Who is the bad guy, here ?

[Cedrus]

What is the name of your state? Oregon

Cast of characters:
A Original owner 1993 to 2003
B Second owner 2003 to 2006
C Third owner (us) 2006 to present
D R/E broker Seller's agent for A and B

Original owner built home in 1993 and added a "cottage" in 2000. It has electrical but no water or septic hook-up. It was built WITHOUT any permits, including no electrical permit.

When C bought from B, the disclosure statement said nothing about unpermitted structures or any material defects. We found out about permit problem when we applied for a permit to improve the cottage.

I asked D what he knew about permits and he played dumb and did not answer.

So now I find that the cottage was not constructed with the proper lateral or shear wall strength. This means additional walls, foundation, plans, etc., including getting the electrical permitted.

I sent D a registered letter, return receipt requested, laying out what has surfaced and asking specifically for disclosure info relating to the sale from A to B. Also asked him for $4100 to cover the costs, not of the remodeling, but to bring the cottage up to code.

I can't locate A to ask what they know about the unpermitted cottage and if it was mentioned on their disclosure statement.

D has not yet replied, but I can guess what his answer will be. He is a small agency not affiliated with a major player.

Have not yet asked B about this and what his copy of disclosure statement says when he bought from A. Guess that should be my next step. (?)

If D balks, do I contact the Oregon Real Estate Agency who oversees brokers? Or just get a lawyer? Or what?

Many thanks

[FlyingRon]

I can't see how you have any action other than against B. Why did you start with people who have no contractural obligation to you. Houses are generally as is other than requiring disclosures. Those disclosures are made by the seller, not some ancient owner, and not some real estate agent (unless you can prove he somehow participated in the supressing of the known defect).

[JETX]

What EXACTLY were you told as to the 'cottage'??
Were you TOLD that it was suitable for occupancy??

[nextwife]

Exactly. The existence of an outbuilding, such as a cottage does NOT mean that building was ever meant as a residence. I know someone who has a lovely boathouse down the bluff from their home on Lake Michigan, and it's sole function is a changing and warming room, and a quiet place to read , have coffee and look at the lake. It has no plumbing, nor plumbing permits, as it has never been meant as a residence of any kind.

[Cedrus]

MLS Listing says: "Improvements: Extra Living" and " Out Building Size 12 x 16". Also says "Formal garden house could be used as artist retreat or guest quarters and has separate electric meter". Print flyer says "...with garden house"

We spoke to B one time before we made an offer and the subject was not broached as to legality. We peeked in the window and it was finished off nicely. It is well built (to the uneducated eye) and looks like a "cottage".

We never did meet D. We went back to CA to close escrow and our agent up here handled the sale. We were 425 miles south and did not return until move-in day.

Does the MLS/flyer wording constitute misrepresentation?

[FlyingRon]

MLS listings generally have no bearing. They are just advertisements and advise you to verify the facts specified. It appears to be that you failed to due proper due diligence. Generally there are LOTS of things you have to do to make a SECOND living unit on a property. Not only is the thing that compliant with codes for a residence but zoning may preclude you actually trying to move someone in there.

If the seller didn't represent the out building as being an additional residence, there's no need for them to disclaim that it wasn't. Generally you don't expect such to be. We frequently fine uninhabitable house trailers on properties here, or instance just used as storage.\

You could try an action against B for misrepresenting it as living space if they did such a representation, but I think your chances are slim.

[Cedrus]

Thanks for your comments.

Here is my thinking: B did not mention an un-permitted structure to C, because D and A conspired not to mention it on their disclosure statement to B in 2003. It did not occur to B that the structure was unpermitted and he did not do a check at the County. Nor did I.

I have tried google and zaba search and cannot locate A.

I might have located B, in California, but he gets the benefit of the doubt, so far, until D replies (or does not reply).

If B and D do not send me a copy of their disclosure statement from their 2003 transaction, how do I get it? Lawyer, narrative or thru the Oregon Real Estate Agency?

Thanks

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by JETX

What EXACTLY were you told as to the 'cottage'??
Were you TOLD that it was suitable for occupancy??

I don't see where you ever answered this.

What IN WRITING were you told?

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by Cedrus

...
Original owner built home in 1993 and added a "cottage" in 2000. It has electrical but no water or septic hook-up. It was built WITHOUT any permits, including no electrical permit.
...

You will still be responsible for getting the building up to snuff.

It is up to buyers to make sure the zoning, permits, etc. are all okay.

[Cedrus]

seniorjudge:

I was told nothing, verbally, about the cottage.

In writing, the disclosure statement said zilch about un-permitted buildings or material defects.

In writing, was in my 2/10 post. MLS and flyer blurbs.

You know and I know that A and/or D either conspired to keep this material defect from B, or that A kept quiet and D did not ask.

How am I going to get the 2003 disclosure statement to see for myself?

[xylene]

Originally Posted by Cedrus

seniorjudge:

I was told nothing, verbally, about the cottage.

In writing, the disclosure statement said zilch about un-permitted buildings or material defects.

In writing, was in my 2/10 post. MLS and flyer blurbs.

You know and I know that A and/or D either conspired to keep this material defect from B, or that A kept quiet and D did not ask.

It is what you can prove.

How am I going to get the 2003 disclosure statement to see for myself?

And when / if you get that... you would have any proof that A B or D are liable.

If you want to renovate the cottage, the one who pays is you.

You could also tear the cottage down.