Pls advice, pay or wait?

[a_vind]

What is the name of your state? NE-Nebraska

Hi, I have old debts about 2 accounts (personal loan to buy notebooks) with same bank which is originally in MA state. I got the first account opened when I was in GA-Georgia in march 2001, and then we moved TN-Tennesse and got second account opned in Aug 2001. I could paid installments for both accounts till sept,2001 only as I was laid off by my employer. I left US as my visa is employment purpose.

I did not know what happened to those accounts as I have never inquired.
I came back to US again in 2003, sept on a job and lived in NJ almost a year till Oct, 2004.

Because of my job change, I moved to NE in oct, 2004. Now the point is that these 2 accounts have been charged-off already.

Suddenly last 2 weeks ago, I got a call from one collection agent about these accounts that I owe around $4000.00. I said I want to settle these accounts with a single payment of $2000 which I am capable of, and also I said him stories that I was not in the country since I lost my job in 2001 and so on..

He said he will consult the OC and let me know abt the settling the 2 accounts for $2000. He called me yesterday again and told that OC could pull my credit and could see accounts opened with other creditors and are being paid regularly from past 1 year. So, they cant give me the discount and have to pay completely.

And he was also telling that OC may go to court to sue me, and then could garnish my wages or checking account/ or inform other creditors NOT to have accounts with me( Is it possible)...

Please advice me what I need to do now, shall I pay it off...or wait until SOL date completes as I guess it is coming closer...how would I determine the SOL date for my case, MA (OC address) or GA (my residance when my first account opned) or TN (my residance when my second account opned) or NE (currently residing ) ??

Thanks
avind

[a_vind]

Please someone help me...

[Debt Guy]

Well, you are asking a question that is really hard to answer. The answer to part of your question is a matter of opinion and another part is facts that are difficult to untangle.

Should you pay what you owe? Yes. You've not given any indication of your inability to repay or what causes that inability. The fact that the OC has rejected your settlement offer is at least some evidence of their belief that you have the ability to repay. The fact that you are paying other creditors also is some support for that belief.

Perhaps you can counter back for an amount higher than 50%. A 50% settlement usually means that the debtor is having some pretty serious financial problems but not so severe as to result in imminent bankruptcy.

The fact that the accounts have been charged off means nothing in terms of your liability. Charge off is an accounting term and only means that the creditor has charged the loan against earnings.

Where would they sue you and under what SOL? I'm no expert. My common sense says to me that they would sue you in federal court and sue under the laws of either the creditors domicle or the state in which you lived when you applied for the credit.

I think you can count on the fact that the creditor smells blood and will do whatever to make sure the SOL does not lapse. The odds of your being sued are, in my opinion, high.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer. You are not a client. You have paid nothing for this opinion and advice. It is worth what you have paid for it. Perhaps it is even dangerous for you to take this advice. If you want real advice, get off the internet and hire a local attorney to answer your questions.

[olgethorpe]

Personally, I'd suggest you jump over to the discussion forums at:

[url]http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/[/url]

you need to do some "debt validation" on these accounts before you make any decisions. While <b>debtguy</b> is right that "charge off" is an accounting term, if the orginal creditor has sold this debt to someone else, then its a whole different cricket match. You need to make the collector prove they've got the right person, the right amount, and the right to collect.

There are lots of dishonest collection agencies out there that try to take advantage of people who don't know their rights.

And...if its a CA that has the debt now, the odds of you being sued are questionalbe.

[Debt Guy]

Oglethorpe

According to his post, the OC still has the debt.

[olgethorpe]

Really hard to tell if that's true or not. The OC says "charge off" and the OP was contacted by a "collection agent". We both know its standard practice for a CA to lie on the phone about "talking with the OC" when in fact they're checking the CRs to see if there's money to be had.

Regardless...if the OP was contacted by a CA...DV is the right thing to do.

[a_vind]

Yeah, as Oglethorpe said, the OC still has the debt with him only. It seems OC hired a collection agent called CCS.

So, what do I do next, shall I call CCS and negotiate further more for around 70% discount! Please instruct me withe steps I need to take before pay this off .

Thanks a lot.
avind

[a_vind]

Originally Posted by olgethorpe

Really hard to tell if that's true or not. The OC says "charge off" and the OP was contacted by a "collection agent". We both know its standard practice for a CA to lie on the phone about "talking with the OC" when in fact they're checking the CRs to see if there's money to be had.

Regardless...if the OP was contacted by a CA...DV is the right thing to do.

Make sence to me...but as per my previous tele-conversation to CCS abt to reduce the debt 50%, CCS told me that they have to send an email to the OC and see if they agree. CCS called me a week later after that and told me that OC did not aggreed for 50% as they could see my current financial situtaion in my credit report.
So, what should be my next step.

[olgethorpe]

I suggest again you go to the other site I mentioned for guidance. But....

NEVER talk with a collection agency on the phone. They make their money by lying and intimidation and coercing people into doing something they may not have to do. Think of it as someone walking up you on the street and saying, "hey...I know you had a MasterCard, and you didn't pay it...I'm collecting on it...give me $2000 and we'll fix your credit."

You need to put these peoplle through the DV process. Maybe you did/do owe somebody, but without written documentation you have no way of knowing these guys have anything to do with it. AND, more importantly, you have no way of knowing that if you do pay them, the original debt will be settled.

What usually happens when a debt is "charged off" is that its sold to a Junk Debt Buyer for pennies on the dollar. When the JDB calls you on the phone they may claim to be representing the orignal creditor when in truth the OC has nothing to do with it.

[Debt Guy]

OK. You are getting advice from two different points of view.

Oglethorpe says all CAs are liars and you should demand validation just on general principle.

Under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you have that right. Validation is not a panacea. Depending on where you are in lapsed time from the original contact by the CA, then a validation request may not stop the collection calls and would not stop a lawsuit. There is no requirement under the FDCPA that the CA actually validate the debt. The FDCPA only says they must cease collection activity until validated provided that the request is made within 30 days of the original contact by the CA.

So sending the validation request does in itself hurt anything. But, it will not necessarily make your decision for you.

I see things a little differently. Most CAs are mostly honest and some are notoriously liars and create the impression, image and urban myth that all are liars. Just call the OC directly and talk with them. They will tell you whether or not it has been sold. Sold or not, they probably won't make a deal with you but will just refer you back to the CA. They would have no reason to not tell you the status. Another way to check would be to buy a copy of your credit report and see how it is listed. If the OC has sold the account, it should be reported as such. This is a less reliable way since there is always a delay in reporting to the Credit Reporting Agency and there are lots of errors on credit reports.

So, as Oglethorpe suggests, do some more research. Decide what you want.

If you don't think you owe the debt, then fight it tooth and nail.

If you owe it and can't afford to pay, either settle it or fight it and obfuscate into order to buy time until you can pay it.

If you owe it and just want to beat the creditor out of what you owe, then delay, obfuscate, run up their costs, try to trip them up, threaten, file a lawsuit, etc. etc. That works for some people if they are willing to put in the effort. There are websites that professes to teach those tricks. I think one of the best is [url]www.artofcredit.com[/url]. Credit Info Center is also good.

If you want to go this path, then you commit youself to the time required to learn what to do and how -- no one is going to do it for you or make your decision for you. Also, in my opinion, you will still get sued. Like I said earlier, they smell blood in the water. Being sued is not the end of the world. Sometimes that is what it takes into order to win. In court, the burden of proof is on the plantiff. The defendant (you) can use that to your advantage provided you know what to do and how to do it.

[olgethorpe]

Okay...two different point of view. Hmmmm.

First...all CAs are liars...that's how and why they get paid. But, even if they weren't...mistakes do get made. You need to make sure one wasn't made in your case.

Second....the FDCPA only states that IF you don't respond within 30 days, the CA can ASSUME the debt is valid and continue collection activity. You don't give up your rights by missing the deadline. You can ask for validation at any time...and once they receive your letter (which should include the words "only communicate with me in writing") they may only call you one more time...to tell you what their intentions are.

Third...the OC is NOT bound by the FDCPA. They have no reason to be honest with you, if they'll talk with you at all. Whereas a CA is restricted in what they can legally tell you (doesn't stop them from lying unless you're recording) the OC can call you names, threaten to take your property, and tell you they'll put you in jail.

And fourth...this has nothing to do with whether or not your originally owed somebody some money. Its about making sure that IF you do decide to pay someone, it has a positive effect on your credit report.

Will you get sued? Maybe. But if you follow the DV process and learn your rights you may be able to fight back...

[Debt Guy]

I offer these comments in the spirit of educating.

1. Not all CAs are liars. Some are. Since neither of us can prove the other wrong, lets just agree that we disagree.
2. The debtor does give up certain rights by not responding during the 30 days following the initial communication. The debtor may ask for validation (a DV) at any time (even after the 30 days) but the CA is only obligated to cease collection activity if the request was made during the 30 day period. Regardless, when the request was made, there is no obligation for the CA to ever validate anything -- unless, the request was made during the 30 day period and they wish to continue collecting.
3. There is no such thing as "communicate to me only in writing". You can say it but you can't enforce it. The FDCPA only provides for a "cease and desist" which means don't communicate to me in any fashion. The FDCPA does not provide for a limited C&D. If the debtor sends a C&D, then the collector may not contact the debtor again except to notify them they are ceasing collections or to notify the debtor they are taking legal action.
4. Neither a DV or C&D will stay the collector from legal action. The FDCPA does not define legal action as a collection activity.
5. I agree that the OC is not bound by the FDCPA since they are not a third party collector. However, it is awfully cynical to assume that the OC has a sinister intent to lie to the debtor about the status of the debt. Why? In some ways, OCs are subject to all sorts of problems for lying, including complaints to the federal banking supervisors, states attorney general, senators and congressmen, etc., all of whom would take a dim view of a federally chartered bank going around telling lies. Besides, it is bad business from the point of view of the bank since those "official inquiries" are expensive to handle and respond to.
6. Every consumer should know their rights. Go to [url]www.ftc.gov[/url] and download a copy of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and read it for yourself.

[a_vind]

Okay, I have some news now.

Y'day I called CA and told that I can only pay $2500 and they told OC is not agreeding for that too even. And CCS also informed me that they will intimate OC that I am refusing to pay the amount but willing to settle the account for 2500.

Today I called OC to see if they can do anything for me. OC said I do not have to respond to CA anymore as the my account has been returned back to OC.

I told them the same that I could only pay $2500 to settle the account. They said the last they can do is 3200.

[olgethorpe]

Well the fact that the debt got bounced back to the OC could mean several things:

1. The CA's contract to collect ran out, and the OC is going to try another, nastier CA.

2. The CA tried to validate the debt and the OC couldn't provide the documentation.

3. The OC checked your credit reports and sees that you have been paying other people, so they want their money.

Hard to tell. My advice is wait for another letter from someone (probably another CA) or a phone call from the OC.

The words "refusing to pay" is one of the intimidation phrases CA and OCs uses to make it sound like you're a nasty person. You're not refusing, you're just telling them you don't have the money. And, if you're dealing with a CA, you're telling them "prove to me you have the right person, the right amount, and the right to collect".

[a_vind]

Thanks. I will wait and see till their next letter/phone call to me.