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Can I make him change his work schedule?

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M

mom-and-dad-in1

Guest
What is the name of your state? VA

I have never been married to my 8 year old son’s father. We have never lived together in our son’s lifetime. He is on the birth certificate. I even let our son have his father’s last name in hopes that it would encourage parental involvement on his part. This summer, I filed for custody, support, and visitation because I finally accepted that I am truly a single PARENT. He has no interest in helping make parental decisions, although he has no problem criticizing the decisions I make. He has no interest in parent-teacher conferences or school events… and went as far as stating recently (in front of our son) that there was no point in him knowing or son’s teacher’s name. In the past 3 years, my son has participated in 3 seasons of Little League Baseball, 2 seasons of Youth Soccer, 1 season of Youth Basketball, and 1 season of Ralleyball (Youth Tennis). I have only been able to get his father to attend 3 games total.

For the past four years, my son sees his father one afternoon a week on average, from about 6:30 ‘til 9. I never know for sure that he is coming until sometime after lunch that very day. Either way, I need to leave work at the usual time because he refuses to arrange to leave work 15 MINUTES early with his boss. (I could really use that time to work late sometimes to make up for times I need to leave early for doctor’s appointments, school events, practices, games, etc.) He is not interested in weekend visitation because, frankly (I can say this because my son is not listening) a kid cramps his weekend lifestyle.

QUESTION: Mediation is set in a couple weeks. How far can I go on the visitation issue? Can I make him adjust his work schedule to spend a full 3 hours with his son?
 


tigger22472

Senior Member
No.. visitation is a right, not an obligation. You can't make him see his son at all and you can't make him change ANY work hours. As far as visitation goes NO ONE can MAKE him do anything. You're better off leaving well enough alone. It might not seem like a lot of time that he is spending with his son but you bet your behind it's a lot more then some kids. Any interference you have with this will only make you look bad, not good.. not only to the judge, the mediator, your son's father, but also your son.
 
M

mom-and-dad-in1

Guest
I have always allowed his father to see him when he wanted. In fact, I have spent a great deal of energy BEGGING him to see him more and take an active interest/involvement in our son's life.

There has to be some way to protect myself from being taken advantage of / for granted by him ???? I carry the load alone... is their no way the law can help me?

As far as my son goes... it is his idea to see his father less (as a consequence to his father for not being reliable). It is a shame, but at 8 years old, he already knows that his father is not someone he can count on. Not only am I having him see his counsellor at school, but I am paying for counselling as well. My worst fear has always been that dad would break son's heart. I am mortified that the day has already come and gone. It is heartbreaking to hear an 8 year old speak of his father with such emotional detachment. THE CURRENT ARRANGEMENT DOES NOT WORK FOR HI EITHER.
 

tigger22472

Senior Member
Sorry, believe me.. I know what it feels like to see your child hurting when it seems the other parent has a disintrest but there is ABSOLUTELY nothing you can do legally about visitation. It goes with the old saying "you can lead a horse to water..." .

Take some well meaning advice... don't push dad. Don't hold his hand. It's dad's obligation to utilize his visitation... it's not your job to make sure he does it. Honestly, in my opinion the more you push for dad to see him the more harm you're doing. Your child already sees how he his. Let dad dig his own grave. You just be there to wipe the tears and pick up the pieces. It may sound harsh but the sooner you do that the better off everyone is. Yes your son will be heartbroken but eventually it does heal. If you keep pushing dad to see him then you're opening for more opportunity for your son to be hurt. If dad is truely disinterested then his visits will become less and less frequent and your child will see and understand that.

I was in your spot. I did whatever it took to make sure my ex could have a relationship with my boys. I did all the transportation.. I set up all the times. I remember back in 2000 he was supposed to get them for a month in the summer. I was packing them and my then 9 year old said "why are you packing us? You know he's not coming". I explained that he said that he was and that I had to have them ready. Of course at 9 he was right. The ex had every excuse in the book not to get them at the last minute. In late 2000 he saw them every other weekend for a while but only because I provided transportation and his sister took care of them on his visits. When she could no longer do it he cut off contact again. My children last saw their bio-father in July of 2001 and last spoke to him in April of 2002. We went through hell in back. I had to answer "why doesn't he love me?" more then a million times it seems. I had to hear when he did talk to them how he'd told them it was my fault he didnt' see them. Eventually he just stopped. He saw he wasn't getting anywhere with his lies.

You're only job is to be there for your son and pick up the pieces and reassure him that you will always be there for him but as far as a legal standpoint there's nothing you can do.
 
M

mom-and-dad-in1

Guest
hmmm, nothing I wanted to hear, but pretty much what I expected. Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

At the very least, isn't there anything I can do to prevent him from keeping us hanging til the last minute every week?

What's the point of a visitation agreement in the first place?

I'm asking for full custody with liberal visitation... what are MY rights? What are MY SON'S rights? Do things always have to be on "dad's" terms?
 

tigger22472

Senior Member
DO NOT ask for liberal visitation...

You need to have a SET schedule. Generally it's EOW and one night a week for X amount of hours. Liberal visitation sounds all nice and sweet but trust me it's not fun for anyone, CP or NCP's alike have problems with this. If he's given liberal visitation this mean he can call whenever at the last minute and unless you have a good reason you'd have to provide your son for visitation. By what you have said about him liberal visitation will only put you and your son through more crap then you need to for years to come. Set it up where there is SET visitation and remember it's HIS obligation to utilize it. The BEST you could do is try to have it put in the order that you are given 24 hour notice of him planning to utilize his visitation. That COULD save you especially if he's given weekend visitation.. doesn't use it for a while then calls you late on a Friday afternoon planning to have visitation. I'm not sure how it works for the weekday visit.. but likely it's the same. There's a difference in bending over backwards and rolling over.

You asked if everything has to be on dad's terms... the funny thing is that many CP's feel that and many NCP's feel that everything is on the CP's terms... You would have to have your son available when it's dad's visiation times.. period.. that's why I suggested the 24 hour thing. Dad has the right to have visitation and as long as he says he wants it and your son is under 18 then he has to go. Of course there are circumstances that can change it but to write that out would take forever :) My advice is to play the game for a while cuz either way it will probably get better. Either dad will eventually step up to the plate and be a dad or he will fade away... but the choice will always be his.
 
M

mom-and-dad-in1

Guest
It took me awhile to figure out what EOW meant. He has no interest in that, and frankly that's okay with me (not a good scene at his place). I offered him an 8 hour chunck on saturday or sunday and he didn't bite on that either.

I have no idea what to expect from him when we sit down to work this out. But one thing I do feel confident about... he will not respond well to being told when he HAS to see his son or committing to a PERMANENT day and time.

The Custody and Child Support issues are no brainers, but Visitation is a difficult one for me. I don't know what to ask for. (It's not like it's gonna make any difference anyway.) I agree about having a set time (for the sake of myself and my son), but I can't see his father consenting to have it written in stone for the next 10 years. Or even the next 10 months. So in legal terms, if "liberal visitation" isn't going to protect us and he won't sign up for set times, what am I left with?

I thought "liberal visitation" simply meant that the call was mine.
 

tigger22472

Senior Member
Here's how liberal visitation hurts both you AND him(if he were an active parent)

If he tells you he wants to see your son and you say NO.. you have to have a good reason. If he calls every other week at 4PM and says he wants to see him at 5 and you have plans or whatever and say no then technically you are denying visitation. Now, he can take you to court for violation and the judge can put you in contempt. So in essence your life can be turned over in a seconds notice. The bottom line is he doesn't have to agree to anything.. the judge is the one that decides in the end and the judge WILL give him set times if you don't use the words "liberal visitation'..LOL He doesn't have to like it. It's not his JOB to like it. Now, I'm not saying be a complete B*tch.. I mean ok.. if in the court order it says Wednesday and his job changes and he can't do Wednesdays.. pick another day, if he gives you crap tell him to change it in the court. If every so often he wants to change the day of the week.. ok. that's reasonable too.

To make things easier with the mediator ask her/him what they suggest as far as a good visitation schedule. Explain that you don't want to keep your son away from him but you also want some consistancy in his life. I've never dealt with a mediator before so I'm not sure if they will speak to you separately or not. Hopefully they will. When with him/her privately express your concerns. For that matter express your concern in front of him with the mediator. The worse that can happen is he will get ticked off.. show the mediator what he really thinks and hurt his own case. (if the mediator suggests liberal visitation.. don't take it..LOL) More then likely he's causing this fuss now because you filed for child support. Some parents are like that. He'll either get over it and grow up and act like a parent or he won't. (I also might add that after a time if he starts taking responsibility it's never a bad thing to allow more visiting time but it's also better to stay on the safe side with court orders).
 
M

mom-and-dad-in1

Guest
wow... I had no idea... the last thing I want is to make myself any more of a door mat.

Here's a question for ya: since I know he is going to want to stick to a week day. My sister's daughter sees her father every wednesday from a set time to a set time (in addition to EOW). If he is late with picking up or dropping off, or doesn't show without notice, he sacrifices his next visit. So I could do something like that, right?

On the one end, I am tired of him bringing our son home at or after 9pm (his bed time). By the time I get him to bed... well, you know. As it is, he doesn't want to get him until 6:30, so 8:30 only gives them 2 hours. He may decide 2 hours is enough as far as he's concerned. And as little as it may be, it satisfies "set visitation", right?
 

tigger22472

Senior Member
mom-and-dad-in1 said:
Here's a question for ya: since I know he is going to want to stick to a week day. My sister's daughter sees her father every wednesday from a set time to a set time (in addition to EOW). If he is late with picking up or dropping off, or doesn't show without notice, he sacrifices his next visit. So I could do something like that, right?
Is it written in your sister's order that way? AND make sure before you answer that you know that for sure because I have never ever heard of that actually being put into an order as far as sacrificing a visit for being late. I guess it's possible but I would suspect that if it IS in the order that it's a modified order and dad's already demonstrated this often. Also, you go in there asking to do that isn't going to make you look very cooperative.

mom-and-dad-in1 said:
On the one end, I am tired of him bringing our son home at or after 9pm (his bed time). By the time I get him to bed... well, you know. As it is, he doesn't want to get him until 6:30, so 8:30 only gives them 2 hours. He may decide 2 hours is enough as far as he's concerned. And as little as it may be, it satisfies "set visitation", right?
9 is generally going to be the latest for visitation but you don't want to use the argument that you're using. A judge can tell you that your son getting to bed a little bit later one night a week wont' hurt him. In the eyes of the court as should be in the eyes of all parents the relationship with the other parent should be more important.

I know how you feel about your son's dad, really I do. I know what little time he spends with him doesn't seem to be enough but at this point he does show. At least he does that, like I said many children don't even get that so as long as he's taking even that little bit of time, encourage it. You don't have to roll over and play dead and do EVERYTHING his way because sometimes they do things JUST to irritate you but do what you can to help the relationship along. I always held out hope that sooner or later my kids' dad would see what he was doing to them and step up to the plate. He never did but that doesn't mean your son's dad won't.
 

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