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Changing holidays

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krpayne87

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

When my Ex and I divorced he was a Jehovah’s Witness and didn’t celebrate holidays so he gave me ALL holidays with our daughter. He is remarried now and has decided to celebrate holidays now. He has asked me if we can start alternating holidays. Obviously this is something I don’t want to have to give up as my daughter is only 4, but I know I don’t really have a choice. My question is though, if he is the one who wants to make the changes, should he have to cover the legal fees to do the changes?
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

When my Ex and I divorced he was a Jehovah’s Witness and didn’t celebrate holidays so he gave me ALL holidays with our daughter. He is remarried now and has decided to celebrate holidays now. He has asked me if we can start alternating holidays. Obviously this is something I don’t want to have to give up as my daughter is only 4, but I know I don’t really have a choice. My question is though, if he is the one who wants to make the changes, should he have to cover the legal fees to do the changes?
Why do you have to go to court?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

When my Ex and I divorced he was a Jehovah’s Witness and didn’t celebrate holidays so he gave me ALL holidays with our daughter. He is remarried now and has decided to celebrate holidays now. He has asked me if we can start alternating holidays. Obviously this is something I don’t want to have to give up as my daughter is only 4, but I know I don’t really have a choice. My question is though, if he is the one who wants to make the changes, should he have to cover the legal fees to do the changes?
If he is the one who wants changes, he is the one who is obligated to take it to court to ask for modification. You are not required to agree. You can let the judge decide.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
If he is the one who wants changes, he is the one who is obligated to take it to court to ask for modification. You are not required to agree. You can let the judge decide.
They don't need a judge or court. Mom & Dad can agree to a new and fair split of holidays, write it, and submit to their court as an agreement. Easy and grown-up.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
They don't need a judge or court. Mom & Dad can agree to a new and fair split of holidays, write it, and submit to their court as an agreement. Easy and grown-up.
If they actually agreed, then I would agree with you. However, they do not. Now, if dad's new wife is not a JW and they truly want to CELEBRATE holidays they maybe mom should consider that. However if dad's new wife is JW then they don't want holidays in order to celebrate them. They want holidays in order to reduce the number of holidays that the child celebrates.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
Why are you not agreeable to your child spending some holidays with her father? Your statement about not wanting to "give up" holidays is very selfish. Think of what's best for your child.

Even when Dad didn't celebrate the holidays, that was no reason for the child to miss seeing her father on those days.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Why did you delete the other thread you had? Because quite frankly you had another thread with more history of this situation and now you only have the two posts you have on this thread. Explain yourself.
 

CJane

Senior Member
Why are you not agreeable to your child spending some holidays with her father? Your statement about not wanting to "give up" holidays is very selfish. Think of what's best for your child.

Even when Dad didn't celebrate the holidays, that was no reason for the child to miss seeing her father on those days.
Except Dad didn't *want those holidays/days with the child. In the original decree, he GAVE MOM the holidays. But, it's selfish of HER to want to maintain status quo, or not give him days he didn't want???
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Why are you not agreeable to your child spending some holidays with her father? Your statement about not wanting to "give up" holidays is very selfish. Think of what's best for your child.

Even when Dad didn't celebrate the holidays, that was no reason for the child to miss seeing her father on those days.
Ok, so you are saying that the child should miss out on celebrating a holiday in order to spend time with a dad who will not celebrate the holiday? That is silly. If we are talking about say 6 holidays a year, dad could be given six extra days a year without taking celebrating the holidays away from the children, and accomplish the same result.

I am really serious here single317dad...JWs do not celebrate holidays AT ALL...and they are very serious about it. Judges commonly order that Christians get Christian holidays and Jewish parents get Jewish holidays in similar situations...which is ultimately fair and just. There is no reason to give secular or religious holidays to JW parents since they do not celebrate ANY holidays. By all means give dad alternate time off from school to make up for it, but its absolutely ridiculous to give him any holidays that he is actually not going to celebrate with the children.

Again, if his new wife is not JW and he actually intends to celebrate those holidays then that is a different story. Heck, give him the bulk of Christmas break if you want to but not Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve or New Years Day. Give him every Spring break, but not Easter. Don't give him the children's birthdays because he will ignore that its their birthday, give him an extra weekend in the summer but not the 4th of July. Memorial Day and Labor Day might not be a big deal if mom's family doesn't do anything special on those days, but they might also be a big deal if they do.

For all we know dad could have already gotten some concessions for not taking holidays. Don't have a knee jerk reaction because you think that somehow dad is losing something he is not going to celebrate with the children anyway. By all means suggest that he be given something in exchange if he is not already receiving something in exchange, but lets not go overboard here.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
Ok, so you are saying that the child should miss out on celebrating a holiday in order to spend time with a dad who will not celebrate the holiday? That is silly. If we are talking about say 6 holidays a year, dad could be given six extra days a year without taking celebrating the holidays away from the children, and accomplish the same result.

I am really serious here single317dad...JWs do not celebrate holidays AT ALL...and they are very serious about it. Judges commonly order that Christians get Christian holidays and Jewish parents get Jewish holidays in similar situations...which is ultimately fair and just. There is no reason to give secular or religious holidays to JW parents since they do not celebrate ANY holidays. By all means give dad alternate time off from school to make up for it, but its absolutely ridiculous to give him any holidays that he is actually not going to celebrate with the children.

Again, if his new wife is not JW and he actually intends to celebrate those holidays then that is a different story. Heck, give him the bulk of Christmas break if you want to but not Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve or New Years Day. Give him every Spring break, but not Easter. Don't give him the children's birthdays because he will ignore that its their birthday, give him an extra weekend in the summer but not the 4th of July. Memorial Day and Labor Day might not be a big deal if mom's family doesn't do anything special on those days, but they might also be a big deal if they do.

For all we know dad could have already gotten some concessions for not taking holidays. Don't have a knee jerk reaction because you think that somehow dad is losing something he is not going to celebrate with the children anyway. By all means suggest that he be given something in exchange if he is not already receiving something in exchange, but lets not go overboard here.
I know some JWs, and I'm aware of what they believe. I also know Mormons and Scientologists and Adventists. My opinion(s) on those belief systems notwithstanding, I have a couple of reasons for my answer.

1) A child's quality time with her parents should outweigh any holiday celebrations. There's nothing inherently special about any day on the calendar; they're all the same as the one before and the one after. The child will conveniently be out of school on those days in dispute. OP also stated in her first post that Dad has decided to start celebrating holidays now, so all your positing about the child missing out on holidays is moot.

2) Dad has the right to expose the child to his religious beliefs, the same as those Christian and Jewish parents you mentioned. That Mom and her family are accustomed to the child being at every holiday and to do otherwise would just break their hearts is of no consequence. What is of great consequence, however, is that Dad initially agreed to the current arrangement and may find it difficult to undo his mistake.

If they actually agreed, then I would agree with you. However, they do not. Now, if dad's new wife is not a JW and they truly want to CELEBRATE holidays they maybe mom should consider that. However if dad's new wife is JW then they don't want holidays in order to celebrate them. They want holidays in order to reduce the number of holidays that the child celebrates.
There's a very high probability that either Dad and Stepmom are both JW or they are both not JW. JWs do not approve of mixed-faith marriages and are very liberal with the excommunication stick.

Except Dad didn't *want those holidays/days with the child. In the original decree, he GAVE MOM the holidays. But, it's selfish of HER to want to maintain status quo, or not give him days he didn't want???
In response to CJane's comment, my statement that OP sounded "selfish" related to her saying "I don't want to give that up" as if this is all about her instead of the child.

Seriously, read the OP again. It reads to me like a parent who is upset at how a new arrangement will affect them, with no thought of the child at all.
 
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I'mTheFather

Senior Member
Why did you delete the other thread you had? Because quite frankly you had another thread with more history of this situation and now you only have the two posts you have on this thread. Explain yourself.
If anyone is interested, the cached page of the other thread is easily found on google.

I know some JWs, and I'm aware of what they believe. I also know Mormons and Scientologists and Adventists. My opinion(s) on those belief systems notwithstanding, I have a couple of reasons for my answer.

1) A child's quality time with her parents should outweigh any holiday celebrations. There's nothing inherently special about any day on the calendar; they're all the same as the one before and the one after. The child will conveniently be out of school on those days in dispute. OP also stated in her first post that Dad has decided to start celebrating holidays now, so all your positing about the child missing out on holidays is moot.

2) Dad has the right to expose the child to his religious beliefs, the same as those Christian and Jewish parents you mentioned. That Mom and her family are accustomed to the child being at every holiday and to do otherwise would just break their hearts is of no consequence. What is of great consequence, however, is that Dad initially agreed to the current arrangement and may find it difficult to undo his mistake.



There's a very high probability that either Dad and Stepmom are both JW or they are both not JW. JWs do not approve of mixed-faith marriages and are very liberal with the excommunication stick.



In response to CJane's comment, my statement that OP sounded "selfish" related to her saying "I don't want to give that up" as if this is all about her instead of the child.

Seriously, read the OP again. It reads to me like a parent who is upset at how a new arrangement will affect them, with no thought of the child at all.
Singledad, very well said.
 

tuffbrk

Senior Member
Reality? He didn't want the days to such a degree that he had it written into the agreement. Now he got married and wants to disrupt the existing schedule because... he gave up his faith? Really? What faith is he practicing now? If the current marriage falls apart is he going to want to change it again? Should your child's schedule be changed at Dad's every whim?!

So I'd say no, that doesn't work for me right now. Once you all settle in and actually celebrate some holidays we can reconvene. If it is all about the new wife, with visions of rainbows and unicorns at the Beav's house, it may just be dropped. However, if he's seriously considered the matter and deems it to be important, he will file.

Then take it from there...
 

CJane

Senior Member
Reality? He didn't want the days to such a degree that he had it written into the agreement. Now he got married and wants to disrupt the existing schedule because... he gave up his faith? Really? What faith is he practicing now? If the current marriage falls apart is he going to want to change it again? Should your child's schedule be changed at Dad's every whim?!

So I'd say no, that doesn't work for me right now. Once you all settle in and actually celebrate some holidays we can reconvene. If it is all about the new wife, with visions of rainbows and unicorns at the Beav's house, it may just be dropped. However, if he's seriously considered the matter and deems it to be important, he will file.

Then take it from there...
Exactly. Mom's a terrible person because Dad DIDN'T WANT THE HOLIDAYS, and now he does and she's balking.

And, if holidays are irrelevant to the degree that singledad is suggesting, and can be celebrated whenever, Dad should be perfectly happy with 6 or 7 random days throughout the year that he can just name "Christmas" or "Easter" or "Birthday", and celebrate then, right?
 

single317dad

Senior Member
Exactly. Mom's a terrible person because Dad DIDN'T WANT THE HOLIDAYS, and now he does and she's balking.

And, if holidays are irrelevant to the degree that singledad is suggesting, and can be celebrated whenever, Dad should be perfectly happy with 6 or 7 random days throughout the year that he can just name "Christmas" or "Easter" or "Birthday", and celebrate then, right?
What does the child gain by Mom "standing her ground" and refusing to negotiate with Dad?
 
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