Failure to Disclose?

Durham, North Carolina

About a week ago a contractor was out to give me an estimate on some work that we're going to have done, and we found something troubling. Between our front door and first window in our living room, there is significant water rot in the baseboard trim and part of the door frame. The contractor was honestly puzzled as to where this was coming from. He said the damage appears old and was having a hard time telling where it was coming from if it was still occurring. He mentioned the roof and the porch as possibilities. There was no visible sign of water coming down from above which is what made it puzzling.

Just for the heck of it, I called the former owner of the house and explained to her what we had found. I asked her if they ever had a water leak or drainage problem in the front of the house. I explained to her that we wanted to know if anything on the roof, etc. had been repaired in the past so that the contractor would have an easier time figuring out what was going on. She told me that to her knowledge there was never a problem with the roof, but...

She told me over the phone that they did re-build the entire front porch when they bought the house, because for the two years or so before they bought it, the porch actually sloped towards the house and there was a drainage problem, where water would sit on the porch/against the house. I thanked her for the information and told her that it was a help in assisting us with finding the problems and I proceeded to ask her if there was any other major repair work done, so that we had a better understanding of what the house had been through before we bought it. Up to this point we assumed that the disclosure form they signed would suffice...

She told me over the phone that there was "one other thing". During an ice storm in 2002, a tree fell through the roof (as in, leaving a hole) above the master bedroom and master bathroom. They replaced part of the roof, siding, repainted the entire back of the home and also had to replace the back porch door.

None of this was disclosed to us before we bought the home. No information about any of these things appeared in the disclosure form. There's no problem with the back of the house or roof over the master suite that we know of, but shouldn't they have told us about that? My main concern right now is the issue surrounding the rot in front. If the contractor determines that it was a result of the old porch and they did not disclose that, what can we do?

I would like to think that if we would have known about that problem, we would have tasked the inspector to pay close attention to any issues caused by these past occurrences, which could have swayed our decision in making an offer, pursuing repair funds from the seller, or perhaps even buying the home.

After posing all this info to our buying agent, she told us that her manager has stated that there is no reason the seller should have to disclose an item that has been repaired. But, in my mind, replacing an entire porch and repairing somehting are two very different things. In addition, the NC disclosue form does include the word repair. My contractor disagrees with my selling agent.

We've only owned the house for about 4.5 months. Is there anything I can do here?

Thanks.

[faithandhope]

Did your inspector mention anything about wood rot in the door jam or frame? Also, did he mention anything about water "ponding" in the front around the porch? Even if they rebuilt the front porch, drainage issues might still be evident on either side of the porch. Do some further research there. If not, then replacing the rotted areas and caulking and painting will stop any further problems if the real issues with the porch have been addressed.

[HomeGuru]

Writer, I also disagree with your ignorant real estate agent.

Home Guru

Thanks, its nice to know I'm not alone in disagreeing with her. I've requested an appointment with her manager to review the disclosure form the seller signed. My contractor even disagrees.

I guess my big concern is whether or not, should I hire an attorney, the benefit will outway the cost. I am admittedly new at this and inexperienced, and part of me is afraid that the legal fees surpass the funds I'd need to recover for the work. Either one would be a financial hit at this point, part of the territory I suppose (and understand), but is there any way to avoid loss in one form or another?

Also, because of the disagreement with the real estate agent, should I simply cut them out of the loop and go to an attorney?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

[HomeGuru]

How much are we talking here to make things right?

Could be a few thousand. If the water came from the old porch, then there's a possibility that the damage is minimal and I'd more than likely be willing to just suck it up and cover that, but should the water have gotten to a stud and damaged it, it could be much more costly. I haven't gotten a full estimate from the contractor yet because he suggested I investigate the disclosure issue first. He's even volunteered to search for/pull the buliding permit for the porch.

To tear the wall apart (drywall inside, siding outside) to simply search for the extent of the damage could be around $500, that's the only hard number I know.

Another issue, my agent, upon initial contact also suggested that I contact the previous owners and let them know that the contractor thinks the porch repair may have not been properly done and to suggest they have that repair person look at it again.

I've already contacted them once. If the contractor is looking for the permit and I may choose to go the legal route, is it advisable to contact them again? I'm hesitant.

Thanks again.

[faithandhope]

Are you having mold testing?

Probably won't have to actually test because they will more than likely need to rip the entire wall apart to see what's going on inside anyway.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by droe77

Probably won't have to actually test because they will more than likely need to rip the entire wall apart to see what's going on inside anyway.

**A: that's more of a reason to test. You see, once the ripping starts, the mold spores ( if any mold is present) will be everywhere since the host will be disturbed.
Search "toxic mold" and read the millions of pages.

[gryndor]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

Search "toxic mold" and read the millions of pages.

Toxic Mold is horrible.

I started work at this govt. building some years ago and got sick immediately. After a few months this jelly-like crap started falling out of the ceiling vents...

The jelly stuff was a byproduct of the toxic mold.

If there is any, I would do whatever I can asap to get that stuff out of there!

Yuck!

[HomeGuru]

[quote=gryndor]Toxic Mold is horrible.

I started work at this govt. building some years ago and got sick immediately. After a few months this jelly-like crap started falling out of the ceiling vents...

The jelly stuff was a byproduct of the toxic mold.

**A: then you be toast if you breathe the stuff.

Pulled the rotten peice of trim away from the wall today. Termites!!! Contractor says they're there because there is still a moisture problem. What really pisses me off is that this looks like long term damage, and we've only been in the house for 4.5 months. And yes, we had a termite inspection before purchase.

NOW WHAT??

[faithandhope]

And unfortunately, the termite inspector is looking for visible signs (mainly exterior tubes) and can't see inside walls nor do a destructive type inspection. Best of Luck.

Do a Google on "residential real property disclosure act". There are a lot of cases out there. You have a year to file in Illinois.

Also, to prove fraud, you have a stronger burden of actual knowledge they were not being truthful.

However, the bad news is that if the seller thought the problem was fixed, then they did not violate anything. I think the disclosure should include all repair and problems whether they have been fixed or not.

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: that's more of a reason to test. You see, once the ripping starts, the mold spores ( if any mold is present) will be everywhere since the host will be disturbed.
Search "toxic mold" and read the millions of pages.

Search "alien abduction" and read millions of pages, too. "Toxic mold" is of similar ilk.