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will I go to jail for credit card fraud?

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cyjeff

Senior Member
Did i say something untrue, I am only asking questions

would an attorney tell this guy not to accuse himself ?
Abe Lincoln once said, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

If you don't understand the fifth amendment, I suggest you research it before speaking.

That way, we don't unintentionally confuse people that come here for help... like, for instance, by saying, "credit card debt isn't actual debt".

Completely and utterly wrong... or else your paycheck and bank balance are equally worthless. Money is a fiction.... a governmentally backed piece of paper or electronic balance that signifies a defined measure of purchasing power. The paper money stuffed into your mattress has exactly the same value and worth as the electronically tracked value of the same amount in a checking account... or on a credit card statement.

I don't have the time to fully explain monetary theory and practice. I suggest you put in the time yourself.
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
i am waiting, can you just answer this little, simple and easy question?

if you cant answer responsively, then you must agree with me?
Oh you did NOT just say that.

Dillon, come ON! I have a toddler who refuses to use that argument based on the fact that it's ridiculous, futile and completely pathetic!
 

Dillon

Senior Member
That way, we don't unintentionally confuse people that come here for help... like, for instance, by saying, "credit card debt isn't actual debt".
In order to constitute a loan, there must be a contract whereby one party transfers to the other a sum of money. See: U.S. v. Neifert White, 247 F.Supp. 878.

A loan may be defined as the delivery by one party to, and the receipt by another of a sum of money. See: Kirkland v. Bailes, 155 S.E. 2d 701. (Yet the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago says in Modern Money Mechanics that banks make loans by promising to lend.) (However a promise to lend cannot be enforced. In order to constitute a loan, money must be loaned, but banks make loans by promising to lend, and promises to lend cannot be enforced.) 5 MRSA.

The thing given or taken in exchange must be specific and so distinguishable from things of like kind as to be clearly known and identifiable. See: Preston v. Keene, 14 Pet 133.

The extension of credit is not the giving of value. See: UCC 3-303:0; Atkinson v. Englewood State Bank, 141 Colo 436.

A loan is the creation of debt by the lenders agreement to pay MONEY TO THE DEBTOR. See: Maine Consumer Credit Code 9-A, Sec. 1.301 (23)(a)(1).

Banks extend credit, not money. See: National Bank v. Atkinson, 55 Fed. Rep. 571.

Fair and reasonable value means the best price to be at once in money -- cash being the antonym of credit-- cash value importing value in money. See: State v. Woodward, 93 SO 826, 208 Ala 31.
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
In order to constitute a loan, there must be a contract whereby one party transfers to the other a sum of money. See: U.S. v. Neifert White, 247 F.Supp. 878.

A loan may be defined as the delivery by one party to, and the receipt by another of a sum of money. See: Kirkland v. Bailes, 155 S.E. 2d 701. (Yet the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago says in Modern Money Mechanics that banks make loans by promising to lend.) (However a promise to lend cannot be enforced. In order to constitute a loan, money must be loaned, but banks make loans by promising to lend, and promises to lend cannot be enforced.) 5 MRSA.

The thing given or taken in exchange must be specific and so distinguishable from things of like kind as to be clearly known and identifiable. See: Preston v. Keene, 14 Pet 133.

The extension of credit is not the giving of value. See: UCC 3-303:0; Atkinson v. Englewood State Bank, 141 Colo 436.

A loan is the creation of debt by the lenders agreement to pay MONEY TO THE DEBTOR. See: Maine Consumer Credit Code 9-A, Sec. 1.301 (23)(a)(1).

Banks extend credit, not money. See: National Bank v. Atkinson, 55 Fed. Rep. 571.

Fair and reasonable value means the best price to be at once in money -- cash being the antonym of credit-- cash value importing value in money. See: State v. Woodward, 93 SO 826, 208 Ala 31.
Okay, I'll play.

Exactly what part of that did NOT happen here?

Not the crime of theft... the using of credit. Remember that signed document thingy you had to put your crayon "X" on before they handed you the shiny plastic?

That was a contract between you and the lender stating, in part, that for due consideration of X dollars in advanced monies you, the debtor, would willingly and promptly (according to the stipulated terms) return that money to said lender.

The extention of credit is not, in and of itself, value. However, once that credit is turned via use of the card into value by use of the buying power inherent in that transaction (the give and get necessary for a contract with the seller of goods), THEN the DEBT has value equal to the amount of that transaction and any agreed upon charges for that value amount.

That is why it is illegal to charge interest on unused credit balance.. because the unused portion of that balance has no value.

Let me save you some time here. My degree was in International Finance. I have taken, literally, a year of theory on this topic.

If you like, I can suggest some excellent text books or, better, a fine college atmosphere in which you will find the knowledge which you have displayed so eloquently is still beyond your grasp.

Just to make it clear... debt is legally binding upon those whom have entered into the contract for said debt. This has been upheld in every level of court.

Your argument has no value. Get it, value?
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Well, there is that one SpongeBob episode she hasn't seen in about two weeks....

(don't tell OG I invoked Big Yella again. I'm already in permanent time-out)
No SB in this house. But I won't tell. Don't want to bring the wrath of OG down on ya. She hasn't called me in awhile. I do need to talk to her. She actually drove right through South Cackalacky and didn't call - until she got back home. :mad:
 

Dillon

Senior Member
Okay, I'll play.

Exactly what part of that did NOT happen here?

Not the crime of theft... the using of credit. Remember that signed document thingy you had to put your crayon "X" on before they handed you the shiny plastic?

That was a contract between you and the lender stating, in part, that for due consideration of X dollars in advanced monies you, the debtor, would willingly and promptly (according to the stipulated terms) return that money to said lender.

The extention of credit is not, in and of itself, value. However, once that credit is turned via use of the card into value by use of the buying power inherent in that transaction (the give and get necessary for a contract with the seller of goods), THEN the DEBT has value equal to the amount of that transaction and any agreed upon charges for that value amount.

That is why it is illegal to charge interest on unused credit balance.. because the unused portion of that balance has no value.

Let me save you some time here. My degree was in International Finance. I have taken, literally, a year of theory on this topic.

If you like, I can suggest some excellent text books or, better, a fine college atmosphere in which you will find the knowledge which you have displayed so eloquently is still beyond your grasp.

Just to make it clear... debt is legally binding upon those whom have entered into the contract for said debt. This has been upheld in every level of court.

Your argument has no value. Get it, value?
Is the entire banking system a fraud? Is full and complete disclosure of all material facts given to all parties in all credit loan agreements? your the expert, Yes or No
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
Is the whole banking system a fraud? Is full disclosure of all material facts given to all parties is all credit card loan agreements? your the expert, Yes or No
No.

Wait, I need more letters.

No, you idiot.

By the way, when you are signing up for courses, get one in spelling and grammar. This is your mother tongue. Learn to speak it if you wish to appear wise.

It's tougher when you can't cut and paste everything, isn't it?
 

JKBee

Member
will I go to jail for a first time offense of credit card fraud, what is the minimum/maximum sentence for a white collar crime such as this with no other criminal background?

Everyone's comments are most interesting here, but this is what I was interested in getting opinions on. I would think she would get probation and have to do some public service or something. This is what I thought the thread was supposed to be about.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
Everyone's comments are most interesting here, but this is what I was interested in getting opinions on. I would think she would get probation and have to do some public service or something. This is what I thought the thread was supposed to be about.
It is.

The problem is that the theft has crossed the barrier into felony. That ups the penalty by an order of magnitude.

Jail time is certainly possible, though not probable IF the money is repaid prior to court.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
You believe that if it gives you comfort, LOL
Yeah.

I will just run off with the rest of the lawyers, bankers, legislators and judges to the land of make believe while YOU are the sole bastion of truth.

If the entire marching band is out of step but you, maybe THEY aren't the one that isn't on beat.
 
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