.

Most are defective and are null and void upon their face for various reasons. Most can therefore be vacated and if you are lucky you can get it vacated with prejudice meaning that it can never be brought up again in any court of law. You would have to learn enough about judgments and rules of civil procedure and what it takes to perfect a judgment in order to do that, but it's not real hard to do.

Here you go with this again! Haven't the other members of this forum humiliated you enough already? Collection agencies that sue are experts in judgment enforcement and you can count on someone who has her asset picture being a prime candidate for a wage garnishment. If judgment is entered it will be enforced. Most judgments are not null and void on their face, this is simply not true. Judgment's cannot be vacated with prejudice and in fact, when a judgment is vacated the lawsuit is just reopened, it doesn't cause it to be dismissed. After the judgment is vacated the defendant may file an answer and the litigation can proceed to a new judgment. You accomplish nothing by getting the judgment vacated, except that you will allow the judgment creditor to collect attorney fees beyond those specified in the court's default schedule. Getting a judgment vacated after it has been entered is a complicated legal process that a lay person would not be able to complete successfully in most cases.

All court cases must have affidavits in order to make them work.

No, they do not. If none of the allegations of the complaint are disputed by filing an ANSWER those allegations are accepted as FACTS by the court and a default judgment will be properly issued.

Just remember that when someone tries to get you to do something out of fear or because it's your moral obligation you should simply turn a deaf ear their way. You simply need to think about this in a business like manner and not do things because you are fearful or feel obligated. Learn what your rights are under the law and demand that others recognize them and don't let them push you around.

Good attitude. Nobody should pay back the money they owe. They should all try to avoid payment at any cost. If you borrow money from a bank, it is no different than borrowing from your neighbor. You don't think people should feel an obligation to pay what they owe? Sick.

How many times will you have to be corrected in this forum before you learn something? You make yourself out to be a complete idiot by spewing this nonsensible drivel. I *am* beginning to believe, since you have nothing to offer, that this is just an opportunity to promote your business that you can't pass up.

[email]JASON@LEGISLATOR.COM[/email]

[color=brown]Haven't the other members of this forum humiliated you enough already? [/color]

Fools are never an embarassment to me, only to themselves.

[color=brown] Collection agencies that sue are experts in judgment enforcement [/color]

An ex is a has-been and a pert is a little squirt of water. I say that the national average for collection on judgments is about 20% at best and the source of my information is Collections World Magazine and I reckon they ought to know if anyone does, so that proves you don't know what you are talking about again. Their membership consists of the biggest collection agencies in the world. All you got to back up your hot air is your own ignorance. You do have a right to be ignorant, but you abuse the priviledge with almost every post you make. This one is no exception and you just got it proved on you just like you already have several times today. Great start for the New Years. You ought to make a New Years resolution to go soak your head in a rain barrel full of Piranhas.

[color=brown] Most judgments are not null and void on their face, this is simply not true.[/color]

Again, Collections World Magazine disagrees with you

[color=brown] Judgment's cannot be vacated with prejudice and in fact, when a judgment is vacated the lawsuit is just reopened, it doesn't cause it to be dismissed.[/color]

That's strange. Somehow, the rules of civil procedure seem to disagree with you. Of course, I can't be expected to post the entire Rules of Civil Procedure up here to prove you wrong, but this exerpt will at least give readers a fair idea as to how dumb your statements really are.

Fraud, whether intrinsic or extrinsic, misrepresentation, or other misconduct of an adverse party are express grounds for relief by motion under amended subdivision (b). There is no sound reason for their exclusion. The
incorporation of fraud and the like within the scope of the rule also removes confusion as to the proper procedure. It has been held that relief from a judgment obtained by extrinsic fraud could be secured by motion within a "reasonable time," which might be after the time stated in the rule had run. Fiske v Buder, CCA 8th, 1942, 125
F2d 841; see also inferentially Bucy v Nevada Construction Co. CCA 9th, 1942, 125 F2d 213. On the other hand, it has been suggested that in view of the fact that fraud was omitted from original Rule 60(b) as a ground for relief, an independent action was the only proper remedy. Commentary, Effect of Rule 60(b) on Other Methods of Relief From Judgment, 1941, 4 Fed Rules Serv 942, 945. The amendment settles this problem by making
fraud an express ground for relief by motion; and under the saving clause, fraud may be urged as a basis for relief by independent action insofar as established doctrine permits. See Moore and Rogers, Federal Relief from Civil Judgments, 1946, 55 Yale L J 623, 653--659; 3 Moore's Federal Practice, 1938, 3267 et seq. And the rule
expressly does not limit the power of the court, when fraud has been perpetrated upon it, to give relief under the saving clause. As an illustration of this situation, see Hazel-Atlas Glass Co. v Hartford Empire Co. 1944, 322 US 238, 88 L Ed 1250, 64 S Ct 997.

[color=brown] After the judgment is vacated the defendant may file an answer and the litigation can proceed to a new judgment. You accomplish nothing by getting the judgment vacated, except that you will allow the judgment creditor to collect attorney fees beyond those specified in the court's default schedule. [/color]

The court's default is exactly that, a fault, de or otherwise. The Federal Courts have ruled that attorneys may not demand any fees whatever from a defendant in a judgment since the attorney has no contract with a debtor nor has he performed any service for the debtor.

An attorney only has a client relationship with the creditor and it is to the creditor to whom he must look for his fees, not the debtor. Therefore an attorney who demands and gets attorney fees from a debtor through judgment has committed a fraud upon the court, he has committed a fraud upon the debtor and he is liable for unlimited damages and loss of his authority to practice law upon conviction of a felony against the defendant. It's not easy to get the job done, but it can be done and it has been done and it has been done by pro se litigants. Pretty hard to get one thief to go after another in a court of law.

The judgment will always be overturned for fraud on those grounds alone although it may have to be taken to higher courts to get justice. You want to keep on telling me what the courts have ruled and I'll pop the cases up here so fast it'll make your fool head swim.

[color=brown]Getting a judgment vacated after it has been entered is a complicated legal process that a lay person would not be able to complete successfully in most cases.[/color]

Yeah, it's really tough. You file some papers with the court and go to court and laugh all the way to the bank. And no, it's not anywhere near that easy, but at least that's the essence of it. Good enough to explain it to a boob like you. And if somebody did have to take it to an appellate level, yes, he would need an attorney.

Even to file motion to vacate in small claims court he needs to have his work reviewed by a competent legal person. I recommend going to a University Law school and seeking out a professor for suggestions and help and guidance. What usually happens is that the professor will look over the work and assign it to a senior law student to work with.

They often do it for free because the student needs the practice of preparing court papers. Sometimes the student feels he needs some compensation and sometimes the compensation is required by the college albeit a small amount. No matter how good a pro se thinks he is, he still needs to get professionals to look over his work and spot any errors he might have made. No one should ever attempt to do anything at all in a court of law without some assistance from professionals. They just need to steer clear of boobs like you.

Originally posted by bbauer
Fools are never an embarassment to me, only to themselves. An ex is a has-been and a pert is a little squirt of water. I say that the national average for collection on judgments is about 20% at best and the source of my information is Collections World Magazine and I reckon they ought to know if anyone does, so that proves you don't know what you are talking about again.

Cite please. The magazine is available online. I couldn't find these particular statistics. Please provide a cite.

[QUOTETheir membership consists of the biggest collection agencies in the world. All you got to back up your hot air is your own ignorance.[/quote]

Until you provide a cite, all you have is your ignorance my friend.

You do have a right to be ignorant, but you abuse the priviledge with almost every post you make. This one is no exception and you just got it proved on you just like you already have several times today. Great start for the New Years. You ought to make a New Years resolution to go soak your head in a rain barrel full of Piranhas.

Blah, blah, blah. I was not proved, or proven wrong. The information you posted was regarding fraud. Good luck getting a judgment vacated on this basis. And you trumpet vacating a judgment like it's a great victory! All it does is REOPEN THE LITIGATION! Big Deal!

Again, Collections World Magazine disagrees with you That's strange. Somehow, the rules of civil procedure seem to disagree with you. Of course, I can't be expected to post the entire Rules of Civil Procedure up here to prove you wrong, but this exerpt will at least give readers a fair idea as to how dumb your statements really are. The court's default is exactly that, a fault, de or otherwise. The Federal Courts have ruled that attorneys may not demand any fees whatever from a defendant in a judgment since the attorney has no contract with a debtor nor has he performed any service for the debtor.

First of all (laughing at this) the magazine you are refering to is Collections & Credit Risk. Their website is collectionsworld.com. You can't even get the name of the magazine right :-)! Why don't you just cite a case in which you were able to successfully vacate a judgment using the section of the Code of Civil Procedure you cited. I'll be looking forward to that. :-). But you'll just ignore my requests for you to substantiate your statements the same way you ignored Halkert's. You just continue with your childish BS.

You are absolutely wrong about attorney fees. The plaintiff is allowed to recover their attorney fees from the defendant in almost all cases. Especially credit and collection cases because in these contracts there is almost always a provision for the recovery of attorney fees. The court doesn't award attorney fees to the attorney, the judgment, and the attorney fees contained therein are awarded to the Plaintiff - but you should know this, shouldn't you?

An attorney only has a client relationship with the creditor and it is to the creditor to whom he must look for his fees, not the debtor. Therefore an attorney who demands and gets attorney fees from a debtor through judgment has committed a fraud upon the court, he has committed a fraud upon the debtor and he is liable for unlimited damages and loss of his authority to practice law upon conviction of a felony against the defendant. It's not easy to get the job done, but it can be done and it has been done and it has been done by pro se litigants. Pretty hard to get one thief to go after another in a court of law.

You're right, that is why the court awards attorney fees to the creditor - so they may be recovered. The creditor is not forced by the law to just expend attorney fees and not recover them. The only reason they have to expend them in the first place is because the debtor has breached the contract by failing to pay as agreed. The law should not, and does not, punish the creditor for the debtors breach of contract. They have commited no fraud upon the court! Where do you come up with this crap? You write it like you believe it but I am starting to wonder ;-).

The judgment will always be overturned for fraud on those grounds alone although it may have to be taken to higher courts to get justice. You want to keep on telling me what the courts have ruled and I'll pop the cases up here so fast it'll make your fool head swim.

This does not happen. Let's see the cases...don't waste our time, just post them. It is not FRAUD to award a plaintiff attorney fees. Especially in cases where there is a contract that provides for the payment of attorney fees.

Yeah, it's really tough. You file some papers with the court and go to court and laugh all the way to the bank. And no, it's not anywhere near that easy, but at least that's the essence of it. Good enough to explain it to a boob like you. And if somebody did have to take it to an appellate level, yes, he would need an attorney.

They would also need an attorney to draft a motion to vacate the judgment. Or do you know a lot of lay people that can draft a legal motion with full points and aurthorities and successfully argue in in court? Please.

Even to file motion to vacate in small claims court he needs to have his work reviewed by a competent legal person. I recommend going to a University Law school and seeking out a professor for suggestions and help and guidance. What usually happens is that the professor will look over the work and assign it to a senior law student to work with.

This wouldn't be true in small claims court. There, if you lose, you are entitled to a trial de novo. It is a simple one page form. This, again, is something you should have already known.

They often do it for free because the student needs the practice of preparing court papers. Sometimes the student feels he needs some compensation and sometimes the compensation is required by the college albeit a small amount. No matter how good a pro se thinks he is, he still needs to get professionals to look over his work and spot any errors he might have made. No one should ever attempt to do anything at all in a court of law without some assistance from professionals. They just need to steer clear of boobs like you.

Yes, well the law student may help them draft the motions, but most law schools will NOT sanction this activity fearing lawsuits from people such as yourself. Also, the law student will not be there with the poor person in court when faced with a judge demanding clarification on the fine points of law raised in the motion's points and authorities.

I imagine you will be gone soon. This crap is really getting old. You are so misguided it was laughable, now it is becoming annoying.

[email]JASON@LEGISLATOR.COM[/email]

Well, Thank you both for your informative and interesting reply's. Gives me a lot to digest and think about.

But, I tell ya, some of these people can be so rediculous. They dont seem to want to accept payments of any sort. Which I suppose is thier right. But really, if we could afford to pay a lump sum, obviously, we would, and the guy that hubby had talked to several times gave him several places to go to borrow the money, but no one would loan it, and the collections guy had to know it.

The original lease is through Bank One in Wisconsin, which is out of state for us, we are in Illinois. If they sue us to get the money, which I imagine they will (but haven't heard anything yet), will they come here to do it? Like use the courts here or how would that work?

I guess we have to wait to see what they do, unless I call them tomorrow and ask what the status is, and see again if they would be able to work something out to pay the full amount in payments...

Thanks again guys,
Nicci

[color=brown]Cite please. The magazine is available online. I couldn't find these particular statistics. [/color]

All of their articles are not on line. You have to subscribe to their magazine to get the better stuff.

If you are too cheap to subscribe then that's your problem.

Originally posted by bbauer
All of their articles are not on line. You have to subscribe to their magazine to get the better stuff.

If you are too cheap to subscribe then that's your problem.

Actually bbauer I do subscribe to Collections & Credit Risk. You obviously do not since you didn't know the correct name of the publication. You would think having the cover of the magazine staring you in the face you couldn't make such a mistake.

However, what you were refering to in your post, was the website creditworld.com. You said the statistics came from that site, so let's see the cite. Provide it - we're waiting. Maybe you're too busy trying to clear up your $188 tax warrant. LOL

[email]JASON@LEGISLATOR.COM[/email]

But, I tell ya, some of these people can be so rediculous. They dont seem to want to accept payments of any sort. Which I suppose is thier right.

Yes, it is their right.

But really, if we could afford to pay a lump sum, obviously, we would, and the guy that hubby had talked to several times gave him several places to go to borrow the money, but no one would loan it, and the collections guy had to know it.

Of course he did. It was just his way of laughing at you. These collections idiots haven't a care in the world what they do to other people.

That will be evidenced in a very short time by 3 or 4 bird brain idiots who will be posting a bunch of crap about me trying to put me down over some bills I owe too. They get their jollies trying to make me look like some kind of idiot. All they do is trash up the whole place so nobody gets any good out of it.

They don't realize they are stealing the bandwidth of those who pay for this system. They don't care.

They trash it up so bad that nobody will come and pay any attention to the advertisements that companies pay this system good money for and ruin what the advertisers paid for. They don't care.

Won't take long before there won't be anything left here but a few old fools fighting among themselves and nobody paying them any attention at all. They don't care.

I just egg them on so people that have problems will get tired of their antics and get away from them and go somewhere they can get decent people to help them and let the fools keep on fighting over nothing.

The original lease is through Bank One in Wisconsin, which is out of state for us, we are in Illinois. If they sue us to get the money, which I imagine they will (but haven't heard anything yet), will they come here to do it?

Yes, they have to sue in the state you live in most of the time. There are some special circumstances under which that might not be true, but if you have lived in Illinois for a few years, that won't be likely to bother you.

Like use the courts here or how would that work?

There are quite a few different ways they work. No use trying to explain much of anything in here anymore. The board is so crapped up with the trash the bandwidth thieves are throwing around trying to ruin the board that you won't know who to believe anyway. These guys are all collections lawyers and repo trash and judgment collectors. All the low life types. They trash every board they can find so people can't find out how to get their problems fixed. You might as well start looking for somewhere else to go. This one is dead meat now.

I guess we have to wait to see what they do, unless I call them tomorrow and ask what the status is, and see again if they would be able to work something out to pay the full amount in payments...

Don't waste your time. You already got the answers and begging isn't going to help you anymore than posting on this board will. Go find somewhere else to get your answers. There are lots of these boards around, and the smaller ones are the best. These clowns are all over the big boards like this one and a couple more. The smaller ones are a little harder to find and it takes them a while to find them all. You have to get to one, check it out and see if it's full of this same kind of junk and if it isn't, ask your questions and get gone before they find it. Once they get there it's all over. You can tell real quick by just looking at a few of the messages and you see people fighting then just move on. You will learn in the meantime and keep yourself out of the messes. I'll probably see you on one of the other boards because I make them all. There are lots of nice peaceful boards out there, but this isn't one of them.

Just watch for their trash. You will see what I mean real quick.

All smoke and mirrors.... He'll never change.

huh? who will never change?

I could never come up with a complete list of his aliases, but BBAUER.... That's who.

to the author......Let the smoke settle**************Your in the first phase of collections where things are guided by the creditor for an outcome of thier best wishes.....Another words,,,,their may indeed be avenues for payment and you may have thought of some that will work however they will not be made available to you in such a short time....

Collections is procedural .

A company will work in phases for the very good reason that they must to avoid having everyone who has a problem request the least beneficial resolution for the creditor. This may sound funny,,however you must earn the right or pay the price to a resolution that is less than ticket value. Creditors will tend to expend up to a level of energy for each phase. At the time a resolution works for you then you should consider it as each time the debt is sold or passed to another agency then the phases begin again.....possibly until the time a court settles it and/or you resort to bankruptcy protection)...Some debts may seem to go out to sea however sometimes they come back unexpected.
Save your energy early on, instead offer your best ability**************If it is not taken, then suggest the caller try you back at a later time. as You'll have to find the right tree to bark up**************
Take some time to learn applicable state and federal collection laws. The education will lessen your anxiety which will help in making better descisions.
By no means is the above a declaration to ignore a debt **************.What you don't pay with assets on schedule, you will pay in other ways which to the least is an unsatisfactory credit rating**************....

Bkev2002

What did he do to you?