Update on Citibank woes

What is the name of your state? Illinois

I just wanted to follow up on my original post entitled "Citibank Woes" --

Today I tried calling them and offering money - I asked to speak to a collections supervisor - they would not let me speak to one - they kept saying it was "past that point" and that I needed to speak with the attorney's office. I said "I am wanting to pay you in full" but that made no difference.

So I called the attorney's office. So before I offered the payment in full, I wanted to hear what he had to say. He started off by asking me if I had any questions - and I said yes, that in the letter I received from them it stated "our client has advised us that you have notified it to cease collection efforts" and I wondered what that meant. He said "Well that is when you told them not to call you or write anymore" - I said that had never happened - he didn't seem to believe me (I was not surprised) and went into a thing about how all that is "in the past" and that I have to deal with what is happening "now" -- to which I agree with to some extent, but the thing of it is apparently that is the whole reason supposedly that Citibank turned our account over to them.

So I asked him about settlement - he said that it could not be settled as I had missed that chance with Citibank. I asked him how I was supposed to know that I needed to approach them with a settlement - because I thought my acct was ok, had called, and had made a payment within the last 90 days? He then said that he didnt know, started to say "That was in the past" and I cut him off and said "Something doesnt seem quite legal about that - I have not been given any warning this account was in danger of being closed, which the calls I had made and payments made me think it was ok - just a little behind - but then it gets closed and I have no options other than to pay approx 4500 to you within 30 days?" He then said "You might want to consult legal counsel on that issue, but I am telling you that you owe the money now."

Ok - so then he went through a big "counseling" thing as to where I could "look for money" -- I told him I could pay a very large part of it now, and then divide the other part into 2 payments and send that to them - essentially, it was over half now, then 2 $1000 payments in August and September. He would not accept that - he said I had to make full payment by 8/25 or they would begin the filing - he said that nothing had been done yet but that they would not let it go more than to the 25th of August. I said "Even if I have made a payment plan and you are getting the money within 60 days" And he said "No" and I said what if I pay some, but can't pay it all by then - and he said that they would still file, and that he would actually recommend I didnt pay ANYTHING if that were the case. I asked why, and he said, well, you would still have a judgement against you but it would be for a smaller amount. I thought that was a ridiculous thing to say as someone supposed to be collecting a debt for a creditor!

So he said we had to call him back in 2 days and let him know what we planned to do. I then asked him if we paid it all, how would it appear on our credit report? He said nothing would appear - and I said but there would be something from the credit card company saying they had closed the account - he said yes, but it would also show it had been paid. He said that I "should be" able to call them back after I make payment and they would remove the fact they closed the account and just leave it as closed and paid in full. I asked about fees - he said there would be no fees if it were paid in full.

We can pull almost all of our savings, and with money coming in from our jobs, we can pay them the 4500 by the deadline, and that is what we plan to do.

But i have some questions:
1. What about the fact he mentioned checking with counsel on the fact the card had been closed but that the circumstances were not correct? At no time have either myself or my husband asked for his account to be closed or that the collection attempts stop, or that contact be stopped. For cryin out loud - I called them and told them about my husbands illness and that we were trying to keep up. Is this anything to pursue? I mean somebody somewhere should have noted the circumstances of the request?

2. Do I need to write to them and validate the debt? I am confused as to what their role is - they are an attorney's office (Blatt, Hasenmiller) and they are acting on Citibank's behalf. Does that mean they are the collection agency - I am confused.

3. When I send payment, I assume I will be mailing it to them. How can I be sure it is going to go on this Citibank account?

I am also wondering if the "only one month to pay this off" is somewhat excessive, or is that they way they all operate?

Thank you for any responses - it is helping me more than you all could ever realize.

Sarah

[bigun]

Sara,

Something makes no sense. You say you last made a payment in April but, was it for the agreed amount? And, were all of your payments prior to April in the agreed amounts {I mean the minimum payment that Citi had printed on the statement}? It sounds like your account was charged off.

I think at the minimum you need assurances from someone that this lawyer has the authority to collect for Citi. I think I'd demand validation and, a copy of there agreement to collect for Citi. You may also want to post this a [url]www.creditnet.com[/url]

Something makes no sense. You say you last made a payment in April but, was it for the agreed amount? And, were all of your payments prior to April in the agreed amounts {I mean the minimum payment that Citi had printed on the statement}? It sounds like your account was charged off.

Yes - all payments prior to April were in the amounts billed - the minimums were low, monthly payments were only around 82.00 - I usually paid a little more on them. The last payment posted 4/8 and it was for 81.19 which was the amount they had asked for on the statement. I thought I had made a May payment - I show it marked on the bill as well as in my checkbook - but it was not in my cancelled checks. The last statement I received from them showed a past due of 168.81 and I had not made a June payment. I had called them in the meantime and told them I was trying to keep my account paid - the payments were there but sometimes 4-5 days late, but not any real delinquency.

You can see why this makes no sense to me - they are acting like I wrote them and said "never contact me anymore" and would be willing to go through all of this for what? 169 bucks? It seems to me like my account was mistakenly noted that we had asked them to stop contacting us and then they charged it off - but I can't see how they could do that without any notice.

I am thankful that we can pay it all - but it will make me very nervous as we will have lost the little savings cushion we had. I am trying to go by Dave Ramsey's principles and become debt free, paying off credit cards, etc and we were doing ok - have not charged anything in almost a year - it is the interest that keeps adding up. We have a couple of other cards with balances and I am chipping at them, always making the minimums on them all or a little more until my husband became ill.

I just feel sort of victimized if this is all a result of some person keying in something wrong on our account that said we didnt want contact anymore and werent going to pay. I realize that things are turned over for a reason, but it is so frustrating to me that no one will actually look at this and see that it just doesnt make sense. Of course they may see that now but they know they have us over a barrel and we will pay, so I guess why not just say they can't do anything about it. ::::sigh::::

If I write and ask for the validation should I call the man back on Monday and tell him we're paying something?

I will post this over at the other site - I have been reading it, too. Any followups anyone might have are still appreciated, and thank you Bigun for your advice.

[Jeter]

So SaraSmile, in answer to your question and in an effort to ease your mind a bit, let me explain the game of collections to you. Here's how it works 95 out of 100 times from the inside of collection agencies:

Collectors are nothing more that commission based salespeople. They are paid a commission based on the amount they collect. So their job is to get your money at almost any cost. Your account is listed in a database with your account info and last date paid and it is passed around an automatic dialer many times per day to whichever telemarketer may recieve your info. The last person to speak to you usually makes a note on the account so the next person has something to go by. The chances of someone keying in the wrong info- or no info for you are very likely because the only thing they care about is that they got no money on your call and they want to get to the next call so they can make a commission. That's why so many times people think it's odd that they just spoke to someone- or someone just told them something, or noted something- then they recieved a call as if they never spoke to anyone.

One thing I noticed in your post (which thankfuly was very precise) is what the attorney was saying to you. It is the normal language and phrasing used by a collector:

-"You might want to consult legal counsel on that issue, but I am telling you that you owe the money now."

-"past that point" and that I needed to speak with the attorney's office.

My point is that at no point did this attorney tell you flat out that if you do not pay by this "deadline", we will file suit against you.

The reason that legal recourse is almost always IMPLIED with unsecured debt collection is, if the agency SAYS they will sue you on a certain date they had better follow through, otherwise you can sue THEM for harrassment. It is illegal for a collector to threaten specific action on a specific date and not follow through.

You sound like you can make some sizeable payments so do so at YOUR level of ability, not theirs. This Lawyer/collector does NOT want to file suit against you for several reasons. Number 1 it's a waste of time and money for him. If you're making payments on your account he probably has no case. Most importantly, it's impractical for him. If a judgement is obtained, it will not be a judgement to pay in one payment. It will be a judgement for a specified amount of money paid out over a specified amount of time MUCH, MUCH longer than 1 month! This lawyer is pressing you for payment in full because he wants the account closed and he wants his cut for handling the account. Period.

Demand correspondance in writing. Then check the bottom portion of the correspondance sent to you by this lawyer. It will have something called the mini-miranda which starts out "This is an attempt to collect a debt..." It is mandatory by law that this statement appear on all billing sent to you by a collector. Now you know in fact- this is an attorney acting as a collector for Citicorp. He probably has a couple hundred just like yours.

SaraSmile- get together with your husband, figure out what you can realistically pay and tell THEM what you will pay. Whether they tell you it's unacceptable or not I can guarantee that when you check your bank account, you'll find the check you sent them had been cashed. I wouldn't worry about "consequences" arising from that. You can take THAT to the bank!

Jeter

Jeter, I have dealt with quite a few collection agencies as my husband and I pay off our debts.
However, I have never known the inside info before about how exactly they work.
Thank you for that enlightening post!

Originally posted by Jeter
Demand correspondance in writing. Then check the bottom portion of the correspondance sent to you by this lawyer. It will have something called the mini-miranda which starts out "This is an attempt to collect a debt..." It is mandatory by law that this statement appear on all billing sent to you by a collector. Now you know in fact- this is an attorney acting as a collector for Citicorp. He probably has a couple hundred just like yours.

SaraSmile- get together with your husband, figure out what you can realistically pay and tell THEM what you will pay. Whether they tell you it's unacceptable or not I can guarantee that when you check your bank account, you'll find the check you sent them had been cashed. I wouldn't worry about "consequences" arising from that. You can take THAT to the bank!

Jeter

Thank you Jeter for the insights. They did send me a letter and it does have in it "You are here by advised this is an attnept to collect a debt..."

One thing about this that is different is I am not speaking to different people, I have a contact person who takes care of the case but he is not an attorney, he said he works for them. But I assume it is the same thing, he is a collections person.

I still have one thing I am not clear on, so please if someone could answer this right away I would be most appreciative.

1) When I write them and validate the debt, should I wait to pay them until they send it? Should I tell the man I speak to that I have sent them a request for debt validation and that once I receive it, I will contact them? Why is it important to validate the debt?

My husband is of mind to "pay it and get it over with" but it would be SO MUCH easier if I was able to stretch this out a little bit. I do not want a judgement against my account and that is what my husband is fearful of -- we live in a very small town and he does not want anything in the paper. It bothers him to discuss this and so you all have helped me more than you know. Thank you.

We can send them $3000 right away. The other $1400 I can get by their deadline but it just all makes me nervous. I am afraid I will pay them and they will not pay Citibank or something.

Thank you all.

Food for thought...
Because it is now in collection, believe it or not, you have some barginning power. If you want to pay the entire amount, go ahead. I would recommend you shoot them a deal that would pay them 1/2 or so. Whether you pay them the full amount or half, it will still read the same on your credit report. You have satisfied a debt. Of course, GET IT IN WRITING.

Originally posted by baylorbear
Food for thought...
Because it is now in collection, believe it or not, you have some barginning power. If you want to pay the entire amount, go ahead. I would recommend you shoot them a deal that would pay them 1/2 or so. Whether you pay them the full amount or half, it will still read the same on your credit report. You have satisfied a debt. Of course, GET IT IN WRITING.

They have never said this was an option...I asked about settlement and he said the time for that was past - that I should have tried to settle before they received it. I told him that my account was in ok shape as far as I knew since we had been making payments on it (the minimums) and he said that it had to be paid in full by 8/25 or they would start legal action.

While I don't mind to pay in full - I would like more time to do it. I can't see how they would settle for less if they wouldn't allow me to pay them in full over 60 days or 90 days rather than 30?

I am not an attorney, but I do have experience in this area. It's all a game to the collection agency at this point.

I would recommend you contact the collection agency and tell them you have an extremely small window to settle this account. You are willing to pay them half of the total amount in one payment to settle the account. If they say "no" (which they will), then tell them they have 2 days to accept or they'll get nothing......they'll take it.

Originally posted by baylorbear
I am not an attorney, but I do have experience in this area. It's all a game to the collection agency at this point.

I would recommend you contact the collection agency and tell them you have an extremely small window to settle this account. You are willing to pay them half of the total amount in one payment to settle the account. If they say "no" (which they will), then tell them they have 2 days to accept or they'll get nothing......they'll take it.

I appreciate your advice - so if I try this approach - would it appear on my credit report as settled? They say now it would just appear as paid. Isn't settled a bad thing to have on the report?

The man I spoke to said if we couldnt pay the full amount by 8/25 then they would begin proceedings. The main thing I want to do is avoid anything in the courts or in the newspaper - my husband's condition just could not take that and I am honestly worried what would happen with him if it did.

Baylorbear I appreciate your advice - anything else you can tell me is most helpful.

Thank you all - SaraSmile

There is a 95% it will never end up in court. That's up to the collection agency. Bottom line is, it will show up on your report regardless of how you settle. This is probably bad advice, but the longer you go without paying, the less the creditor will accept. By the end of the year, they'll probably accept $1000.

Your call. Good luck

Here's the link to sample letters. It even has one for when you settle the debt for less.

[url]http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forms/[/url]

[Ladynred]

Very interesting trail here... and soooo typical of a collection agency. SaraSmile.. a couple of points I'd add.

1 - DO NOT tell this lawyer that you are sending a validation request letter. In this case, the surprise factor in this is on YOUR side. Make sure you send it Certified mail, return receipt requested too, so they cannot deny they got the letter. Sending a validation letter stops collection activity for 30 days, the amount of time they are alloted to provide validation, so it will buy you some time.

2 - IF you send them ANY money, do NOT send them a check from your checking account, use a cashiers check or money order. Sending them a personal check is like giving them an open door to your accounts !

3- The fairy story this collector is giving you about settlement is just that.. a big fat lie. You may not be able to settle with Citi, but you CAN settle it, so he's just blowing smoke at you.. more intimidation tactics.

Jeter-- EXCELLENT information in your post.. thanks !! They must REALLY get frustrated with me.. LOL.. I'm never home, except for maybe 1 night a week and I sure as heck never rerturn any of their stupid calls when I am home.. I have too many other things to do during my short time at home !!!

Ok - now I am really confused.

From all the advice I have read, it seems I need to validate the debt. I am looking at the forms - they seem to be for someone suffering identity theft?

I still don't know whether I should call the man and tell him I am sending a request for validation or not? Should I mention anything about sending an offer to settle if that is the way we choose, or just send the offer?

The thing that irks me is if they would say "Pay what you can now and have the balance to us in 60 days" then it's like it would all be taken care of. I just feel so much uncertainty as to what they will do and if I pay them the $3K this week that it will get credited to the Citi account.

I know I probably seem dense to everyone but I am afriad of screwing something up even worse than this.

Thanks, SaraSmile (whos not smiling much today)

NO, revise the letter(s) to fit your situation. Like take out the first line of the letter your referring to. But there is a sample letter to send the collector if they decide to lower the payoff.