Does a notary have to be present?

[randy28303]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

My mother-in-law signed an agreement 3 years ago and now things have gone sour in the relationship between her and the other party. The agreement was signed by both parties and a notary but now she is claiming that there was not a notary present when she signed. Is this agreement still binding if a notary was in fact not present?

Also, on the agreement both parties have failed to do what was agreed upon. Does this also void the agreement?

Thanks all,

Randy

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

My mother-in-law signed an agreement 3 years ago and now things have gone sour in the relationship between her and the other party. The agreement was signed by both parties and a notary but now she is claiming that there was not a notary present when she signed. Is this agreement still binding if a notary was in fact not present?

Also, on the agreement both parties have failed to do what was agreed upon. Does this also void the agreement?

Thanks all,

Randy

if the notary was not present to witness the signatures, that is a major problem and could void the agreement. It could also cause the notary major problems and could result in him losing his notary position (for lack of a better word at this juncture). However without seeing the agreement, no one can comment on whether the agreement is void, voidable or enforceable.

 

[LdiJ]

if the notary was not present to witness the signatures, that is a major problem and could void the agreement. It could also cause the notary major problems and could result in him losing his notary position (for lack of a better word at this juncture). However without seeing the agreement, no one can comment on whether the agreement is void, voidable or enforceable.

I agree. I am a notary and I am required to actually witness the person signing the document, and see ID (if the person is not known to me) to prove they are who they say they are. However, it would have to be proven somehow that the notary was not present.

 

[randy28303]

if the notary was not present to witness the signatures, that is a major problem and could void the agreement. It could also cause the notary major problems and could result in him losing his notary position (for lack of a better word at this juncture). However without seeing the agreement, no one can comment on whether the agreement is void, voidable or enforceable.

good answer. being that this agreement is 3 years old is there a staute of limitaitons on how long she had to have it notarized with her present? since she never challenged the "no notary" in the past is it assumed that she accepted the fact that there never was a notary present? just curious on how a judge would handle...

thanks,

randy

 

[LdiJ]

good answer. being that this agreement is 3 years old is there a staute of limitaitons on how long she had to have it notarized with her present? since she never challenged the "no notary" in the past is it assumed that she accepted the fact that there never was a notary present? just curious on how a judge would handle...

thanks,

randy

Its not a question of accepting or not accepting that a notary was not present. The notarization is not valid if there was no notary present. However, the agreement could possibly still be valid even without a valid notarization.

 

[cbg]

To clarify; it is not the notary's stamp that makes an agreement enforceable. The notarization verifies that the people who signed the agreement are who they represent themselves to be. If the agreement is enforceable under the law, it is enforceable whether it is notarized or not; if it is not enforceable under the law, then a notary's stamp does not make it so.

A notary is not supposed to sign or seal any signatures that he or she did not personally witness. If it can be proven that the notary was not present, that's a major problem for the notary. However, it would have no effect on whether the agreement is enforceable. And if the identity of the signatories is not in question, then whether or not a notary was present is a moot point for any purpose but stripping the notary of his license.

 

[randy28303]

Thanks

Thanks to all that responded. I believe my question has been answered.

Randy

 

[>Charlotte<]

The signature(s) do(es) not have to be in the presence of a notary if the notary can produce a Verification of a Non-subscribing Witness.

 

[latigo]

if the notary was not present to witness the signatures, that is a major problem and could void the agreement. It could also cause the notary major problems and could result in him losing his notary position (for lack of a better word at this juncture). However without seeing the agreement, no one can comment on whether the agreement is void, voidable or enforceable.

Dear Ms. Ohio:

Please help me here and explain what would be the special nature or subject matter of any such an agreement that would require the formality of notarization in order to render the contract binding and enforceable?

Just because the genuineness of a signature or signatures to a given agreement has/have been sworn to before a notary public and the jurat attached - or appear to have been so sworn to - DOES NOT mean that it is a required formality.

There are countless more bilateral contracts that do not require such a formality than contracts that do. In fact that there are very few of the latter.

 

[LdiJ]

Dear Ms. Ohio:

Please help me here and explain what would be the special nature or subject matter of any such an agreement that would require the formality of notarization in order to render the contract binding and enforceable?

Just because the genuineness of a signature or signatures to a given agreement has/have been sworn to before a notary public and the jurat attached - or appear to have been so sworn to - DOES NOT mean that it is a required formality.

There are countless more bilateral contracts that do not require such a formality than contracts that do. In fact that there are very few of the latter.

I agree that a contract does not require notarization in many instances. However, if the contract itself requires notarization, which some contracts do, then it "could" (emphasis on could) void the contract. I have notarized many contracts/agreements that require notarization of the signature within the body of the contract.