Non-disclosure by seller

[cazstreet]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?OhioWhat is the name of your state?

Any legal advice would be greatly appreciated in this awful mess we have on our hands right now. My husband was transferring with his company to a Northern Ky. location and we looked for a home to buy in Ohio that would be within a 30 minute drive. We found a home that had what we thought was everything we needed...ranch with accessibility features for our quadraplegic son, acreage and close proximity to expressways and shopping. The home was built in 1947 by the father of the seller...the seller helped his dad build it, lived in it until the father passed away, then purchased it from his father's estate and then the seller lived in it with wife and six kids for 30 more years until he sold it to us.

The house needed alot of cosmetic work...nothing had been replaced for almost thirty years and it showed! Our realtor advised that we have a full home inspection done along with a septic tank inspection since the seller said the septic tank was the ORIGINAL TANK! We knew from prior experience that tanks usually do not last longer than 20-25 years and this one was well past its life expectancy. In our contract we wrote in that a full home inspection would be done along with a septic inspection..seller agreed. The disclosure form the seller filled out indicated a "septic tank" and nothing more. Home inspection came back with a myriad of things wrong which we worked out with the seller and just before closing our agent contacted the seller's agent to find out about the septic tank inspection and the seller's agent indicated the inspection had been done and nothing was wrong and everything was in working order. We agreed to close. At closing the seller's agent produced copies of everything we had requested and the seller himself made a comment that when the tank was pumped and inspected, the pumper indicated that "this system would last another 20 years!"

Approximately 3 weeks after moving in the house (and after substantial rainfall) the toilet starts gurgling and not flushing properly, gurgling in the sink and water coming up into the tub. We contacted a septic tank company who came out and had to pump the tank out since it was completely full! This tank had just been pumped 3 weeks prior..rule of thumb is one complete pump every 2-3 years depending on the size of the tank and family size (tank is about 1500 gallon and family size is 3 and only 2 of us use the toilet!) The septic tank man tells us that due to the substantial rainfall and our county "having a high water table" we would run into this problem alot and everyone in this county had the same problem..."high water table and clay soil" which makes for alot of septic tank problems. The seller and his agent are familiar with this area and county and we feel they knew of this "problem" but never disclosed it to us....then the real kicker is this....we had more plumbing problems and called a plumber out to take a look and a wooden lid lying on top of the ground on the side of the driveway( which we were told was a cover for what appeared to be a dried up well and which was not discovered or inspected by the home inspector) was actually a "grease trap" or as we call it...a make shift septic system!!!! Basically in order for the regular tank to operate properly, the less dish water and laundry water that flows into the main septic the better off you are..so the seller or his father, we don't know which put this makeshift system in which contains dish water and laundry water and this then runs out into an open trench which is at the back of our property! The plumber said this was totally illegal and if the county health dept. ever found out they would condemn the property until that wastewater was re-connected to the main septic tank which would cost a fortune and the main tank isn't working properly anyway due to the high water table! We also found out that other neighbors in this area have these same things. We contacted our realtor who indicated this should have been disclosed but wasn't and we should pursue this issue legally. Well, we can't afford attorney fees right now but the main tank is backing up again and we only have the one bathroom..it's pretty bad when you have been lied to and then can't bathe or flush a toilet after a hard rain for fear of it all backing up into the house!!

Oh, by the way, the seller's wife came over several weeks ago to pick up a piece of mail and my husband mentioned something to her about the "dried up well" and she knew about it being a "grease trap" and indicated that they had alot of problems with it while they lived here! They knew about this thing but never disclosed it...we think their realtor knew it too, but was anxious to get rid of this "white elephant" so chose not to disclose it! The house had been on the market for 9 months before we bought it! HELP!!!! Do we have an open and shut case for court???

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by cazstreet

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?OhioWhat is the name of your state?

Any legal advice would be greatly appreciated in this awful mess we have on our hands right now. My husband was transferring with his company to a Northern Ky. location and we looked for a home to buy in Ohio that would be within a 30 minute drive. We found a home that had what we thought was everything we needed...ranch with accessibility features for our quadraplegic son, acreage and close proximity to expressways and shopping. The home was built in 1947 by the father of the seller...the seller helped his dad build it, lived in it until the father passed away, then purchased it from his father's estate and then the seller lived in it with wife and six kids for 30 more years until he sold it to us.

The house needed alot of cosmetic work...nothing had been replaced for almost thirty years and it showed! Our realtor advised that we have a full home inspection done along with a septic tank inspection since the seller said the septic tank was the ORIGINAL TANK! We knew from prior experience that tanks usually do not last longer than 20-25 years and this one was well past its life expectancy. In our contract we wrote in that a full home inspection would be done along with a septic inspection..seller agreed. The disclosure form the seller filled out indicated a "septic tank" and nothing more. Home inspection came back with a myriad of things wrong which we worked out with the seller and just before closing our agent contacted the seller's agent to find out about the septic tank inspection and the seller's agent indicated the inspection had been done and nothing was wrong and everything was in working order. We agreed to close. At closing the seller's agent produced copies of everything we had requested and the seller himself made a comment that when the tank was pumped and inspected, the pumper indicated that "this system would last another 20 years!"

Approximately 3 weeks after moving in the house (and after substantial rainfall) the toilet starts gurgling and not flushing properly, gurgling in the sink and water coming up into the tub. We contacted a septic tank company who came out and had to pump the tank out since it was completely full! This tank had just been pumped 3 weeks prior..rule of thumb is one complete pump every 2-3 years depending on the size of the tank and family size (tank is about 1500 gallon and family size is 3 and only 2 of us use the toilet!) The septic tank man tells us that due to the substantial rainfall and our county "having a high water table" we would run into this problem alot and everyone in this county had the same problem..."high water table and clay soil" which makes for alot of septic tank problems. The seller and his agent are familiar with this area and county and we feel they knew of this "problem" but never disclosed it to us....then the real kicker is this....we had more plumbing problems and called a plumber out to take a look and a wooden lid lying on top of the ground on the side of the driveway( which we were told was a cover for what appeared to be a dried up well and which was not discovered or inspected by the home inspector) was actually a "grease trap" or as we call it...a make shift septic system!!!! Basically in order for the regular tank to operate properly, the less dish water and laundry water that flows into the main septic the better off you are..so the seller or his father, we don't know which put this makeshift system in which contains dish water and laundry water and this then runs out into an open trench which is at the back of our property! The plumber said this was totally illegal and if the county health dept. ever found out they would condemn the property until that wastewater was re-connected to the main septic tank which would cost a fortune and the main tank isn't working properly anyway due to the high water table! We also found out that other neighbors in this area have these same things. We contacted our realtor who indicated this should have been disclosed but wasn't and we should pursue this issue legally. Well, we can't afford attorney fees right now but the main tank is backing up again and we only have the one bathroom..it's pretty bad when you have been lied to and then can't bathe or flush a toilet after a hard rain for fear of it all backing up into the house!!

Oh, by the way, the seller's wife came over several weeks ago to pick up a piece of mail and my husband mentioned something to her about the "dried up well" and she knew about it being a "grease trap" and indicated that they had alot of problems with it while they lived here! They knew about this thing but never disclosed it...we think their realtor knew it too, but was anxious to get rid of this "white elephant" so chose not to disclose it! The house had been on the market for 9 months before we bought it! HELP!!!! Do we have an open and shut case for court???

**A: no you do not.

[cazstreet]

May I ask why we would not have a case for court with the non-disclosure of the "greasetrap?" Thanks.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by cazstreet

May I ask why we would not have a case for court with the non-disclosure of the "greasetrap?" Thanks.

**A: I did not state that you did not have a case. Read again.

[Charles11]

Do you know of any current leaks, backups or other material problems with the sewer system servicing the property?Yes No If “Yes”, please describe: __________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ If owner knows of any leaks, backups or other material problems with the sewer system since owning the property (but not longer than the past 5 years), please describe and indicate any repairs completed:_________________________________________________________________________

How did the seller respond to the questions regarding the septic system on the disclosure statement?

You are going to have to contact local septic companies, which as you say are familiar with the conditions, and see what could be done to help improve your system.

Septic tanks are somewhat like a bathroom sink when it is filled up, as you add more water the excess flows into the overflow hole which goes into your drainfield. Solids settle as they go into the tank and when they get high enough, usually after a few years, that is when it needs to get pumped before solids block the outflow. In your case it seems your drainfield is not draining well so water does not properly exit as you add water to the tank.

You may be a candidate for a "mound" type of system where well draining material is brought in and mounded somewhere on the property with the drainfield inside and the effluent is pumped into the field.

[url]http://www.carr.org/cchd/env/newcon/pvtsew.htm[/url]

Chas

[cazstreet]

The seller listed on the disclosure that the septic had only been pumped one time in the 30 years he lived here (seems quite strange though since he raised 6 kids in this house!) and never had any problems with it which we do not believe. It was pumped a week before we moved in and then 3 weeks later our troubles started and it had to be pumped again. It now has to be pumped again (as of today) for a 3rd time in 3 months! We are familiar with the mound systems...cost in this area for them are $20-$30,000 which we don't have! We have discovered in the workshop a piece of equipment which, if we can prove, could possibly be a pump that seller used to pump out the septic on a regular basis into the adjacent 13 acres he owned, that's why he said he only had it pumped professionally 1 time in 30 years...that would be totally illegal and against all environmental and health standards...we just have to prove it! We've been taken to the cleaners!

[Charles11]

Originally Posted by cazstreet

The seller listed on the disclosure that the septic had only been pumped one time in the 30 years he lived here (seems quite strange though since he raised 6 kids in this house!) and never had any problems with it which we do not believe. It was pumped a week before we moved in and then 3 weeks later our troubles started and it had to be pumped again. It now has to be pumped again (as of today) for a 3rd time in 3 months! We are familiar with the mound systems...cost in this area for them are $20-$30,000 which we don't have! We have discovered in the workshop a piece of equipment which, if we can prove, could possibly be a pump that seller used to pump out the septic on a regular basis into the adjacent 13 acres he owned, that's why he said he only had it pumped professionally 1 time in 30 years...that would be totally illegal and against all environmental and health standards...we just have to prove it! We've been taken to the cleaners!

Start assembling all your evidence and getting professional opinions of costs involved. If you are in a smaller town the septic guys may have info on the property so pick their brains when they come out - get names. Talk to neighbors, now that the seller is gone they will probably spill the beans. Document all your activities on paper and by photographs.

It is not believable that a problem of this extent just cropped up overnight.

It sounds as if the pumping that you are doing is just removing water from the tank which at present is acting more like a holding tank since the water does not want to flow out.
You should check to make sure whatever lid they have on the tank is well attached and prevents surface water entry - the last thing you need is more water entering the system.

You could do small claims yourself but with a limit of 3,000 you may well end up in a higher court. Maybe you could find a legal clinic or try the bar association in your county and maybe any local law schools for possible help.

Best -

Chas