Undisclosed Septic System

What is the name of your state? Maine

During the purchase, the Realtor's written disclosure signed by the seller said there was a new concrete septic system installed 7 years ago.

In mid August, however, about 6 weeks after the deal closed and we were living in the house for about two weeks, septic problems arose, and we discovered the toilet was attached to a make-shift septic tank; a large oil barrel with a cut-off top and a wooden lid that had decayed through.

From our digging, we also discovered a large concrete tank that appeared to be relatively new, but it was not connected to the toilet. This concrete system appears to be a greywater sytem for the tub, kitchen, and washing machine, but not the toilet.

Additionally, when we called the town office they said they had no record of a system being installed 7 years ago, even though it was required that a permit be obtained to install a system.

I have asked the Realtor to pay to remove anything that is out of code and install a system that is within code. This is because (1) the concrete sytem does not qualify as a "septic" if its only a "greywater" system to which the toilet cannot be connected per code, and (2) the oil barrel system for the toilet is clearly not according to code and it was not disclosed at all. It has failed as well.

The system needs immediate replacement. It has pooled to the surface and the decayed lid is probably not safe to walk over. Winter is also nearby and the potential for ground freeze adds to the urgency. We had it pumped ($135) to help diagnose the problem, but the pooling returned within a few days. This suggests the leach field failed. The tub water has a sulfur odor as well, and so the well may be contaminated.

If the Realtor declines or fails to respond, what approch do you recommend?

Thanks,

bman2030

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by bman2030

What is the name of your state? Maine

During the purchase, the Realtor's written disclosure signed by the seller said there was a new concrete septic system installed 7 years ago.

In mid August, however, about 6 weeks after the deal closed and we were living in the house for about two weeks, septic problems arose, and we discovered the toilet was attached to a make-shift septic tank; a large oil barrel with a cut-off top and a wooden lid that had decayed through.

From our digging, we also discovered a large concrete tank that appeared to be relatively new, but it was not connected to the toilet. This concrete system appears to be a greywater sytem for the tub, kitchen, and washing machine, but not the toilet.

Additionally, when we called the town office they said they had no record of a system being installed 7 years ago, even though it was required that a permit be obtained to install a system.

I have asked the Realtor to pay to remove anything that is out of code and install a system that is within code. This is because (1) the concrete sytem does not qualify as a "septic" if its only a "greywater" system to which the toilet cannot be connected per code, and (2) the oil barrel system for the toilet is clearly not according to code and it was not disclosed at all. It has failed as well.

The system needs immediate replacement. It has pooled to the surface and the decayed lid is probably not safe to walk over. Winter is also nearby and the potential for ground freeze adds to the urgency. We had it pumped ($135) to help diagnose the problem, but the pooling returned within a few days. This suggests the leach field failed. The tub water has a sulfur odor as well, and so the well may be contaminated.

If the Realtor declines or fails to respond, what approch do you recommend?

Thanks,

bman2030

**A: why are you not talking to the Seller and asking them to pay?

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: why are you not talking to the Seller and asking them to pay?

I never had direct contact with the seller prior to closing. All disclosures and negotiations were handled by the seller's agent.

Also, I do not know where the seller is now.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by bman2030

I never had direct contact with the seller prior to closing. All disclosures and negotiations were handled by the seller's agent.

Also, I do not know where the seller is now.

**A: where is your real estate agent? You don't have one?

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: where is your real estate agent? You don't have one?

The same Real Estate Agency had a rep for the seller and and for me the buyer, but I also signed a paper saying my relationship was that of customer only.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by bman2030

The same Real Estate Agency had a rep for the seller and and for me the buyer, but I also signed a paper saying my relationship was that of customer only.

**A: yes, that is the problem. Was not the paper a dual agency disclosure?

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: yes, that is the problem. Was not the paper a dual agency disclosure?

Yes, it was.

[HomeGuru]

Then you need to go after both the Seller and the brokerage company.

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

Then you need to go after both the Seller and the brokerage company.

Thanks.

I would not have expected the brokerage company, though, since they appear to have nothing to do with what the seller disclosed.

Before litigating, I would like to write them a letter that explains the problem and why they should be held responsible.

Is there a law I can cite?

[nextwife]

Gee, wonder how your HOME INSPECTOR missed THAT?

Originally Posted by nextwife

Gee, wonder how your HOME INSPECTOR missed THAT?

There was no visible evidence of a failed septic at the time the Home Inspector was here.

He also had us sign a clause that he was not liable unless a problem was evident to visual inspection.

Since there was no visible pooling until about two weeks after we arrived, I don't think the inspector could have found the problem.

[HomeGuru]

I agree**************.....

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

Then you need to go after both the Seller and the brokerage company.

When I first read this I thought you meant the company that brokered the loan.

A real estate friend pointed out to me that you probably meant the "real estate brokerage." I missed that originally because I have normally used "brokerage" for loan agency stuff.

Anyway, I received a letter today from the manager of the Real Estate company (which I understand to be the same as what you called "the brokerage company").

They said that,

(1) they had no way to know about the oil barrel septic system because there was no visible evidence that could be checked. The system had not failed at any time they had visited the property, which is .

(2) that on my purchase agreement I did not check "yes" that the sale was conditional to a sewage diposal inspection at my expense.

(3) the disclosure says the seller's source was what he knew from the previous seller

Any suggestions?

thanks, bman2030

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by bman2030

When I first read this I thought you meant the company that brokered the loan.

A real estate friend pointed out to me that you probably meant the "real estate brokerage." I missed that originally because I have normally used "brokerage" for loan agency stuff.

**A: your real estate friend is correct.
*******
Anyway, I received a letter today from the manager of the Real Estate company (which I understand to be the same as what you called "the brokerage company").

They said that,

(1) they had no way to know about the oil barrel septic system because there was no visible evidence that could be checked. The system had not failed at any time they had visited the property, which is .

**A: did they bother to investigate with public records? Did they advise you to do so? No, they didn't.
******

(2) that on my purchase agreement I did not check "yes" that the sale was conditional to a sewage diposal inspection at my expense.

**A: did they discuss this with you? Did they at any time advise you to seek legal counsel to review the contract and provide you with legal representation?
**********

(3) the disclosure says the seller's source was what he knew from the previous seller

**Ak, then why did you accept that without doing more investigation?
The information that you discovered at the town office after the fact was the same information that was there before closing.

******
Any suggestions?

**A: hire the attorney that you should have hired before submitting your contract.
********

thanks, bman2030

**A: ok****************************.

Definately ...hire an attorney. Usually if a home has a septic system, there is a clause in the contract that allows you to have the system inspected...both well and septic clause. At least, that is what I've always seen. But, I'm really not sure that you can hold the brokerage firm liable for misrepresentations made by the seller....unless the realtor had actually known. (Good luck proving that one.) But, the realtor represented the buyer and not you !!! The realtor had no fiduciary responsibilities to you and that is why you should have had agent representation. Although, the agent has the responsibility of disclosing material facts, actually known by the agent, to you. If the agent did not know this.....not sure that you can really hold him/her responsible. After all, he/she is a realtor, not a home inspector, not a septic or well inspector. At the very least, you should have had an attorney review the contract. Some states, like Colorado, do not allow an agent to act as a dual agent for both buyer and seller. Not sure what your laws are. But, seek an attorney immediately !!!!