15 yr. Old Wants To Live With Father ASAP

[hdsjunk]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

My husband and live in Indiana (as well as his ex). They have a 15-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old son that the mother has custody of. Approximately 3 weeks ago the daughter asked to come live with us, and we advised her to ask her mom (to try and avoid conflict). Her mother requested time to think about it, and even attended a counseling appointment with her daughter to see if she was just "confused". The counselor stated that he thought the daughter had good reasons for wanting to move, but that the mother should come back to see him because she is not dealing with it well. Despite the counselor advise, she came back to my husband and said that she would not allow her daughter to move. This was 3 weeks after the request was made. My husband tried everything to get her to agree. He even offered to pay the same amount of child support regardless that he would have custody of his daughter. Some of the reasons for her wanting to move are as follows:

1. She feels that her father and I provide a more stable home. She is given a lot of freedom at her mothers, and has proven to make poor choices with it. For example my husband and I do not allow her to spend the night at a friends house without speaking to the parents of the friend to obtain emergency numbers and what not. At her mothers, she is allowed to go without any question. Recently she had sex for the first time with a 21 year old that she had been seeing and talking to for months, and spent 2 nights alone with him and the mother had no idea.

2. She feels that my husband and I provide more structure. We expect homework to be completed when returning home from school, we eat dinner as a family, we attend church as a family, and we always have 1 night a week and 1 week a summer that we do a family activity/vacation. Her mother does not take a lot of interest in what is going on with the kids, and they spend a lot of time doing their own things.

3. She does not like the school that she is currently attending (however she has never attended the school in our area). I can't really give specifics about this. She talks to her dad about this a lot.

Basically, I her words "I want to be a normal kid in a normal family."

Here are questions that my husband and I have:
1. Are her reasons adequate for a judge to allow the change in custody?

2. Will the fact that she has a brother that still resides with the mother be a factor?

3. She is currently out of school for the summer, and would like to have this done by August 18th to start school at her father’s house. How reasonable is this? My husband sees a lawyer today, is there anything we can say to him that will get this thing done ASAP (i.e. Emergency Hearing?)? My husband and his ex have always gotten along as far a visitation with their kids, but just this past weekend (the mothers weekend), she allowed the son to come out an extra overnight to attend a race with his father. However, when the daughter requested to come out, she said, "No, it’s not his weekend".

4. My husband and I have custodial rights of a 17 year old boy. He is a friend of my husband’s son, and came out for weekend visits quite often (him and his mother once lived with my husbands ex). He had been in some trouble (assault), and was ready to repeat his freshman year for a 3rd time when he asked to live with us. His mother agreed, and he has never had a relationship with his father. He moved in October 04, and is doing very well. With a lot of work he'll be a sophomore next year. When he moved in we rearranged the bedrooms so that my husbands daughter's room and the boys room were on separate floors of the house. In addition, the two of them have never been left alone at home (I am a stay-at-home mom) or anywhere else. Can the mother use the 17 year old against us in court?

5. Can the mother make the court proceedings drag on by asking for continuances and what not? Can my husband prevent this by proving that he has tried to work with her?

6. This is mostly for me. I have went out of my way to make my husbands ex feel comfortable with me being a part of her kids' lives, I don't attend any events that are geared for parents. I always make sure that they have a gift for her birthday and Mother's Day, I always make the kids feel comfortable to talk about things they may do with their mom and how she is doing. Basically, I don't want to make her uncomfortable, because I feel that her and I get along pretty good, and that it helps the kids. My question is should I attend any or all of the court proceedings? I want the judge to see what our family is truly like (I being part of that), but at the same time I don't want the mother to feel as if I'm trying to shove anything down her throat. What is the proper thing to do?

I know this is long, and I'm sorry for that, but I hope someone has some good advise to give. My husband and I don't think that the mother is unfit when it comes to providing what the children need, but we don't always agree with her parenting choices. There are many other examples I could provide, but I would hope that it is not necessary in order to keep peace. Thank you for your time and advise.

Heidi

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

My husband and live in Indiana (as well as his ex). They have a 15-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old son that the mother has custody of. Approximately 3 weeks ago the daughter asked to come live with us, and we advised her to ask her mom (to try and avoid conflict). Her mother requested time to think about it, and even attended a counseling appointment with her daughter to see if she was just "confused". The counselor stated that he thought the daughter had good reasons for wanting to move, but that the mother should come back to see him because she is not dealing with it well. Despite the counselor advise, she came back to my husband and said that she would not allow her daughter to move. This was 3 weeks after the request was made. My husband tried everything to get her to agree. He even offered to pay the same amount of child support regardless that he would have custody of his daughter. Some of the reasons for her wanting to move are as follows:

1. She feels that her father and I provide a more stable home. She is given a lot of freedom at her mothers, and has proven to make poor choices with it. For example my husband and I do not allow her to spend the night at a friends house without speaking to the parents of the friend to obtain emergency numbers and what not. At her mothers, she is allowed to go without any question. Recently she had sex for the first time with a 21 year old that she had been seeing and talking to for months, and spent 2 nights alone with him and the mother had no idea.

2. She feels that my husband and I provide more structure. We expect homework to be completed when returning home from school, we eat dinner as a family, we attend church as a family, and we always have 1 night a week and 1 week a summer that we do a family activity/vacation. Her mother does not take a lot of interest in what is going on with the kids, and they spend a lot of time doing their own things.

3. She does not like the school that she is currently attending (however she has never attended the school in our area). I can't really give specifics about this. She talks to her dad about this a lot.

Basically, I her words "I want to be a normal kid in a normal family."

Here are questions that my husband and I have:
1. Are her reasons adequate for a judge to allow the change in custody?

2. Will the fact that she has a brother that still resides with the mother be a factor?

3. She is currently out of school for the summer, and would like to have this done by August 18th to start school at her father’s house. How reasonable is this? My husband sees a lawyer today, is there anything we can say to him that will get this thing done ASAP (i.e. Emergency Hearing?)? My husband and his ex have always gotten along as far a visitation with their kids, but just this past weekend (the mothers weekend), she allowed the son to come out an extra overnight to attend a race with his father. However, when the daughter requested to come out, she said, "No, it’s not his weekend".

4. My husband and I have custodial rights of a 17 year old boy. He is a friend of my husband’s son, and came out for weekend visits quite often (him and his mother once lived with my husbands ex). He had been in some trouble (assault), and was ready to repeat his freshman year for a 3rd time when he asked to live with us. His mother agreed, and he has never had a relationship with his father. He moved in October 04, and is doing very well. With a lot of work he'll be a sophomore next year. When he moved in we rearranged the bedrooms so that my husbands daughter's room and the boys room were on separate floors of the house. In addition, the two of them have never been left alone at home (I am a stay-at-home mom) or anywhere else. Can the mother use the 17 year old against us in court?

5. Can the mother make the court proceedings drag on by asking for continuances and what not? Can my husband prevent this by proving that he has tried to work with her?

6. This is mostly for me. I have went out of my way to make my husbands ex feel comfortable with me being a part of her kids' lives, I don't attend any events that are geared for parents. I always make sure that they have a gift for her birthday and Mother's Day, I always make the kids feel comfortable to talk about things they may do with their mom and how she is doing. Basically, I don't want to make her uncomfortable, because I feel that her and I get along pretty good, and that it helps the kids. My question is should I attend any or all of the court proceedings? I want the judge to see what our family is truly like (I being part of that), but at the same time I don't want the mother to feel as if I'm trying to shove anything down her throat. What is the proper thing to do?

I know this is long, and I'm sorry for that, but I hope someone has some good advise to give. My husband and I don't think that the mother is unfit when it comes to providing what the children need, but we don't always agree with her parenting choices. There are many other examples I could provide, but I would hope that it is not necessary in order to keep peace. Thank you for your time and advise.

Heidi

It all boils down to two factors:

1.) Does the situation meet the criteria for your state's law re; Change of Circumstance? (Look up the guideline)

2.) Children do not 'choose' until they are 18 (with the exception of, I believe, Missouri) Sometimes, depending on the maturity level of the child and the reasons...the child's wishes will be considered by the court, but are not the determining factor. Especially with teens because they can be fickle and have a history of splitting parents.

Otherwise, you'd have to prove the Custodial Parent unfit in order to change custody.

 

[Zephyr]

I think mom lacking supervision enough for the girl to be sexually abused (and that is what it is when a 21 year old has sex with a 13 year old) might be substantial enough to get the ball rolling.

I hope somebody involved with this girl file statutory rape charges.

 

[hdsjunk]

It all boils down to two factors:

1.) Does the situation meet the criteria for your state's law re; Change of Circumstance? (Look up the guideline)

2.) Children do not 'choose' until they are 18 (with the exception of, I believe, Missouri) Sometimes, depending on the maturity level of the child and the reasons...the child's wishes will be considered by the court, but are not the determining factor. Especially with teens because they can be fickle and have a history of splitting parents.

Otherwise, you'd have to prove the Custodial Parent unfit in order to change custody.

1.) Yes, we meet the criteria (i.e. child wishes and parent wishes).
2.) I figured it wasn't her choice completely, it just states that "substantial consideration" will be given for children 14-years-old or older.

I was hoping the "unfit" wouldn't come up. I haven't been able to find anything that defines what "unfit" would be. She provides for them quite well (i.e. food, clothing, shelter, no abuse, etc.). There are things that have happened, but I don't know if they would classify as unfit. For example:

1. She bought cigarettes for my husband’s daughter when she went through a "smoking phase".

2. She allows both kids to miss school on a regular basis without any reason.

3. She doesn't communicate everything to my husband. For example she knows that her son has been drunk and passed out at a party, but never told my husband.

I sure don't want it to get ugly. What do you think?

 

[Zephyr]

custody battles are ugly, unless everyone is in agreement, it will be ugly

 

[amiegaines654]

1.) Yes, we meet the criteria (i.e. child wishes and parent wishes).
2.) I figured it wasn't her choice completely, it just states that "substantial consideration" will be given for children 14-years-old or older.

I was hoping the "unfit" wouldn't come up. I haven't been able to find anything that defines what "unfit" would be. She provides for them quite well (i.e. food, clothing, shelter, no abuse, etc.). There are things that have happened, but I don't know if they would classify as unfit. For example:

1. She bought cigarettes for my husband’s daughter when she went through a "smoking phase".

2. She allows both kids to miss school on a regular basis without any reason.

3. She doesn't communicate everything to my husband. For example she knows that her son has been drunk and passed out at a party, but never told my husband.

I sure don't want it to get ugly. What do you think?

.


Ok, question: Are these the daughters wishes, or yours? If they are the daughters wishes, she sounds very mature ie. wanting more structure, and disipline. The way you have posted everything sounds like your wishes. If everything you say is true, it may be time to get ugly!
Cigarettes for a 15 year old is illegal!!!
Missing school on a regular basis for no reason is very very bad, and can be viewed as neglect.
Also the sex with a 21 year old is a very very big deal, and someone needs to do something about it. Someone also needs to instill some better values in this girl so she isn't always looking for love from an older man!!!!!

 

[hdsjunk]

I think mom lacking supervision enough for the girl to be sexually abused (and that is what it is when a 21 year old has sex with a 13 year old) might be substantial enough to get the ball rolling.

I hope somebody involved with this girl file statutory rape charges.

Thank you. The girl is 15. The boy is 13. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my lengthy post. I know it is still against the law. My husband’s ex-wife called the police, and they took a statement from her this past Sunday. The plan was that he would be arrested, and that my husband's daughter would testify in court. She is really uncomfortable about testifying, and we don't know what to do for her (i.e. do we make her testify or not?). This all goes in hand with why she wants to move in with her father. At her mother's she talked on the phone with him until wee hours in the morning, she skipped school to be with him (the mother didn't catch on because she had let her stay home from school so often), and she frequently stayed the night at his sister's house so they could meet (her mother never checked with the parents before hand). When she would visit her father and I, we never allowed her to be on the phone past 10 p.m. and she would only spend the night with a friend if my husband were able to speak to their parents and/or meet them if he had not met them before. I know if sounds bad, but is it really considered "unfit"?

 

[hdsjunk]

.


Ok, question: Are these the daughters wishes, or yours? If they are the daughters wishes, she sounds very mature ie. wanting more structure, and disipline. The way you have posted everything sounds like your wishes. If everything you say is true, it may be time to get ugly!
Cigarettes for a 15 year old is illegal!!!
Missing school on a regular basis for no reason is very very bad, and can be viewed as neglect.
Also the sex with a 21 year old is a very very big deal, and someone needs to do something about it. Someone also needs to instill some better values in this girl so she isn't always looking for love from an older man!!!!!

These are genuinely her wishes. She has always talked about living with her father since middle school, but this is the first time that she has actually asked her mom's permission, and is comfortable with the thought of going to court. She is a very mature young lady. I too agree that these are very bad, but are it substantial enough? The mother doesn’t know that my husband knows about all of these things. He has been fortunate enough to have children that are concerned about one another, and are very open about what goes on at their mother's home.

 

[amiegaines654]

Well, she does sound mature, but not mature enough to have sex with a 21 year old, and your husband needs to make that very very clear!!!!

In my non-legal opinion, you need to do everything in your power to remove his daughter from her mothers home. While you are at it, go for custody of the 13 yr. boy as well. IMO, she sounds like she is on the line of being unfit. Speak with an attorney, but if it isn't a safe place for the girl, it isn't safe for the boy either!!!!

IMO-which doesn't mean squat legally-the mother is neglecting to raise these kids in the fashion that a court would like, so I believe that you must do everything you can to make a change of some sort!

 

[casa]

1.) Yes, we meet the criteria (i.e. child wishes and parent wishes).
2.) I figured it wasn't her choice completely, it just states that "substantial consideration" will be given for children 14-years-old or older.

I was hoping the "unfit" wouldn't come up. I haven't been able to find anything that defines what "unfit" would be. She provides for them quite well (i.e. food, clothing, shelter, no abuse, etc.). There are things that have happened, but I don't know if they would classify as unfit. For example:

1. She bought cigarettes for my husband’s daughter when she went through a "smoking phase".

2. She allows both kids to miss school on a regular basis without any reason.

3. She doesn't communicate everything to my husband. For example she knows that her son has been drunk and passed out at a party, but never told my husband.

I sure don't want it to get ugly. What do you think?

The criteria for "Change of Circumstance" is not the child's wishes or one parent's wishes.

Go to Indiana Family Law Code online and look up "Change of Circumstance" relating to child custody. ie; usually it's abuse, neglect etc. etc.

 

[tigger22472]

First, Casa, just to clarify the state that does allow to choose before 18 is Georgia at 14

Secondly, all the other issues aside, it sounds to me that even if the daughter says these are the reasons why she wants to live there, it boils down that she's saying those things so your husband will look at it that way. I seriously doubt a 15 year old girl will say she wants you to ride her about getting her homework done and who her friends' parents are. I have known a many teenagers and although it's not unheard of, it is rare and kids know how to say what you want to hear.

Thirdly, OP, in your original post you sure gave mom a hard time for not doing as the counselor suggested. All you said was the counselor said the daughter had good reason or good points for wanting to, that doesn't mean mom had to. I do think mom did a good thing taking her to that counselor and who's to say after hearing that mom won't change things there.

You say you don't want this to get ugly and yet you give mom such a hard time about not just turning her child over to you and your home. Put yourself in mom's shoes. Her child has said she doesn't want to live with her and the child has the means to try and attempt to make that happen. That's slapping mom in the face and saying "you suck as a parent".... Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, I don't know, I don't live there. But I doubt there is any parent out there that would feel very good if you were in mom's shoes right now.

Dad has the right and ability to take this back to court but I will warn you it can be an uphill battle. What county are you dealing with in Indiana because I can tell you from experience that there are at least 2 counties I know of in this state that are very pro-mom.

 

[casa]

This is from Indiana Family Court site:


The court can change custody even if both parents don’t agree. However, it is difficult to get a court to change custody, because courts don’t like to move children around a lot.

You will need to prove that it is in the best interests of the child to change custody AND that there has been a substantial change in one or more of these factors:

The age and sex of the child.
The wishes of the child's parent or parents.
The wishes of the child, with more consideration given to the child's wishes if the child is at least fourteen (14) years of age.
The interaction and interrelationship of the child with the child’s parents, siblings and other people who affect the child’s best interests.
The child's adjustment to the child's home, school, and community.
The mental and physical health of all individuals involved.
Evidence of a pattern of domestic or family violence by either parent.
Evidence that the child has been cared for by someone other than a parent for at least six months to a year, depending on the child’s age. This person is called a “de facto custodian”. If there is a “de facto custodian,” the court shall consider:
The wishes of the child's de facto custodian.
The extent to which the child has been cared for, nurtured, and supported by the de facto custodian.
The intent of the child's parent in placing the child with the de facto custodian.
The circumstances under which the child was allowed to remain in the custody of the de facto custodian, including whether the child was placed with the de facto custodian to allow the parent now seeking custody to work, look for work, or go to school.

 

[amiegaines654]

Actually, it's called truancy.

Yep, and some parents can go to jail if their children have a certain amout of unexcused absenses. Depending on the OP's definition of regular basis (I take that to mean pretty often) educational neglect CAN be viewed as negelect. I consider education as a pretty big part of rasing a child, and if a parent "She allows both kids to miss school on a regular basis without any reason", I consider that neglect. Now did I say it was a reason to change custody, no, but I do think it is something worth looking into.

 

[hdsjunk]

First I would like to say “Thank you!” to all those that gave advise or thoughts whether they were encouraging or not.

************************************************************************
This is for tigger22472 –
It is amazing how you attempted to interpret my post the way you wanted to. I did not place a post full of lies on this forum in order to get the response and/or answers I wanted. I was completely honest in hopes of finding advise from people with similar experiences. Although you may find it hard to believe that a 15-year-old wants more direction in her life, it is true. We are talking about the same girl that constantly worries about whether or not her mother tans to much, gets enough sleep between work and a 1-year-old, or has enough money to even afford a lawyer.

O.K., so the counselor said that she had good points for wanting to move, and that he felt that it wouldn’t be a bad thing. He also spoke about how he could tell that the both of them loved each other very much and did not want to hurt one another. I’m sorry I couldn’t provide the entire manuscript. I agree that the mother did a good thing by taking her daughter to the counselor. After the counselor appointment (on a Tuesday) she asked to meet with my husband on Sunday to talk about their daughter moving. My husband seemed to think that they were going to come to an agreement. That was until the mother called on Friday to say that she changed her mind, and was not letting her move. When my husband asked why, she said, “I just don’t want her to leave.”

The “Put yourself in mom’s shoes.” statement insults me. I have went out of my way to make her feel comfortable with me being part of her kids’ lives for the past six years of my life, and will always continue to do so. I can only imagine her pain, but at what point do you stop thinking about yourself, and focus on your children. My husband is trying to avoid the "you suck as a parent" perception because the children do not want her to know that they have told their father everything she had told them not to. Up to this point my husband has simply tried to keep the peace by negotiating the best possible solution for everyone. He has offered everything from no change in child support to allowing his daughter to return home to her mother if she is not happy with him. What is he suppose to do when his 15-year-old daughter asks to come live with him? Ignore her wishes if the mother doesn’t agree?

And last, but not least…the court proceedings will take place in Allen County. I will wait patiently for your reply as to how this is one of the counties that are “pro-mom”. The whole “pro-mom” thing is completely uncalled for. I did not make this into a mom vs. dad thing, you did. Up to this point all parties have gotten along just fine. If I wanted to make this into a mom bashing marathon I would have started right out of the gate by saying:
1. Her live in boyfriend is closer in age to her daughter then herself.
2. Both kids had to endure the pain of hearing their mother and boyfriend have sex on a regular basis.
3. Her live in boyfriend once smoked pot in their basement on a regular basis until she got pregnant, and had to move her son’s bedroom downstairs.
4. Her daughter is an acting surrogate mother whenever it is not convenient for her to not be one herself.
5. She bought her daughter cigarettes when she went through a smoking phase.
6. She allows both kids to miss school on a regular bases. Like when her son had in school suspension the last day of school for lighting a lighter at school that she had washed, and returned back to him without question.

Shall I go on, or are you happy now…
************************************************************************

As for all those that came her for legitimate advice or information, I will continuously post updates of my husband’s situation as it occurs (encouraging or not) in hopes of helping someone else.

Update 06/15/05 – My husband officially retained a lawyer yesterday, and all papers have been generated. The lawyer will be sending them to all appropriate parties today. My husband will then wait until the court receives contact from the mother as to whether or not she will contest.

Until the next update, good luck to all…
Heidi

 

[LdiJ]

I am going to throw in a few things that haven't really been addressed, that I think are quite significant.

She had sex with a 21 year old man. It is very important that you all, including her, follow through on the legal action that is being taken against him, as well as the counseling for her.

The fact that you have a non-related 17 year old boy living in your home is also a signficant factor. It becomes even more significant since its known that she has been sexually active.

Her reasons for wishing to move do sound very mature....however that is assuming that they really are her wishes and not your husband's interpretation of her wishes. Based on what is going on with her I think that there is probably alot more to her wishes than the reasons she has stated.

I am basing this opinion on the fact that I have a teenage daughter who has dealt with some "issues". I think that what she is really trying to do is "run away" from the current school she is attending.....because of the legal issues against the 21 year old boy. Because the boy's sister was formerly her friend (she won't be anymore of course, because of the actions being taken against her brother). Basically, its likely that the whole school is going to find out about the issue....and that people are going to "take sides"....that is what teenagers do. That can be really difficult for a teenager to deal with and its very normal to want to avoid the whole mess by going to a different school.

However I honestly think this one is going to be a "best interests" case and her wishes will not factor as heavily as the might, otherwise. I say that because there are factors that make both homes less than ideal.

There is also almost no chance, even with a great attorney, of getting this accomplished before school starts, without mom's agreement. If the school issue really is the "biggie" for the child....like I am guessing, there may be other options.

How far apart do you and mom live from each other?