non-disclosure and Orange County house

CALIFORNIA
Bought the house a year ago. The seller “admitted” us to inspect and appraise the house at the specific time – on Saturdays…

1. A week after we moved in my nose start smelling the cat’s odor – the carpet in one bedroom, floors and drywall in one bathroom were soaked through and black with the urine – the wall was freshly painted to cover up the spot. No one noticed the smell during inspections due to extensive use of candles and incense throughout the house with all 20 windows open as well.

2. There is elementary school just across from our gated (1 entrance) community. After we moved in we discovered that you have to take extra 30 minutes on a 3 minute drive just to get in or out from the house in the morning and in the middle of the day, so, the idea having your lunch at home is out. And when they have games till 9 with whistles and horns? And those annoying bells?

3. After we had a rain, it was a pleasure to discover that we get a small lake right in the middle of the patio that obviously is slopping towards the middle and the house…

Obviously, none of that was disclosed on a statement.
Our dual agent just waived us away stating that, it is too late to complain about the damaged by urine floors as I can’t prove it, that we should of known that if there is a school, there is always traffic and noise and basically just to eat it with the patio….

Well, the funny thing is that I still have all the panels, carpet padding soaked with urine (and the floors are still there as well) stored as the evidence (what if they’ll want to run the DNA test…LOL). Also I located the cat-sitter who used to visit the peeing cat and cleaning litter box in that bathroom…….And all of us (seller, agent, inspector were wondering what a heck was that stain on the garage ceiling… and the seller just suggested that it might be something left after construction.. as it was discovered following the pee-trail, creative cat managed to pee on the wall with the urine going behind the panels, on the floor and straigt down to the garage ceiling that is right below that bathroom…

Also, very interesting: I refinanced the house this january and we had the same appraiser that did the purchase one 9 months ago. How we were surprised to see a $15,000 deduction for the school noise and traffic as she happened to visit the house during the “busy” time … I wonder, how and why this appraiser didn’t deduct or even mentioned that on a first appraisal when I was buying the house?? So, I actually overpaid and taken advantage of?

And last, patio…. Obviously there were rains during the past 5 years she was living in the house and sure, she knew the problem, that the patio required the drainage hole installed in the middle of a slope… guess what…

My question (I know, finally) what should I do to get sufficiently reimbursed for those damages, fraud and negligence?
Seller and I signed the mediation clause, but according to my copy of the purchase agreement, I was the only one who agreed to arbitration. So, who do I involve into the law suit? Everyone (appraiser, Prudential Real Estate, seller…?) And, as far as I understand, fraud has a 2 year statute of limitations?

[sroutlaw]

1) You knew a cat lived in the house, or no?
2) What remedy do you hope to obtain for any or all of these things?
3) Did you have a home inspection done? If so what were the findings?
4) Did you miss the fact that there was a school right at the entrance to your area? Exercising due diligience with an eye to what that would mean to your property?
Sroutlaw

1) You knew a cat lived in the house, or no?
Yep, but no one could suspect anything as it had perfectly and professionally clean carpet and burning candles every time we were allowed to come over….
2) What remedy do you hope to obtain for any or all of these things?
To be reimbursed for what I lost and about to, such as: pee repairs - $3,000-5,000 (one contractor has a license, other one doesn’t), $15,000 suddenly taken out for the neighborhood nuisance such as school traffic and noise (no word about it when I got the purchase appraisal, as it was contingent on it , plus $7,000 to drain the hole in the patio and put the pipe (what a rip off)
3) Did you have a home inspection done? If so what were the findings?
I sure did and he didn’t smell or saw anything either. It was much cooler outside and once the sun popped out the smell began to come out as well.

4) Did you miss the fact that there was a school right at the entrance to your area? Exercising due diligience with an eye to what that would mean to your property?
Nope, I didn’t, I liked the idea, but never lived near the school before, plus, I moved to USA 6 years ago. And obviously, the appraiser didn’t “think” about that one either… remember, the first she was allowed to come to appraise the house on Saturday... and this time she had to come during the weekday and decided to punish me for that…LOL

Diligence – believe me, I snooped around… I made an offer on 2 houses at that time contingent on appraisal (Orange county, you know) and that one came out right on appraised value (now I know, she just did a favor to seller..)

[sroutlaw]

1) A more thorough follow up re: candles and incense should have been done. This COULD come out in your favor but unlikely to the point that you are suggesting. What was mentioned in the disclosure about any damage from pets?
2) The only claim that appears worthy here is the cat odor/deterioration. The patio part could be something to take up with your inspector if he made no reference to the patio problem, which should have been easy to spot to a trained eye, in his findings.
3) YOur home inspector didn't investigate the patio? No findings on that? Saturday has nothing to do with that - of course all inspections, appraisals, etc are made at HO convenience so that is moot.
4) Due diligence has nothing to do with the common American usage of diligence. Get out a good legal dictionary.
I think you will find that your big complaint, the school traffic and noise, will be laughed out of court since you bought the house knowing a school was there. (did you ask the HO about the school, noise, traffic? Is there reference to it in the disclosure?)

Gonna give you a little clue here - most of the stuff you are dealing with is part of living in the area you CHOSE voluntarily. YOu will never see that $15K about the school - I would just have another appraisal done if I were so worried. Schedule it on a Saturday LOL and see what comes of it - normally, a school nearby is a PLUS, not a minus, unless this is some sort of tough neighborhood with gangland shootings....
Also, you knew a pet lived in the house - you saw candles and incense; these are things you should have seen as red flags. Again, check the disclosure.
The patio - check the findings of your certified home inspector. Is anything noted about the patio? This was HIS job - and yours to examine his rep and his findings....
Best luck, I know it sucks to find problems in a house you just bought, but, it happens and isn't always an actionable lawsuit. Even in AMERICA.

Thank you, sroutlaw

1) A more thorough follow up re: candles and incense should have been done. This COULD come out in your favor but unlikely to the point that you are suggesting. What was mentioned in the disclosure about any damage from pets?
-There is nothing in the disclosure about the pets, but there is a question of known damage to floors and walls… like the wall freshly painted on the bottom (seller said that the laundry basket was there and she painted over the scratch). Carpet – she hired professionals to clean it with enzymes to remove the pet odor (too bad she didn’t know it is a temporary solution ...) And the black panels from years of urination – I am getting the professional opinion of how long would it take to practically demolish the wooden sticks and the floors that you can pock though with the finger (we had to rip off the linoleum to see what is underneath….

2) The patio part could be something to take up with your inspector if he made no reference to the patio problem, which should have been easy to spot to a trained eye, in his findings.
- The inspector had to measure the % of slope towards the house, not what is in the middle (per what he told us..;-) And unless you pour water on the patio, it isn’t easy to see… So, do you think I have to drug in the inspector as well?

Due diligence has nothing to do with the common American usage of diligence. Get out a good legal dictionary.
-We did everything we could within the first 27 minutes allowance to be in the house the first time (home inspector) and appraiser spent whole 15 minutes measuring the sq. ft. (yep, it was recorded).

I think you will find that your big complaint, the school traffic and noise, will be laughed out of court since you bought the house knowing a school was there. (did you ask the HO about the school, noise, traffic? Is there reference to it in the disclosure?)
-Yep, California Real Estate Transfer Disclosure Statement (section 1102 of the Civil Code) asks: Are you (seller) aware of any significant defects/malfunctions in any of the following? … Yes/No.. and lists all the options to check such as interior walls, floors, slabs…. She knew about this - made an effort to cover it up and marked it as “no” . Pretty much clear cut….

School/Traffic… there is exact question on the Disclosure form: Are you (seller) aware of any of the following:…#8: Flooding, drainage or grading problems… she marked “NO”….#11: Neighborhood noise problems or other nuisances… she said “NO” (and here, if your neighbor has a puppy that is darn cute but noisy - you have to disclose it. We might way aware of the fact that they have a cute puppy, but have no idea that the puppy screams his lungs out being locked at the garage when the owners are out dancing at night…. You know that and you have to tell the buyer about it, as how would the buyer know possible behavior of the pets? The buyer doesn’t have to guess. The seller is who needs to think about all those little things under that item # 11). There is such a thing as “covenant of quiet enjoyment” that affects the value of the house. So far everyone gives the disclosure to sign to notify you that there is an active airport in the area and the planes do fly across …. Well, why do you think they make you (seller) to disclose that they make some noise flying?? Do you see what I am saying? It is obvious, the purpose of the airport is to harbor the planes which fly (thanks God), but no, you need to make sure to notify the buyer in writing about that. So, what were you saying about the “obvious” about the school?

Gonna give you a little clue here - most of the stuff you are dealing with is part of living in the area you CHOSE voluntarily.
-Yep, agree with that and would agree even more if I was not lied to and didn’t overpaid $15K …

YOu will never see that $15K about the school - I would just have another appraisal done if I were so worried.
-I know what you mean with another appraiser… what pissed me off was that I overpaid for the property initially and got a higher interest rate in refinancing due to the ration of the home value and mortgage). I was mislead by the appraiser last April and this january she wrote: “External obsolescence is present due to the subject backing an elementary school which thus suffers from traffic and noise at peek hours”.. and slapped me with 15K off the value…

So, you want to tell me that a licensed appraiser who I paid to give me the true value on the house didn’t “notice” that obsolescence 9 months ago is not liable for it? Or that Prudential real estate is not aware of the meaning of “ when she was doing the first appraisal which would of affected my purchasing decision, they got scared and r waiting what I’ll do next….

I am not worried about how to sell the house, within a year it went from $400K to $755 (neighbor just sold) - the houses are getting sold within a day…. Again, what I am stuck at is that I was lied to…

Also, you knew a pet lived in the house - you saw candles and incense; these are things you should have seen as red flags. Again, check the disclosure
– checked, nothing about candles, just floors, walls and ceilings where she marked “nope”
–
The patio - check the findings of your certified home inspector. Is anything noted about the patio? This was HIS job - and yours to examine his rep and his findings....Best luck, I know it sucks to find problems in a house you just bought, but, it happens and isn't always an actionable lawsuit. Even in AMERICA.
Thanks! I know… but, hey, why should I have to pay when others are licensed to make my life easier, right? I know Prudential and Appraisers are waiting for me to file the lawsuit and I am getting ready (procrastinator) …
And don’t know, do I put them all altogether at once or deal with them separately?
Thank you again, scroutlaw…I just love when people argue with me – gives me the chance to be prepared for possible questions like that from them..

[HomeGuru]

There are indeed claims that could be made agaisnt the Seller in a property disclosure lawsuit.