Severence Package

[mdmmike13]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona, I was recently laid off from a co. I negotiated a severence package that included a few months of salary and clear title to my company vehicle. I followed up with an e-mail to the owner memorializing our conversation and the agreement we came to. I requested an e-mail confirmation from him for both our records. He did so and agreed to the terms. He is now wanting to change the terms and sell me the vehicle and renege on the salary. Do I have a contract that is enforcible if I need to? Can the agreement be changed at will after the fact?

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona, I was recently laid off from a co. I negotiated a severence package that included a few months of salary and clear title to my company vehicle. I followed up with an e-mail to the owner memorializing our conversation and the agreement we came to. I requested an e-mail confirmation from him for both our records. He did so and agreed to the terms. He is now wanting to change the terms and sell me the vehicle and renege on the salary. Do I have a contract that is enforcible if I need to? Can the agreement be changed at will after the fact?

The answer depends entirely on the wording of both the email and confirmation email that was returned to you. Without seeing the email content and wording, there's no way to know if it is legally binding and enforceable.

Your best bet would be to take the original email and return confirmation to an attorney to have them evaluate it for you.

 

[mdmmike13]

I was laid off 8-17-12. The agreement was made 8-18-12. I did not sign any releases.

Here are the e-mails, they are short and to the point (I have changed the names to reflect Employer and Employee for privacy). As far as attending the HOA meeting, I was out of town and no longer worked for the co. This was also never discussed in the original meeting. I did resond to this with an e-mail to employer, he did not respond back until his renege e-mail.


Employee,



I agree with the terms you set forth below. However, I would like you to attend the HOA meeting at (somewhere) with (other employee) just to wrap up the outstanding items. Please confirm.



Employer


Employer,

This e-mail is to follow up on our discussion Saturday 8-18-12. As part of the severance package, both parties (Employee and Employer) agreed on the following.


Employee will recieve 3 more full pay checks to be availible on the next 3 normal pay periods starting 8-24-12.


The 2005 Ford Sports Trac XLS will be paid in full and title turned over to Employee. Though there is a lease agreement between Employer and Employee, no monies will be collected toward the lease as per Employer.

If there are any questions as to clients, please feel free to contact me and I will help out if I can. I wish all of you a hopefull future.

Please respond for my records and yours.

Take Care,
Employee

 

[You Are Guilty]

So exactly what did you "give up" for this severance? In other words, without a detriment to you, this looks (to me) an awfully lot like a nice parting gift from your ex-employer. (And if it is a gift, then you cannot put conditions on how it is given).


{edit}
Did you have an employment contract (other than those emails) which called for you to receive severance?

 

[mdmmike13]

So exactly what did you "give up" for this severance? In other words, without a detriment to you, this looks (to me) an awfully lot like a nice parting gift from your ex-employer. (And if it is a gift, then you cannot put conditions on how it is given).

I gave up promissed commisions for the truck. And if it is a gift......are you saying the employer cannot make conditions or employee? And once something is gifted yet not given can it be reneged?


{edit}
Did you have an employment contract (other than those emails) which called for you to receive severance?

Employer states there is a company policy on severance but he has yet to show it to me. I am sure he is making it up after the fact. I did not have a written contract other than the orignal offer letter, which did not cover any of the above.

Still wondering if the E-mails are a binding contract.....

 

[swalsh411]

I don't think you have a contract at all. A valid contract requires consideration. You're not giving up anything of value nor performing anything of value for your (soon to be ex) employer. In other words, it's a gift and he changed his mind.

I hope you know you will need to pay taxes on the value of the vehicle if it ends up being given to you. Your employer should be including it on your W2.

Whether or not there is a policy on severance and whether or not he shows it to you is completely irrelevant.

 

[mdmmike13]

I don't think you have a contract at all. A valid contract requires consideration. You're not giving up anything of value nor performing anything of value for your (soon to be ex) employer. In other words, it's a gift and he changed his mind.

I hope you know you will need to pay taxes on the value of the vehicle if it ends up being given to you. Your employer should be including it on your W2.

Whether or not there is a policy on severance and whether or not he shows it to you is completely irrelevant.

I gave up promissed commisions for the truck.....

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I gave up promissed commisions for the truck.....

A few questions still remain: Were you actually owed the promised commissions? Some agreements require the employee to remain employed in order to earn commissions. If this is the case with your former employer, the promissed commissions were gratutious, and giving them up would not constitute consideration to support a contract.

The other question is whether you accepted the counter offer before it was withdrawn.

I agree with the terms you set forth below. However, I would like you to attend the HOA meeting at (somewhere) with (other employee) just to wrap up the outstanding items. Please confirm.

Under the mirror image rule, employer's response did not constitute an acceptance of the contract since it included addtional terms. His response was a counter offer that you were free to accept or reject. Unless you seasonably accepted the offer, there is no contract.

 

[mdmmike13]

A few questions still remain: Were you actually owed the promised commissions? Some agreements require the employee to remain employed in order to earn commissions. If this is the case with your former employer, the promissed commissions were gratutious, and giving them up would not constitute consideration to support a contract.

The other question is whether you accepted the counter offer before it was withdrawn.



Under the mirror image rule, employer's response did not constitute an acceptance of the contract since it included addtional terms. His response was a counter offer that you were free to accept or reject. Unless you seasonably accepted the offer, there is no contract.

Obviuosly it is all in the wording. Let me add a few things. The compamy I was working for was bought out by the employer. I knew this as going to happen since I had met with employer prior to the buy out and the plan was for me to take over as division manager. As part of my compinsation I was to recieve a Salary plus a commission base. Employer never came up with the plan even after many request. I would have made much more money than the vehicle is worth. He put the truck as severence for the commissions. Is this not consideration that would make this a cantract?

My original response said I would help with clients if I could, I was out of town and could not. His request was he would like me to attend not I had to attend. Does this make a difference?

 

[justalayman]

He put the truck as severence for the commissions. Is this not consideration that would make this a cantract?

what was the consideration you put in? So far, you haven't presented anything that shows you gave anything as consideration. That means there is no contract. Both parties must provide consideration.

 

[mdmmike13]

Ok it seems as if the e-mails do not make a contract for either of us. Lets change directions,so my agreeing to accept payment over time would also not be binding. If this is true, I believe in the state of Az. an employer has 72 hours to pay an employees last checks when they are let go for any reason. Since I have not been paid within that time frame can we look at Treble damages for not paying me?

 

[justalayman]

Ok it seems as if the e-mails do not make a contract for either of us. Lets change directions,so my agreeing to accept payment over time would also not be binding. If this is true, I believe in the state of Az. an employer has 72 hours to pay an employees last checks when they are let go for any reason. Since I have not been paid within that time frame can we look at Treble damages for not paying me?

were you not paid somewhere along the line?


If you are speaking of the severance pay, a severance payment is not earnings so they are not obligated to the 3 day requirement. In fact, if you gripe enough about it, they might just plain rescind it altogether.

 

[mdmmike13]

were you not paid somewhere along the line?

If you are speaking of the severance pay, a severance payment is not earnings so they are not obligated to the 3 day requirement. In fact, if you gripe enough about it, they might just plain rescind it altogether.

No I have not been paid my last normal paycheck yet (severence not inclusive). I was let go 8-17-18.

 

[justalayman]

No I have not been paid my last normal paycheck yet (severence not inclusive). I was let go 8-17-18.

I did see reference to the 3 days but when I went to the statute referenced, I got this:

23-353. Payment of wages of discharged employee; violation; classification
A. When an employee is discharged from the service of an employer, he shall be paid wages due him within seven working days or the end of the next regular pay period, whichever is sooner.

that would mean either by the 28th or if a regular payday is sooner, then that day.

ah, a bit more research shows that the 3 days has been extended to the 7 working day deal.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Possibly not, it appears the negotiations on your severance are in negotiation. If this clouds your final paycheck in some manner, the payout term is extended.