Seller's disclosure missing pages

[ambiguator]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

My partner and I have recently (1 month ago) purchased a new home, only to find that one bathroom has a severely below-code plumbing system and will need to be gutted and re-plumbed. Supposedly the previous owner lived in this home, but there is absolutely no way he could have used the bath - it's not just a drip, but a downpour in our living room. (In other words, he must have known about the issue.) Our home inspector ran the water in the bathroom long enough to notice a "drainage issue", but did not notice many code violations or the leaking ceiling.

When we looked back over the Seller's Disclosure form we received from our Realtor (Buyer's agent, not dual agency), we pages 2 and 3 were missing - the pages that include information about renovations, sewage, water and plumbing.

Does this count as non-disclosure? Who is at fault for the missing 2 pages and what is our recourse? Should we try to obtain the missing pages before starting serious remediation? Should we work through our realtor or do we need to retain a lawyer?

Thanks in advance,
/a

[seniorjudge]

Get the whole disclosure.

Look it over.

Then come back with details.

[ambiguator]

Apparently they don't hang on to these things, so I'll have to go to the seller for the disclosure. My Realtor is suggesting going through an attorney, which I assume means $$...

Can/should I approach the seller/seller's agent directly for the disclosure?

Thanks again

[seniorjudge]

I'd ask everyone till the missing pages show up.

Of course they have to hang on to them!

[ambiguator]

Hi all - thanks for the great advice so far.

So, I've tracked down the complete disclosure, and it notes that the previous owner had the bathroom remodeled, but he did not report the issue we experienced (above) immediately on moving in.

this brings up more questions than it answers:
who do we talk to now? the seller? a lawyer?
how do we prove that this issue did not occur after we moved in?
who is responsible for fixing the shoddy workmanship?

just to throw another kink in the works - the seller says the person who did the repairs is impossible to locate and does not have his contact info.

thanks in advance!
/a

[LindaP777]

Originally Posted by ambiguator

just to throw another kink in the works - the seller says the person who did the repairs is impossible to locate and does not have his contact info.

AHH! Sounds like we have the same plumber!

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by ambiguator

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

My partner and I have recently (1 month ago) purchased a new home, only to find that one bathroom has a severely below-code plumbing system and will need to be gutted and re-plumbed. Supposedly the previous owner lived in this home, but there is absolutely no way he could have used the bath - it's not just a drip, but a downpour in our living room. (In other words, he must have known about the issue.) Our home inspector ran the water in the bathroom long enough to notice a "drainage issue", but did not notice many code violations or the leaking ceiling.

When we looked back over the Seller's Disclosure form we received from our Realtor (Buyer's agent, not dual agency), we pages 2 and 3 were missing - the pages that include information about renovations, sewage, water and plumbing.

Does this count as non-disclosure? Who is at fault for the missing 2 pages and what is our recourse? Should we try to obtain the missing pages before starting serious remediation? Should we work through our realtor or do we need to retain a lawyer?

Thanks in advance,
/a

**A: your Realtor is at fault, should have verified that all pages were present before giving you the document and should have extended the seller disclosure review and acceptance period until the complete set of papers were in your hands.

[HomeGuru]

[quote=ambiguator;1693891]Apparently they don't hang on to these things, so I'll have to go to the seller for the disclosure.

**A: what the f? Who are " they" that you are referring to? Your Realtor should have such documents on file for at least 7 years.

********
My Realtor is suggesting going through an attorney, which I assume means $$...

**A: no, you ask for a meeting with the Realtor's principal broker and the real estate company attorney and your Realtor's company pays for the attorney.

****************

Can/should I approach the seller/seller's agent directly for the disclosure?

**A: why should you when it is both PA real estate law and PA Realtor Code of Ethics that all client docs be obtained in the transaction, copies given to the client etc. Your Realtor messed up big time. And why did you close without a review AND acceptance of the contents of a full set of seller disclosure papers and without confirming the condition of components in the home that are listed in the disclosure sections that you did not receive?

[ambiguator]

OK - addressing a couple points above:

* we did obtain the full seller's disclosure from our Realtor prior to closing on the house, though the copy we retained was missing 2 pages. In other words, we did get the full disclosure before buying, we just didn't keep a copy.

* the seller's agent had retained the entire document, not our agent (both work for the same Realty Company).

* the full disclosure did not list the plumbing issue, but noted that the previous owner paid for the renovation to the bathroom -

i'm putting the rest of this in a new thread since the original point in question is now moot.
Please direct responses to:
[url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1697190#post1697190[/url]

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by ambiguator

OK - addressing a couple points above:

* we did obtain the full seller's disclosure from our Realtor prior to closing on the house, though the copy we retained was missing 2 pages. In other words, we did get the full disclosure before buying, we just didn't keep a copy.

* the seller's agent had retained the entire document, not our agent (both work for the same Realty Company).

* the full disclosure did not list the plumbing issue, but noted that the previous owner paid for the renovation to the bathroom -

i'm putting the rest of this in a new thread since the original point in question is now moot.
Please direct responses to:
[url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1697190#post1697190[/url]

**A: this entire thread is now moot.