Heater broken; seller did not disclose

[Mara10]

Can anyone help me figure out if my fiance and I have any legal ground to stand on in small claims court? Our heater is broken in the house we bought 1 month ago, the seller did not disclose this and we did not have a provate inspection done. We do know that the seller was aware of this problem because we got in contact with the old renter's and they informed her that it was broken. According to both heater techs that came out, it's been like this for some time so our Home Warranty won't cover it. It will cost about $5,000 to fix. What can we do?

[john123456]

Originally Posted by Mara10

Can anyone help me figure out if my fiance and I have any legal ground to stand on in small claims court? Our heater is broken in the house we bought 1 month ago, the seller did not disclose this and we did not have a provate inspection done. We do know that the seller was aware of this problem because we got in contact with the old renter's and they informed her that it was broken. According to both heater techs that came out, it's been like this for some time so our Home Warranty won't cover it. It will cost about $5,000 to fix. What can we do?

Why did you delete the question re your state?

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by john123456

Why did you delete the question re your state?

**A: maybe the writer was too shy to type; state of confusion.

[Mara10]

I didn't delete it on purpose. I am in CA

[tryingtoplease]

Originally Posted by Mara10

Can anyone help me figure out if my fiance and I have any legal ground to stand on in small claims court? Our heater is broken in the house we bought 1 month ago, the seller did not disclose this and we did not have a provate inspection done. We do know that the seller was aware of this problem because we got in contact with the old renter's and they informed her that it was broken. According to both heater techs that came out, it's been like this for some time so our Home Warranty won't cover it. It will cost about $5,000 to fix. What can we do?

$5000 to fix a heater?? Definitely not right. I assume it's a furnace and not a wall heater, right? What exactly did the two HVAC techs say? Are there problems with the ducts too? Good thing you didn't plow ahead thinking your home warranty would cover it. Those places are pretty much useless. We've stopped dealing with them at all because they only make life difficult.

Of course, if you're trying to get a whole new heating system out of the sellers for a heater that only needs repairs, that ain't gonna fly. Although, depending on the problem and the age of the unit, parts may no longer be available. What I would recommend you do is get three written estimates from licensed HVAC companies and take them to your agent. See if they can't negotiate something for you.

[Mara10]

It is a combo Heating/AC unit that sits on the roof. It is 22 years old and the problem is that there is a crack in the heat exchange which means that every time the pilot light tries to come on, it gets blown out. And the HVAC tech that we paid to look at it (before the Home Warranty folks sent their guy out) made us unplug the unit altogether because it was also emitting gases that could cause us to die in our sleep. So, yeah it definately needs replacing. We are going to send her a demand letter and have a letter from the former renter stating her made her aware of the problem. We just hope it will stand up in court since we didn't get a home inspection.

[travlinlady23]

Originally Posted by Mara10

Can anyone help me figure out if my fiance and I have any legal ground to stand on in small claims court? Our heater is broken in the house we bought 1 month ago, the seller did not disclose this and we did not have a provate inspection done. We do know that the seller was aware of this problem because we got in contact with the old renter's and they informed her that it was broken. According to both heater techs that came out, it's been like this for some time so our Home Warranty won't cover it. It will cost about $5,000 to fix. What can we do?

The other side of coin...if renters did complain and he sent someone out to repair..than in his eyes it was fixed..so I believe he didn't have to disclose the fact..for instance, the sink faucet leak...he repaired...did he disclose that the sink leaks? Not standing up for him, always look at the other side

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by travlinlady23

The other side of coin...if renters did complain and he sent someone out to repair..than in his eyes it was fixed..so I believe he didn't have to disclose the fact..for instance, the sink faucet leak...he repaired...did he disclose that the sink leaks? Not standing up for him, always look at the other side

**A: incorrect as disclosure should have been made regarding both the leak and the fix.

[Mara10]

The latest is that the seller's realtor told us that there is a law that excludes her from responsibility because she was not an occupant of the property. Also, he said she had the heater serviced in December of 2003 and had the blower replaced, therefore there was nothing to disclose as they assumed the problem had been fixed. But the heater was serviced through Home Warranty and we think it should have been included in the disclosure statement. I spoke with the heater tech that serviced the heater who said that he may not have looked at the heat exchange because Home Warranty tells him to do a quick fix to make it blow warm air and get out of there. He probalby did not check the heat exchange.

Should the seller's home warranty be liable?

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Mara10

The latest is that the seller's realtor told us that there is a law that excludes her from responsibility because she was not an occupant of the property. Also, he said she had the heater serviced in December of 2003 and had the blower replaced, therefore there was nothing to disclose as they assumed the problem had been fixed. But the heater was serviced through Home Warranty and we think it should have been included in the disclosure statement. I spoke with the heater tech that serviced the heater who said that he may not have looked at the heat exchange because Home Warranty tells him to do a quick fix to make it blow warm air and get out of there. He probalby did not check the heat exchange.

Should the seller's home warranty be liable?

**A: the Seller's Realtor is an idiot. But of course you knew that already.

[Mara10]

What is the name of your state? California

So the seller claims she is not liable for our broken heater because she had a technician sent by her home warranty company come out and fix the problem in December of 2003. We bought the house in January 2005. The seller has washed her hands of this because she said she did her part to fix the broken heater in 2003 and was unaware the problem was not fixed even thought the former renters say that they told her this winter that it did not work. We are now ready to go to small claims court. The lowest quote we've gotten to replace it was $3500 and that was from the tech that came out and "fixed" it in 2003.

Do we have a good case? Her realtor thinks we don't bc we did not get a home inspection and our realtor doesn't think that will hurt us especially bc we have the statement of the former renters.

[BradleyS]

RE Broker in Kansas:

Just because the owner did not live in the property does not exclude them from disclosing all know defects, past or present.

Even if you purchase the property "AS IS." I have read a lot of appeals by different states and all of them stated that disclosure of defects on residential real estate sales are required. And I am in agreement.

The buyer can still buy, and the seller can still sell. It doesn't mean the seller has to fix the defects. Although mortgage companies as well as insurance companies may decline to finance or insure to property. But there is a lot of buyers out there with cash. He just can't sell to that type of buyer, and the RE Agent should be disclosing the financing requirement to all potential buyers or their representatives.

Question:

Did the prior tenant call the City's "Office of Central Inspection" and file a compaint? (a division of a city government that enforces housing standards)

Will the tenant testify as a witness if you proceed with legal action?

Has there been any prior complaints or violations filed by prior tenants?


I am asking you these questions because you are going to need sufficient proof/evidence that the owner knew about the defect before the sale of the property. What you have going for you right now is that the Seller did not provide you any information about known defects.

Additionally, get a written statement of the denial from the warranty company explaining their reasons why they denied the claim.

I'm not an attorney, but I personally would take the seller to small claims if I had enough proof.

One more question:

Did you have a RE Agent or REALTOR represent you in the sale?

[BradleyS]

I had the same converstation with HomeGuru. Even though some of his remarks may seem rude and abrasive, his knowledge and experience in this field and this site is needed.

I may have only read less than 1% of his 50,000 replies, but it most cases(over 99%), his answers are correct, and to the point.

Just keep asking questions, after a while you will understand.

RE Broker in Kansas...

[Mara10]

Yes, we had a realtor who is actually still trying to help us out with our case as we speak. She is working with the home warranty company to see how they can help or at the very least give us a discounted cost to replace the heater that we will take to the seller.

We typed up a letter based on what the renter's told us and had them sign it, noting that they did inform her of the heater problem. But they did not make a formal complaint anywhere.

We also do have a letter coming from our Home Warranty Company stating why they rejected our claim to fix the heater.

So our realtor and broker think we have a good case should the seller continue to claim no responsibility and we need to take her to small claims court. Hopefully this will end before we get to that stage.

[BradleyS]

You may want to try to contact any previous contractor's that may have worked on the unit when the seller's owned it. They could have made recommendations that the seller might of ignored.

You should have the tenants statement on a sworn notarized affidavit, or have the present as a witness. Sometimes a "letter" is not sufficient. Have your RE Agent there too.

Looks like your heading in the right direction.

Good luck.