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733 Eval Salvation, BUT HELP!

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psfunkytek

Guest
What is the name of your state? CA

I've been involved in a custody case for about two years and a custody evaluation was ordered, but the evaluator didn't do her job (she gave a "book report" of he said she said and failed to analyse the documentation in the case). Finally, after having paid over $10,000 for a 733 Review, I have a real analysis. Unfortunately, the analysis of the psych testing and documentation the 733 Evaluator believes that dad has Narcissistic Personality Disporder and step mom has Histrionic Personality Disorder (given she has been accused, innapropriate sexual behavior towards our child, I find this terribly disturbing).

In CA, an evaluator cannot make an official diagnosis or recommendations on parties they did not evaluate, they can only give analysis and opinion of what the fact suggest. Now I'm struggeling to present a parenting plan at trial that allows for our child to have a relationship with her dad, and maybe more importantly her half brother, while protecting her from potential emotional (or other) damage of these disorders.

I'm frustrated because evaluations are so top secret, I can't seem to find out what type of recommendations are generally made when "functional" personality disorders such as these are present. I don't want to go into court sounding unreasonable and inflexible, but I also don't want to ignore the impact this has.

NPD diagnosis seem to be somewhat common, but this other diagnosis is much less common. If anyone has ANY experience with desiging a parenting plan when these types of issues were present, I'd like to know what they are. Were overnights restricted or long stay's restricted? Was counseling court ordered ordered and if so how long?

I have a few suggestions from my attorney and the 733 evaluator, but unfortunately, they don't have any "case experience", just anecdotal opinions.

For Reference, here are the primary symptoms of HPD:

(1) is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
(2) interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
(3) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
(4) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
(5) has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
(6) shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
(7) is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
(8) considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are


Additional Information on HPD
http://topcondition.com/images/mymindfield/histrionic_personality_disorder.htm

Additional Information on NPD
http://topcondition.com/images/mymindfield/narcissistic_personality_disorde.htm

Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate any input or referrals.
 


weenor

Senior Member
I am familiar with these disorders in custody cases. However the diagnosis of personality disorders in and of itself is not a basis for restricting a parenting plan. Honestly the evaluator should be making recommendations either to the judge or to a GAL. The reason is that the evaluator will have to render a professional opinion with regard to the severity of those disorders in each individual and the possible affect on parenting skills. You really aren't qualified to make a parenting plan in this case.

In our case, ex was diagnosed with Boderline and Histrionic Disorders, but she has been hospitalized 3 times in the last year when her disorders got out of control (she was cutting). Her visitation is suspended indefinitely because medical records indicate she is a danger. We do anticipate that the judge will eventually grant supervised visitation. In your case, absent recent hospitalizations the diagnoses propounded by the evaluator may not be sufficiently sever to warrant strictly supervised visitations. It would appear that your ex and his wife are functioning relatively normally so absent a evidence of a perceived danger, the judge is unlikely to require supervision.

What does your attorney say?
 
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psfunkytek

Guest
Thanks, your feedback is very helpful

My attorney isn't sure (he's a divorce attorney, but lacks experience in complex disupted custody cases). The 733 Evaluator isn't recommending supervised visitation at this point, his recommendation was that I retain primary physical custody. His report states (and I'm paraphrasing) he sees no reason to limit reasonable visitation, but that that trial judge should be use caution in evaluating the visitation plan of the father because the demands of a NPD are likely to be selfish and will not consider the best interest of the child and that his way of presenting the facts are likely to be deceptive.

California evaluation rules of court do not allow for an evaluator to make recomendations for parties they did not evaluate (in this case, my ex cooperated with the 730 Evaluator, but not the 733 because he was content with the findings of the 730 evaluator) so all the 733 Evaluator could do was to point out the patterns of behavior that could be expected from persons with these types of personality disorder profiles and the potential impact on our child based on his interviewing of the child and collaterals. Nobody is suggesting eliminating visitation or even supervised visitation. Our child is already in counseling to help with her coping, but I'd like to getting some court ordered counseling, and I'm wondering if I should request that weekends be from saturday morning to sunday night to minimize the overnights and possibly to limit extended stays (which usually turn our child into a basket case). I don't think there will be a change in the primary physical, but I'm looking for a parenting plan that has shorter, more frequent visits instead of the longer ones, but I want to make sure it's something a judge would think was reasonable.

Thanks.
 

casa

Senior Member
psfunkytek said:
My attorney isn't sure (he's a divorce attorney, but lacks experience in complex disupted custody cases). The 733 Evaluator isn't recommending supervised visitation at this point, his recommendation was that I retain primary physical custody. His report states (and I'm paraphrasing) he sees no reason to limit reasonable visitation, but that that trial judge should be use caution in evaluating the visitation plan of the father because the demands of a NPD are likely to be selfish and will not consider the best interest of the child and that his way of presenting the facts are likely to be deceptive.

California evaluation rules of court do not allow for an evaluator to make recomendations for parties they did not evaluate (in this case, my ex cooperated with the 730 Evaluator, but not the 733 because he was content with the findings of the 730 evaluator) so all the 733 Evaluator could do was to point out the patterns of behavior that could be expected from persons with these types of personality disorder profiles and the potential impact on our child based on his interviewing of the child and collaterals. Nobody is suggesting eliminating visitation or even supervised visitation. Our child is already in counseling to help with her coping, but I'd like to getting some court ordered counseling, and I'm wondering if I should request that weekends be from saturday morning to sunday night to minimize the overnights and possibly to limit extended stays (which usually turn our child into a basket case). I don't think there will be a change in the primary physical, but I'm looking for a parenting plan that has shorter, more frequent visits instead of the longer ones, but I want to make sure it's something a judge would think was reasonable.

Thanks.
My X also tested as NPD...his new wife also tested as HPD...these 2 disorders often end up in relationships as the character defects feed off each other.

In our case the NPD was more damaging than the HPD, and that changed several things in the parenting plan:
#1. Drop off/Pick up is at a public location (so he behaves himself basically- NPDs have no boundaries & he'd be in my house/room/car/trash, etc.)
#2. Visitation had to be painstakingly DETAILED...otherwise he'd debate/argue over every single aspect of timing/dates, etc.
#3. To protect myself from future harassment~ The order stated any future issues would be taken to mediation prior to any further court proceedings. (This decreases the chances of him continuing to litigate-which he loves to do)
#4. He had to undergo therapy with our child to learn how to recognize & respond to our child's needs ('other' people are only extensions of the NPD person- never 'rating' as important as they are themselves.) :rolleyes:
#5. Educate YOURSELF to the features of NPD so you recognize them...and don't get further baited into the dysfunctional cycle they create.
#6. ALL correspondence is in writing (email or letter) because NPD causes distortion in what they 'think' they said/did and what they actually said or did.

Good Luck.
 
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psfunkytek

Guest
Thanks for the response.

casa said:
My X also tested as NPD...his new wife also tested as HPD...these 2 disorders often end up in relationships as the character defects feed off each other.

In our case the NPD was more damaging than the HPD, and that changed several things in the parenting plan:
#1. Drop off/Pick up is at a public location (so he behaves himself basically- NPDs have no boundaries & he'd be in my house/room/car/trash, etc.)
#2. Visitation had to be painstakingly DETAILED...otherwise he'd debate/argue over every single aspect of timing/dates, etc.
#3. To protect myself from future harassment~ The order stated any future issues would be taken to mediation prior to any further court proceedings. (This decreases the chances of him continuing to litigate-which he loves to do)
#4. He had to undergo therapy with our child to learn how to recognize & respond to our child's needs ('other' people are only extensions of the NPD person- never 'rating' as important as they are themselves.) :rolleyes:
#5. Educate YOURSELF to the features of NPD so you recognize them...and don't get further baited into the dysfunctional cycle they create.
#6. ALL correspondence is in writing (email or letter) because NPD causes distortion in what they 'think' they said/did and what they actually said or did.

Good Luck.
MY GOD! The similarities in your ex and mine are almost frightening. When I first heard he was NPD, I was up all night reading about the symptoms and when I read your post, I though I was reading about my own situation. Because of his and her behavior, our transfers are at a public place already. He also tries to twist every detail of the court order to be whatever he wants. As for commuincations, they are mostly e-mail and that was basically how he was diagnosed, because the statements he made were all so distorted.

Thank you very much for your post, it's probably one of the MOST helpful I've ever gotten on this forum. It actually answers my question. It's absoultely true, he cannot respond to our child's needs and feelings and so it sounds like the most importing thing I need to push for is the family counseling and just to make sure that the court order covers every single detail.

Thanks again.
 

casa

Senior Member
psfunkytek said:
MY GOD! The similarities in your ex and mine are almost frightening. When I first heard he was NPD, I was up all night reading about the symptoms and when I read your post, I though I was reading about my own situation. Because of his and her behavior, our transfers are at a public place already. He also tries to twist every detail of the court order to be whatever he wants. As for commuincations, they are mostly e-mail and that was basically how he was diagnosed, because the statements he made were all so distorted.

Thank you very much for your post, it's probably one of the MOST helpful I've ever gotten on this forum. It actually answers my question. It's absoultely true, he cannot respond to our child's needs and feelings and so it sounds like the most importing thing I need to push for is the family counseling and just to make sure that the court order covers every single detail.

Thanks again.
Another issue that was added was clothing~ He was ordered to maintain his own set of clothing for our child at his house....because that too, was a huge ongoing debate:rolleyes:
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
casa said:
Another issue that was added was clothing~ He was ordered to maintain his own set of clothing for our child at his house....because that too, was a huge ongoing debate:rolleyes:
Just a bit of a slightly off-topic anecdote...but I was involved in a case where a grandparent with visitation was ordered to provide their own clothing...because they constantly dragged the parents into court for contempt over clothing. (This was pre-Troxel)

Anyway...after the grandmother was ordered to provide her own (and she was also ordered to provide transportation both ways) she would literally undress the child on the parent's front porch...put the child into HER clothing, and then when she brought the child back home she would undress him again and send him into the house naked, unless the parents left clothing on the front porch.

Talk about dysfunctional...LOL...Troxel got rid of her thank goodness.
 

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