Fireplace is a sham

[catnap765]

What is the name of your state? Rhode Island
We purchased our home in Dec 04, one of the best best features we thought was the fireplace. We have been so busy, we just got around to using it this month. Guess What? It started dripping molten lead, and smoke filled the room. We called a local certified fireplace company. The man knew our house well, He said he warned the last three (including the one we purchased from) owners that it wasnt safe, or legal, and that we would have to have a new chimney built in order for it to work. This would also take up alot of space upstairs, and would cost about $3,000.00 or more. We have also had a second fireplace company come. They told us the same thing.
On the sellers discloser form it says "1 working fireplace", it also says was cleaned and pointed in 2002.
The seller knew we wanted to use it, as we told her and asked about it several times.
Do we have any legal recourse? We are strapped financially right now so paying up front for an attorney for a case that will take an extended period of time cannot work for us.
Any help wll be appreciated

[BradleyS]

RE Broker in Kansas:

Did you use a real estate agent or a REALTOR?

[catnap765]

Only the sellers realtor. and they were a helpusell realtor

[BradleyS]

Well, make sure that they are a REALTOR (A member of the National Association of REALTORS)

If they are, you need to talk to the REALTOR about mediation and arbitration. Also, you should download the National Association of REALTORS "Code of Ethics" and "Standards of Practice." This contains information on arbitration and mediation. There also might be more downloads directly relating to these items.

Go to Realtor.com or Realtor.org to download.

On your RE Contract, how did the REALTOR disclose his/her "agency relationship?" (Seller's agent, Designated Seller's Agent, Transaction Broker,etc.)

There should be an answer for the listing side as well as the selling side.

If you used a REALTOR you can use our mediation and arbitration. And you don't have to have an attorney, although I would always advise that you have one. The cost of using the arbitration and mediation is very low.

If the REALTOR does not respond to your request, then call the Local Real Estate Board Office of REALTORS. The links provided above will also contain information about the local board office.

Let us know if the agent IS a REALTOR?

[BradleyS]

In addition,

Use the [url]www.helpusell.com[/url] website to find that office and see if they have the "R" designation or "MLS."

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by catnap765

Only the sellers realtor. and they were a helpusell realtor

**A: and you did not get a home inspection? File a complaint with the state against the agent.

[catnap765]

First of all, I want to thank you for your help.
The Agent of the seller listed herself on the contract "is the agent of the seller exclusively" on both sides.
on the helpusell site there is no mention of an "R" or realtor, only MLS. She is listed as "Broker/Owner, GRI,CBR" I have no idea what those Initials stand for. I downloaded the suggested materials, but could find nothing that really helps me in them. I'll keep looking.
Yes, We had a home inspection done, It did not include the fireplace. We have contacted the company that did the inspection and we were told it never includes the fireplace.
Looks like I'm in for a rough haul.
Any other suggestions?

[catnap765]

One other thing I would like to say.
We are not only upset about not having a fireplace, From what the Fireplace company told us, That one fire we started could have cause serious damage, even burned the house down, It is that unsafe.
The seller had purchased the house for their college age children to live in while attending school. She told us she did not let the kids use the fireplace because she didnt think they were responsible enough and she didnt want to take a chance with her or her husband not being there, But that she had it cleaned and pointed and it was in perfect condition and ready to go. It burns me up (no pun intended) that if she knew was unsafe,(which she had to have) She didnt tell us.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by catnap765

First of all, I want to thank you for your help.
The Agent of the seller listed herself on the contract "is the agent of the seller exclusively" on both sides.
on the helpusell site there is no mention of an "R" or realtor, only MLS. She is listed as "Broker/Owner, GRI,CBR"

**A: then chances are she was a Realtor then quit the association. That is why she states Broker/Owner rather than Realtor/Owner. And is she is not a Realtor she should not be using the designation GRI (Graduate Realtor's Institute) and CRB (Certified Residential Broker) Call your local Board of Realtors to see if she is a member. But those are really insignificant issues, Realtor or non-Realtor, she did bad deeds.
********
I have no idea what those Initials stand for. I downloaded the suggested materials, but could find nothing that really helps me in them. I'll keep looking.
Yes, We had a home inspection done, It did not include the fireplace. We have contacted the company that did the inspection and we were told it never includes the fireplace.
Looks like I'm in for a rough haul.
Any other suggestions?

**A: then if you knew that would you have gotten a separate fireplace inspection?
Review your home inspection agreement. National HI standards require an inspection of fireplaces [url]www.ashi.com[/url]

[catnap765]

The discloser clearly stated "one working fireplace, cleaned and pointed". So no, we didnt get a seperate inspection, didn't know we needed to, didn't know it wasn't included.
On the inspection we did get, he has fireplace there, and the chimney, and they are listed as good. but the Chimney is for the oil furnace. The problem is the fireplace has been illegally mickey moused inside with a pipe to go over and meet the oil furnace chimney. The lead dripping down is from this mickey moused pipe joints. This can not be seen from a visual inspection.
The RI law standard of practice #3.12.2 states the interiors of flues or chimneys are excluded from the inspection. This is what our inspector told us also. )o:

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by catnap765

The discloser

**A: the document is called a disclosure for short or a Seller disclosure statement.
******
clearly stated "one working fireplace, cleaned and pointed".

**A: did you request a copy of the licensed contractor's paid invoice for this cleaning and pointing?
***********
So no, we didnt get a seperate inspection, didn't know we needed to, didn't know it wasn't included.

**A: if you had your own Realtor maybe you would have known.
***********
On the inspection we did get, he has fireplace there, and the chimney, and they are listed as good.

**A: what? Did you not state in a previous post that the home inspection did not include the fireplace? Get your stories straight.
********

but the Chimney is for the oil furnace. The problem is the fireplace has been illegally mickey moused inside with a pipe to go over and meet the oil furnace chimney. The lead dripping down is from this mickey moused pipe joints. This can not be seen from a visual inspection.
The RI law standard of practice #3.12.2 states the interiors of flues or chimneys are excluded from the inspection. This is what our inspector told us also. )o:

**A: what law is that? Please post the link to such a law.

[catnap765]

**A: if you had your own Realtor maybe you would have known.
***********

Dear HomeGuru, Well, I did not! If I had, I would not be writing for advice would I?
Hindsight is a ... well you know. and it does me NO GOOD now, I am asking for advice on what I can do NOW. not what should have been done.


**A: what? Did you not state in a previous post that the home inspection did not include the fireplace? Get your stories straight.
********

Get my strories straight? You have to be kidding. Do you honestly think people post on this site just to lie? This feedback does not help anyone.
Yes I thought it was not included, because that is what my inspector told me. When I took another look at the report, there it was, I found out though, the INSIDE is not included.




**A: what law is that? Please post the link to such a law.

OK! before you say anything, maybe it is not a "LAW" the RI site tossed me to the Ashi site, It is the ASHI Standards of Practice.

[url]http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards12.asp[/url]

[catnap765]

On that note,
Does anyone have any advice on what steps I can take going FORWARD? or if I have any kind of case?
Thanks in advance to those that do. (o:

[BradleyS]

RE Broker in Kansas:

It would be safe to assume that the agent was a member of the NAR since the MLS system was used and a contract that was designed by the Local Board of REALTORS.

Like I posted before, call the local REALTOR board office and tell them you were not represented by a REALTOR, but you "contracted" through a REALTOR. If the contract that you signed has a "mediation" or "arbitration" clause, you should be able to use these services.

Check your contract and post back.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by catnap765

**A: if you had your own Realtor maybe you would have known.
***********

Dear HomeGuru, Well, I did not! If I had, I would not be writing for advice would I?
Hindsight is a ... well you know. and it does me NO GOOD now, I am asking for advice on what I can do NOW. not what should have been done.


**A: what? Did you not state in a previous post that the home inspection did not include the fireplace? Get your stories straight.
********

Get my strories straight? You have to be kidding. Do you honestly think people post on this site just to lie? This feedback does not help anyone.
Yes I thought it was not included, because that is what my inspector told me. When I took another look at the report, there it was, I found out though, the INSIDE is not included.


HomeGuru: I base my responses on the information provided, thus if the information provided to me is not correct or factual, my advice may be misleading or incorrect. That is why it is a big deal to post accurate and complete information.
I give advice to win, not to lose.
********

**A: what law is that? Please post the link to such a law.

OK! before you say anything, maybe it is not a "LAW" the RI site tossed me to the Ashi site, It is the ASHI Standards of Practice.

[url]http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards12.asp[/url]

HomeGuru: you are correct, that is no law. Those are standards of practice from a home inspection association. Why don't you read it and see what the standards are for the inspection of a fireplace. Then ask your home inspector why various items of the fireplace as noted in the ASHI standards of practice were not inspected. Then please post back.