Bad floor job- seller responsible?

[non-ditzyblonde]

What is the name of your state? CA

My sister bought a house about 2 months ago. About 2 weeks ago, she noticed the floor in the kitchen appeared to be warping, causing hills in the sheet vinyl. These have continued to grow and now there are several areas that you can step on and force the floor flat.

She contacted the selling broker. The broker contacted the seller, who passed it over to the company which was managing the property. The property manager said new plywood was laid and new sheet vinyl installed and that was all he knew. He didn't do the work himself and claimed that the people who did were no longer in his employ.

So my sister took pictures and had two flooring contractors examine the situation. They both came to the same conclusion: not enough nails or screws were used on the plywood layer. The only way to fix it would be to screw the plywood down, but this of course would ruin the existing vinyl, which means new vinyl would also be needed. She sent the broker the pictures and written estimates. After a week went by without answer, she wrote the broker a demand letter asking for $1,200 to redo the floor.

The seller wrote back saying that while he was sorry, the deal was done and she had signed off on all contingencies.

Is the seller responsible for paying to fix this floor?

Thank you very much.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by non-ditzyblonde

What is the name of your state? CA

My sister bought a house about 2 months ago. About 2 weeks ago, she noticed the floor in the kitchen appeared to be warping, causing hills in the sheet vinyl. These have continued to grow and now there are several areas that you can step on and force the floor flat.

She contacted the selling broker. The broker contacted the seller, who passed it over to the company which was managing the property. The property manager said new plywood was laid and new sheet vinyl installed and that was all he knew. He didn't do the work himself and claimed that the people who did were no longer in his employ.

So my sister took pictures and had two flooring contractors examine the situation. They both came to the same conclusion: not enough nails or screws were used on the plywood layer. The only way to fix it would be to screw the plywood down, but this of course would ruin the existing vinyl, which means new vinyl would also be needed. She sent the broker the pictures and written estimates. After a week went by without answer, she wrote the broker a demand letter asking for $1,200 to redo the floor.

The seller wrote back saying that while he was sorry, the deal was done and she had signed off on all contingencies.

Is the seller responsible for paying to fix this floor?

Thank you very much.

**A: no the Buyer is. I do not understand how not enough scews on the plywood subfloor would cause sheet vinyl floor covering to lift up. I think you would need some more and better glue.

[non-ditzyblonde]

Thanks for the reply, HomeGuru. Let me clarify: the sheet vinyl is adhering properly to the plywood. It's the plywood that appears to be warping, possibly due to insufficient screws to hold it down.

It just seems that if the work had been done properly, this problem would not have arisen. It's not like the floor was old and sold as is; it was a new install and featured as such. What if new tiles in the bathroom began falling off due to the wrong thinset being used? Or if roof shingles fell because they were improperly nailed? Wouldn't the seller bear some responsibility?

I appreciate the feedback.

[JETX]

Lets interject a note of reality here for a minute.....
Based solely on the information in the original post, it IS possible (even likely) for the seller to be liable. Now, what are you going to do with that information??

There are only two possible answers:
1) Nothing or
2) Litigate (as the seller has already denied liability).

I suggest that the buyer get qualified statements of the problem then repair it. After the repairs are done, then the buyer can file a small claims action (as it will probably be less than $5k). Then let the court rule. That is the ONLY way to get the real answer to this type of question.

[HomeGuru]

[quote=non-ditzyblonde]What is the name of your state? CA

The property manager said new plywood was laid and new sheet vinyl installed and that was all he knew. He didn't do the work himself and claimed that the people who did were no longer in his employ.

**A: why did the property manager get involved in repairing the floor for the Seller? Why was the floor repaired? Was there termite damage, water rot etc? And the property manager used employees of his company to do the work? Were these worker's properly licensed to do the construction work, if a license is needed?

[non-ditzyblonde]

Hi JETX,

I agree that going to court is the only way to truly get an answer. It's the decision whether or not to go to court that is so critical. This is why I appreciate this forum so much. If the respected contributors here all said "Hey, the buyer's out of luck for reasons x, y and z", I'd advise my sister not to pursue legal action. Conversely, I'd tell her to file in small claims if the responses supported that.

In short: Thank you very much for your help.

[non-ditzyblonde]

Hi HomeGuru,

**A: why did the property manager get involved in repairing the floor for the Seller? Why was the floor repaired? Was there termite damage, water rot etc? And the property manager used employees of his company to do the work? Were these worker's properly licensed to do the construction work, if a license is needed?

The house was a rented out for the last 6 years. The seller lives out of town and retained a management company. According to a statement from the manager, the floor under the kitchen sink had been water damaged, and since there were so many old layers of vinyl they decided to remove the old plywood and install new. The statement also said that the joists under the kitchen floor were inspected and no signs of water damage, dry rot or termite damage were found before the new plywood and vinyl were installed.

The next part gets murky. The manager would only say that his maintenance crew (it's a large company) handles all repairs and the guys who did this job were no longer working for them and there was no way to contact them. I don't believe a license is required to remove an old sub-floor and install new vinyl, but I'll look into this.

Much appreciated- thanks again.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by non-ditzyblonde

Hi HomeGuru,

**A: why did the property manager get involved in repairing the floor for the Seller? Why was the floor repaired? Was there termite damage, water rot etc? And the property manager used employees of his company to do the work? Were these worker's properly licensed to do the construction work, if a license is needed?

The house was a rented out for the last 6 years. The seller lives out of town and retained a management company. According to a statement from the manager, the floor under the kitchen sink had been water damaged, and since there were so many old layers of vinyl they decided to remove the old plywood and install new. The statement also said that the joists under the kitchen floor were inspected and no signs of water damage, dry rot or termite damage were found before the new plywood and vinyl were installed.

**A: and who inspected under the kitechen floor? Was it a professional home and a termite inspector?
********
The next part gets murky. The manager would only say that his maintenance crew (it's a large company) handles all repairs and the guys who did this job were no longer working for them and there was no way to contact them. I don't believe a license is required to remove an old sub-floor and install new vinyl, but I'll look into this.

**A: so what, the large company remains responsible for poor workmanship even if the actual workers who did the job are no longer around. Check into the warranty issue.
*******

Much appreciated- thanks again.

**A: I hope you are getting the picture so you can tell your Sis.

[non-ditzyblonde]

HomeGuru,

The house was professionally inspected. The joists and what's visible of the sub-floor under the kitchen and throughout the house are clean. I don't know if any inspector can detect an improperly fastened sub-floor, though- standing on the kitchen floor, everything looked perfect until the warping began.

I'll look into the warranty issue with my sister. From past conversations, my feeling is the management company is going to try to blow this off. So if I'm getting the picture clearly here, the next steps are: 1) Contact the management company again about the warranty and if the issue remains unresolved, then 2) document the situation and have the floor repaired, then 3) file in small claims against the... seller? Management company? Both?

Thanks very much.

[HomeGuru]

You are on the right path.

[non-ditzyblonde]

Cheers! Much appreciated.

[HomeGuru]

Keep us posted.

[non-ditzyblonde]

Quick update: We had a floor guy come in today. He went to the least conspicuous area which is "bubbling" and cut some small holes, then screwed down the floor in that area. It worked- the floor went flat. So he proceeded to screw down the rest of the floor, counter-sinking all screws, then applied floor leveler to cover the holes and screw heads and slightly uneven areas. Tomorrow he'll lay new sheet vinyl and then we'll send the bill to the other parties involved and see what happens.

Thanks again- I appreciate it.