Seller refusing to fix roof

[BlazingTurtle]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

In the process of purchasing a house from the owner of the house. The seller bought the house in forclosure and is re-selling it. I met him at the house and did an intial walk through. Yes it did have some reasonable wear and tear as he stated, which a little elbow grease wouldn't fix, but he also stated that everything else was good. The local airport had come in through the development over the last couple years and put sound proofing and central air in all the houses. I asked him if that was completed. He stated it was. I am a first time homebuyer and everything seemed alright to me, or so I thought. I signed an agreement of sale and gave him a 1,500 good faith deposit for the house. We agreed on a price. On the agreement it did state that I was purchasing the house "as is" and that reasonable wear and tear was expected. I went the next day and started the mortgage process. I was approved a week later. The title was looking good and the house appraised above the sale price, so everything seemed in order. Next step was calling my insurance company which I did. The insurance company appraisal guy went out and told my agent that there is no was they can insure me because the roof looks to be 20-25 years old and is falling apart. My agent told me to contact the seller and get a professional roofer to look at it. I contacted the seller and told him I wanted a professional roofer to look at the roof. He agreed to that, but he kept telling me that he could get a paper saying the roof was ok from one of his guys. He was obviously just trying to avoid someone going up there, because I declined his offer and the roofer came to give an estimate. He told me he has no idea how the seller could possibly sell the house with a roof that bad. There was a hole in it down to the wood underneath the shingles and the shingles were so bad they were falling apart as he walked on them. He said it was a definite liability and estimated it costing 2500 to totally repair everything. I called the seller and told him what the roofer said. He refused to pay for the roof to be repaired. He told me he would pay for the supplies and I pay for the labor, but since I bought the house "as is" that it was not his responsibility. I told him no and said I want my good faith deposit back if he is not going to repair the roof, I don't want the house. He refused that as well and pretty much guaranteed me that he would win if it went to court. Any suggestions? There is another issue that I could use to back out of it, but that would take a whole other paragraph. The closing is on Friday, September 29 2006, is there anything I can do to avoid legal?

[PghREA]

You didn't tell us if you had a home inspection by a qualified home inspector.

You also did not not state which option you chose on the sales agreement.

You did however, say that you purchased the house "as is". And having a bad roof is how "it is".

Without seeing the actual agreement of sale, its hard to say if you can get your deposit back.

[BlazingTurtle]

No I did not have an actual home inspection done by a actual home inspector.

There was no option to choose from. The wording stated "as is", with reasonable wear and tear expected.

If I can't get insurance, then I can't get a mortgage. Isn't that my way out, let alone the roof?

[IrishNodak]

What does your contract say? Did you have options in the contract to pull out and get back your earnest money? Such as not being able to get the loan? Or an inspection deadline? If not then you can pull out of the deal but you will lose your money and he may be able to sue you for not going through. What does your agent say?

Not a lawyer...just a recent homebuyer who learned a lot and read much in the process.

[PghREA]

Originally Posted by BlazingTurtle

No I did not have an actual home inspection done by a actual home inspector.

*****First mistake.

There was no option to choose from. The wording stated "as is", with reasonable wear and tear expected.

******There is if you used the PAR (Pennsylvania Association of Realtors) sales agreement.

If I can't get insurance, then I can't get a mortgage. Isn't that my way out, let alone the roof?

Depends on what is written in the sales agreement.

[nextwife]

THe house has an older roof. That does NOT make replacing it the seller's responsibility, unless it is agreed in the contract.

When I bought my house, I observed it had an older roof, but there was no malfunction of the roof. I was already getting roofing estimates while I was waiting to close, and I put a new roof of MY choice and quality on the house a few months after closing. The guy sold you an older house, as is, that does NOT make the roof HIS responsibility.

Call a different insurance agent. I've seen homes with 25 year old roofs insured. Actually, the house across the street from me has a slate tile roof that is nearly 80 years old.

[BlazingTurtle]

It is my choice who I get insurance from, am I wrong? The contract is so vague that it could go either way. I appreciate all of your responses. I was hoping someone would come up with some kind of leg to stand on for me. I refuse to put my baby in a house that has a hole in the roof and the shingles are falling off. The contract doesn't say either way who has responsibility for the roof, but I know if my insurance agent won't give me insurance, I can't get the mortgage. The township that the house is in has a lot of codes that the house is in violation of that I found out yesterday. Depending on what I find out about those, he might not even be allowed to sell the house until he fixes the violations. At this point I just want the good faith deposit back and move on. I hope it works out for my family and I am definitely chalking this one up to a hell of a learning experience in purchasing real estate.

[CraigFL]

Chances are that if you pull out of the deal now you will lose any money you put down and could also be sued for it. When you place an offer on a house and sign a contract to purchase it, it is assumed you have worked out all the details. After you signed the offer and it was accepted, there doesn't have to be any more barganing or concessions for the seller because it is assumed that everything that needs to be in the offer is in the offer. It is not the sellers problem that you didn't consider the problem insuring this home. It now becomes a financial/risk decision for you if you want to continue with the deal-- considering you may lose your deposit and/or lose a lawsuit or find a way to repair the roof to a point where that insurance company(or another) will insure it.

[nextwife]

Originally Posted by BlazingTurtle

It is my choice who I get insurance from, am I wrong? The contract is so vague that it could go either way. I appreciate all of your responses. I was hoping someone would come up with some kind of leg to stand on for me. I refuse to put my baby in a house that has a hole in the roof and the shingles are falling off. The contract doesn't say either way who has responsibility for the roof, but I know if my insurance agent won't give me insurance, I can't get the mortgage. The township that the house is in has a lot of codes that the house is in violation of that I found out yesterday. Depending on what I find out about those, he might not even be allowed to sell the house until he fixes the violations. At this point I just want the good faith deposit back and move on. I hope it works out for my family and I am definitely chalking this one up to a hell of a learning experience in purchasing real estate.

If you were not planning on accepting responsibility for any needed updates repairs as part of your purchase price, why did you not FIRST create a continguency regarding an inspection and correction of certain conditions? WHY would you agree to buy "as is"? As is means you know it may need some things done, but that's ok, you have your own resources and plan to take care iof whatever it needs. My house, again an example of such a purchase, I did the code compliance work after closing and before occupancy. Many code compliance requirements require compliance prior to an occupancy change, not always prior to a conveyance. Buying as is is not uncommon, and the BUYERS DO THE WORK, to their taste, preferences, and even sometimes they physically do it themselves or use their people to do it in such purchases. I do several real estate closing each week for people, and at least one per week is bought in a deferred state in which the buyer will be doing work after closing.


People can and do buy properties that may need updates, and then they make their own arrangements for that work. I see closingfs daily on deferred maintenance properties. Buying a deferred maintenance property does NOT mean they "move their babies into a home with holes in the roof". It means they complete the necessary work before completing any move-in.


Look, this is a USED house. Not a turn-key new construction. You already said you are getting it at better than market price. If it were all updated, perfect and new, you'd be paying way more for it. When you buy a used car, do you expect it to be in new car condition? Or do you EXPECT to be replacing some systems, maybe tires, maybe brakes, because you got it discounted for age and condition?

[Bigfoot]

You're close to having the problem resolved. Since the house has appraised higher than the asking amount, why not have it fixed, with the stipulation that the contractor labor will be paid at closing? The seller is offering to pay for the supplies. At least you'll be satisfied with the quality of the work, because you're choosing a professional, rather than a jackleg that the Seller could hire. Then your insurance company will provide coverage.

[Gadfly]

Let me ask you this; I your insurance company had not required the roof inspection and if the roofer had not told you the roof was bad would you have gone ahead and purchased the house anyway?

Also; You agreed to "as-is" and "normal" wear and tear. Well if the roof is 25-years old and is in the condition of being 25-years old, then that is normal.

From a layman's point of view and without seeing the contract it sounds like you're pretty well locked in.

Now, how about an agreement with the morgtgage/insurance/roofer to bump up the mortgage to cover the cost of the roof and pay the roofer out of closing? Spend the extra money, get the good shingles and you'll be set.