So many questions...First time homebuyer

[Disheartened2]

Washington State

I will just ask questions first and explain more later if needed. So here goes.

-Can a realtor refuse to release you from your listing agreement?
-Does a power pole located on my property require an easement?
-We had a deal on our house (which means it wasn't shown during the time it had the deal) until after the deal fell through which happened to be 21 days. Do we have recourse against our real estate company?
-What constitutes misrepresentation of property lines?
-Once any contingencies and the release of the earnest money addendum to the Sales and Purchase Agreement have been signed by both the buyer and seller, can the buyer refuse to pay the earnest money after backing out of the deal based on misrepresented property lines?
-Is an inspector responsible for not finding visible, fatal problems?
-Is the seller responsible for not disclosing certain things he simply "did not know about" (i.e. easement, oil tank)?
-What are the laws and issues with dual agency?
-If we pursued legal action, can the real estate company file bankruptcy and then re-open under another name?

Please help....we got totally screwed.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

Washington State

I will just ask questions first and explain more later if needed. So here goes.

-Can a realtor refuse to release you from your listing agreement?

If you signed a contract (which is what a listing agreement is) you are bound by the terms of the contract. yes a realtor can refuse to release you from it.

-Does a power pole located on my property require an easement?

Where at on the property? Is it on the ROW? A definite maybe.


-We had a deal on our house (which means it wasn't shown during the time it had the deal) until after the deal fell through which happened to be 21 days. Do we have recourse against our real estate company?


No. You had a deal. Why did the deal fall through? I expect you had earnest money given to you.


-What constitutes misrepresentation of property lines?

Try to give a little more information about what the heck you are talking about. Misrep means someone knew something but yet presented it as something else.

-Once any contingencies and the release of the earnest money addendum to the Sales and Purchase Agreement have been signed by both the buyer and seller, can the buyer refuse to pay the earnest money after backing out of the deal based on misrepresented property lines?

Depends. Why wasn't the seller, the seller's agent, or the escrow officer given the earnest money when the Sales and Purchase agreement itself was signed??


-Is an inspector responsible for not finding visible, fatal problems?

What are you talking about?

-Is the seller responsible for not disclosing certain things he simply "did not know about" (i.e. easement, oil tank)?

Depends. Some things the seller is assumed to know about.

-What are the laws and issues with dual agency?

Too much to cover here on an internet site.

-If we pursued legal action, can the real estate company file bankruptcy and then re-open under another name?

Anything is possible but do you really think you can sue -- and win -- that much? You can only ever get your damages.

Please help....we got totally screwed.

You might have and you might not have. Why dont you try asking SPECIFIC questions and not this general stuff.

[Disheartened2]

OK, obviously I need to be much more specific. No need to get hostile.

I guess I don't understand why it matters where the power pole is located on our property? It is not our power pole, it is connected to the dam. The power pole is on what used to be a road many years ago, so I am not sure about the ROW. In what circumstance would the PUD not have to have an easement for a power pole?

The buyer backed out of the deal at the last minute due to a gross misrepresentation of the property lines. Our agent physically showed us our property lines, and upon measurements taken at the buyer's request, we were told that our fence line is 15 feet on PUD land. The buyer had plans to build a shop on that side of the house and once they found out that it wasn't our land, the deal was off. And no, we never received any earnest money. I will get to that in a second.

I know what misrepresentation means. Before purchasing our house, we had our realtor physically show us our property lines. Six months later, with a deal on our house, the perspective buyer was looking at the property lines to make sure the shop would fit. The buyer noticed that something was off on the map that our agent, who was representing both the buyer and seller, provided to him. Upon this realization, the buyer backed out because the property lines were misrepresented to him.

Because our agent was also representing the buyer, he told us that it is common to not get the earnest money at the beginning stages. Our earnest money was $10,000 non-refundable contingent upon the inspection. It was a large sum of money because the buyer didn't want to close for 3-4 months. Not only did our agent not get the earnest money check from the buyer, he told them not to send it...twice. Even after the inspection contingency was released, the money was never sent.

When we purchased our house, our agent chose the inspector. We did not know that we had a choice in the matter. He chose one of his friends who did a terrible job. We did not know this, however, until the last deal on our house when the buyer had another inspection done. The most recent inspection done in December revealed a live wire in the furnace room. This is a room that we access daily and could have easily been electrocuted. This was only one of several problems that he missed. He also did not find an underground oil tank, proper ventilation to the attic, cracks in the foundation, etc. So...is the inspector liable for only the inspection fee or could they be held responsible for repairs on everything that was overlooked?

Anything is possible but do you really think you can sue -- and win -- that much? You can only ever get your damages. Regarding this comment, you obviously do not understand the situation in it's entirety. The person who owns this company has filed bankruptcy before. And winning "that much" is all relative depending on the company. $300,000 is a drop in the bucket to some companies and could very easily bankrupt others. And as far as only being able to recover damages, my list is pretty long. We would not have bought the house knowing the property lines. The dual agency was not explained to us and we got thrown to the wolves so our agent could keep his buyer. Our house has basically been off the market for over a month. We lost a $340,000 deal because our agent misrepresented our property lines.

Does that earnest money belong to us?
Don't we have the right to terminate our listing based on the above issues?
What exactly would damages include?
What liability does the seller have that we bought the house from? When he did not disclose that there was an underground tank. He did not mark "I don't know", he marked "no".
Is dual agency legal in Washington state?

There is much more to the story then we could explain on this website. We are looking for answers to questions that we haven't been able to get straight answers to.

[pojo2]

Not a prayer do you have with that property line discrepancy!

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

OK, obviously I need to be much more specific. No need to get hostile.

I guess I don't understand why it matters where the power pole is located on our property? It is not our power pole, it is connected to the dam. The power pole is on what used to be a road many years ago, so I am not sure about the ROW. In what circumstance would the PUD not have to have an easement for a power pole?

The buyer backed out of the deal at the last minute due to a gross misrepresentation of the property lines. Our agent physically showed us our property lines, and upon measurements taken at the buyer's request, we were told that our fence line is 15 feet on PUD land. The buyer had plans to build a shop on that side of the house and once they found out that it wasn't our land, the deal was off. And no, we never received any earnest money. I will get to that in a second.

I know what misrepresentation means. Before purchasing our house, we had our realtor physically show us our property lines. Six months later, with a deal on our house, the perspective buyer was looking at the property lines to make sure the shop would fit. The buyer noticed that something was off on the map that our agent, who was representing both the buyer and seller, provided to him. Upon this realization, the buyer backed out because the property lines were misrepresented to him.

Because our agent was also representing the buyer, he told us that it is common to not get the earnest money at the beginning stages. Our earnest money was $10,000 non-refundable contingent upon the inspection. It was a large sum of money because the buyer didn't want to close for 3-4 months. Not only did our agent not get the earnest money check from the buyer, he told them not to send it...twice. Even after the inspection contingency was released, the money was never sent.

When we purchased our house, our agent chose the inspector. We did not know that we had a choice in the matter. He chose one of his friends who did a terrible job. We did not know this, however, until the last deal on our house when the buyer had another inspection done. The most recent inspection done in December revealed a live wire in the furnace room. This is a room that we access daily and could have easily been electrocuted. This was only one of several problems that he missed. He also did not find an underground oil tank, proper ventilation to the attic, cracks in the foundation, etc. So...is the inspector liable for only the inspection fee or could they be held responsible for repairs on everything that was overlooked?

Anything is possible but do you really think you can sue -- and win -- that much? You can only ever get your damages. Regarding this comment, you obviously do not understand the situation in it's entirety. The person who owns this company has filed bankruptcy before. And winning "that much" is all relative depending on the company. $300,000 is a drop in the bucket to some companies and could very easily bankrupt others. And as far as only being able to recover damages, my list is pretty long. We would not have bought the house knowing the property lines. The dual agency was not explained to us and we got thrown to the wolves so our agent could keep his buyer. Our house has basically been off the market for over a month. We lost a $340,000 deal because our agent misrepresented our property lines.

Does that earnest money belong to us?
Don't we have the right to terminate our listing based on the above issues?
What exactly would damages include?
What liability does the seller have that we bought the house from? When he did not disclose that there was an underground tank. He did not mark "I don't know", he marked "no".
Is dual agency legal in Washington state?

There is much more to the story then we could explain on this website. We are looking for answers to questions that we haven't been able to get straight answers to.

**A: based on your second sentence, I decided to leave this alone.

[Disheartened2]

I wasn't directing the hostility comment to anyone but Ohiogal. I was hoping that you would offer some insight into our situation. I only wrote in after reading several entries you had made in the hopes of getting your advice. You seem very straightforward and educated, so hopefully you will reconsider and respond.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

I wasn't directing the hostility comment to anyone but Ohiogal.

**A: so, I have a right to review all posts.
*********

I was hoping that you would offer some insight into our situation. I only wrote in after reading several entries you had made in the hopes of getting your advice. You seem very straightforward and educated, so hopefully you will reconsider and respond.

**A: apologize if you want my help.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

OK, obviously I need to be much more specific. No need to get hostile.


I wasn't getting hostile but if you want me I can definitely get there. But it is very hard to understand the situation enough to answer questions when it is all generalities. With general questions the best anyone can do is maybe!


I guess I don't understand why it matters where the power pole is located on our property? It is not our power pole, it is connected to the dam. The power pole is on what used to be a road many years ago, so I am not sure about the ROW. In what circumstance would the PUD not have to have an easement for a power pole?

WEll some people consider the devil strip as their property when in reality it belongs to the city. They just think it is their property because it is in front of their house on the other side of the sidewalk. That is why it matters where on "your" property it is.

The buyer backed out of the deal at the last minute due to a gross misrepresentation of the property lines. Our agent physically showed us our property lines, and upon measurements taken at the buyer's request, we were told that our fence line is 15 feet on PUD land. The buyer had plans to build a shop on that side of the house and once they found out that it wasn't our land, the deal was off. And no, we never received any earnest money. I will get to that in a second.

I know what misrepresentation means. Before purchasing our house, we had our realtor physically show us our property lines. Six months later, with a deal on our house, the perspective buyer was looking at the property lines to make sure the shop would fit. The buyer noticed that something was off on the map that our agent, who was representing both the buyer and seller, provided to him. Upon this realization, the buyer backed out because the property lines were misrepresented to him.

You didn't get a survey to find out the property lines? Guesstimates are a definite no. Surveys are the ONLY way to be sure of where the property lines are. What "map" was the buyer looking at -- a survey?


Because our agent was also representing the buyer, he told us that it is common to not get the earnest money at the beginning stages. Our earnest money was $10,000 non-refundable contingent upon the inspection. It was a large sum of money because the buyer didn't want to close for 3-4 months. Not only did our agent not get the earnest money check from the buyer, he told them not to send it...twice. Even after the inspection contingency was released, the money was never sent.

Earnest money should be received when the purchase agreement is signed. The fact that you didn't raise a stink before now may mean you will never get that money because it would cost more for you to go after it in court than you would get.


When we purchased our house, our agent chose the inspector. We did not know that we had a choice in the matter. He chose one of his friends who did a terrible job. We did not know this, however, until the last deal on our house when the buyer had another inspection done. The most recent inspection done in December revealed a live wire in the furnace room. This is a room that we access daily and could have easily been electrocuted. This was only one of several problems that he missed. He also did not find an underground oil tank, proper ventilation to the attic, cracks in the foundation, etc. So...is the inspector liable for only the inspection fee or could they be held responsible for repairs on everything that was overlooked?

OKay I am confused. Very confused. Are you talking about the house you sold -- when you purchased the house that you just sold the inspector did a bad job? Well that is probably outside the SOL depending how long you lived there before you moved. And any damages could have been caused while you lived there.

Anything is possible but do you really think you can sue -- and win -- that much? You can only ever get your damages. Regarding this comment, you obviously do not understand the situation in it's entirety.

How the heck am I supposed to understand the situation in its entirety when you didn't provide any details. So darn tootin i don't understand the situation in its entirety.

The person who owns this company has filed bankruptcy before. And winning "that much" is all relative depending on the company. $300,000 is a drop in the bucket to some companies and could very easily bankrupt others. And as far as only being able to recover damages, my list is pretty long. We would not have bought the house knowing the property lines.

You should have had a survey. This is not a damage you can recover on. Did you get a title report when you bought the house? Did you read it? When you closed on the house there should have been a survey included.


The dual agency was not explained to us and we got thrown to the wolves so our agent could keep his buyer. Our house has basically been off the market for over a month. We lost a $340,000 deal because our agent misrepresented our property lines.

You are responsible for knowing your own property lines. See above comment about the survey. If you didnt' get a survey that is your fault. The buyer could back out because the property was not as it was presented to him. You are in a position to know what your property lines are by official legal descriptions.

Does that earnest money belong to us?

Depends on the contract. If the buyer backed out for a reason allowed in the contract or allowed by contract law(misrepresentation of what he thought he was buying or even mutual mistake), then no, you are not entitled to it.

Don't we have the right to terminate our listing based on the above issues?

Depends on what you signed with respect the realtor listing your house. You may have a right to complain however you have to be able to prove that the realtor did something wrong and not just that the buyer backed out because the property lines were misrepresented to them. Which brings a question -- who told the realtor where the property lines were?

What exactly would damages include?

Damages would include any money you are out due to the sell not going through -- and no that is not the sales price of the house. Because you still have the house to sell. It would be money you lost due to the sale falling through IF you could prove it was a result of the realtor's negligence or fault. Basically it would be the listing fee, or any other upfront costs paid to the realtor/broker. This is based on average home sales and not yours because i have no idea what your contract says or even what you paid out.



What liability does the seller have that we bought the house from? When he did not disclose that there was an underground tank. He did not mark "I don't know", he marked "no".

Can you prove that he knew? Can you prove that he had knowledge of the underground tank. He was answering to the best of his knowledge. To the best of his knowledge, he did not know. If you know that he did know and lied, then you MIGHT be able to go after him. Of course since the inspector who was hired to inspect the house for you also missed the tank then you probably don't have a case.


Is dual agency legal in Washington state?

I dont know.

There is much more to the story then we could explain on this website. We are looking for answers to questions that we haven't been able to get straight answers to.

You got a bunch of maybes here. If the story is that complicated then you really should sit down with an attorney in your area and talk to them about it.

[Disheartened2]

You are completely right, our situation is complicated. To make a couple things clear.

1.) The power pole is located in the smack middle of our property and is no where near the street.
2.) Our realtor told us that we did not need to get a survey done and that surveys were only done when buying land that hasn't been built on.
3.) The buyer was looking at the map included in the title insurance.
4.) We had been asking about the earnest money from the moment the deal was signed on December 16th. We have been raising a "stink" about it from the beginning and have just gotten the run around.
5.) We have no idea who told our realtor where the property lines were. He either assumed or found out from the selling agent (who is one of his co-workers).
6.) As far as seller responsibility, I asked the question in my first post and you responded with this, "Depends. Some things the seller is assumed to know about." I was just trying to clarify what was "assumed" that the seller should know.

I do have an appointment with an attorney this week. I was hoping to gain some understanding through the advice provided on this website before our meeting. Unfortunately, all I have done is waste my time explaining my situation and I still don't have any answers.

And to HomeGuru, Ohiogal's first response seemed rude. It was my first post on this website and I specifically stated that I was going to ask general questions and then get into details if needed. Your request for an apology is insulting, as anyone can tell from the posts that my hostility comment wasn't directed at you. Don't hold your breath, because you won't be receiving an apology from me in this lifetime.

[Ohiogal]

That's cool if I am rude. Rude enough to take the time to answer not once but twice to your posts and I tried to answer every question. Oh well. I won't be that rude again.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

You are completely right, our situation is complicated. To make a couple things clear.

1.) The power pole is located in the smack middle of our property and is no where near the street.
2.) Our realtor told us that we did not need to get a survey done and that surveys were only done when buying land that hasn't been built on.
3.) The buyer was looking at the map included in the title insurance.
4.) We had been asking about the earnest money from the moment the deal was signed on December 16th. We have been raising a "stink" about it from the beginning and have just gotten the run around.
5.) We have no idea who told our realtor where the property lines were. He either assumed or found out from the selling agent (who is one of his co-workers).
6.) As far as seller responsibility, I asked the question in my first post and you responded with this, "Depends. Some things the seller is assumed to know about." I was just trying to clarify what was "assumed" that the seller should know.

I do have an appointment with an attorney this week. I was hoping to gain some understanding through the advice provided on this website before our meeting. Unfortunately, all I have done is waste my time explaining my situation and I still don't have any answers.

And to HomeGuru, Ohiogal's first response seemed rude. It was my first post on this website and I specifically stated that I was going to ask general questions and then get into details if needed. Your request for an apology is insulting, as anyone can tell from the posts that my hostility comment wasn't directed at you. Don't hold your breath, because you won't be receiving an apology from me in this lifetime.

**A: I did not ask for an apology and could careless what you do or don't do. My post meant that you apologize to Ohiogal. Good luck, you're really going to need it.

[Disheartened2]

Shame on me for thinking that this website was credible. Can't wait to win the case, tell all my friends how terrible this website has been, and move on with my life.

Can't wait for my membership to be cancelled...and you two can go to hell.

[PghREA]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

Shame on me for thinking that this website was credible. Can't wait to win the case, tell all my friends how terrible this website has been, and move on with my life.

Can't wait for my membership to be cancelled...and you two can go to hell.

It's tough when you don't get the answers your looking for. But, that's the chance you take when you ask questions. Sometimes the answers agree with what you think they should be and sometimes, they don't. Too often, people who have no idea about what they are doing get themselves in a jam and end up blaming everyone else for their own stupidity. I hope you keep an open mind and listen to your attorney.

As for your membership, just don't log onto this site, no one here will miss you.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by PghREA

It's tough when you don't get the answers your looking for. But, that's the chance you take when you ask questions. Sometimes the answers agree with what you think they should be and sometimes, they don't. Too often, people who have no idea about what they are doing get themselves in a jam and end up blaming everyone else for their own stupidity. I hope you keep an open mind and listen to your attorney.

As for your membership, just don't log onto this site, no one here will miss you.

PghRea, Just wanted to say I love Pittsburgh. used to live in North Huntingdon (Norwin Schools). How about them Steelers?

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Disheartened2

Shame on me for thinking that this website was credible. Can't wait to win the case, tell all my friends how terrible this website has been, and move on with my life.

Can't wait for my membership to be cancelled...and you two can go to hell.

**A: I've been to hell and back several times but there are other places to vacation.