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Children kidnapped by mother out of US, court order in place, the DA is harassing

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foreversunny38

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

The court has given me (the father) full legal and physical custody of children. These children have been abducted/kidnapped/taken out of county to another country, India by mother by deception. The court has also ordered the mother to return children immediately to USA.

Court has ordered the DA of the Child Abduction Unit of the country to retreive children and help me get back children in the US. The children are US citizen.

Problem:

Despite my repeated calls, written letters and in person meeting with DA, she refuses to help me. On the contrary, she is mentally harassing by dissuading me to not to file any action against kidnapping parent- the mother, in this case, my wife- a woman. The DA is highly gender biased and discriminatory against me being father and-a man, she shows clear contempt for men when I interact with her, she is deliberately siding in favor of a woman- the mother who has kidnapped children out of country by deception. The DA is playing eye wash, threatens me that she will get court order changed if I will take any further leagal against my wife. At the begining before I myself filed the court case for custody, the DA harassed me over phone so much that she made my life miserable. The DA has not even informed the kidnapping mother to hand over the children to USA despite coourt asking her, or informed the mother of the court judgement. She is disobeying the court order. Only upon court order in favor or me, she opened a case of child abduction, but she does not want to take any action against a woman- as abductor parent.

The court had given judgement/order on October 30, 2008.

What are my options-

1) Can I file contempt of court order against DA, and how?

2) How can I get court order enforced, whos hould be the party?

3) Against who I can file contempt case (is it against abducting mother, or DA office, or both?), or any legal case for not doing anything to get US children back to US?

4) Can I file motion asking court to order American embassy in India to help retreive children back to the US?

5) How can I get arrest warrant issued against abductor mother, the DA is harassing me on asking for this? The police saus that since I have court orders, the DA can issue arrest warrant immediately, but DA refuses to do so?

6) Can I ask the court to issue the arrest warrant against the abductor mother, and how should I do it?

7) Can I ask for arrest warrant against DA for not helping me, for harassing me in gender discriminatory/biased manner, and for not complying court order to retreive children,

7) The DA is harassing me to the extent that she is not allowing me to seek help from "self-help" center managed by courts in California where family law facilitators help prepare and file the case. When I reach these centers, the "self-help" centers refuse to let me enter the office or simply refuse to help me on my case.

Please help and advise me.

Thank you in advance.
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
The problems you are having here are far beyond the expertise of a message board, even one (as wonderful as it is) such as this.

Very simply the DA does not carry any blame or responsibility for your situation. If the inaction of the DA is your focus here frankly you're blaming the wrong person. Your focus needs to be elsewhere....and you MUST understand that.

So, addressing the actual custodial issues of your situation:

The US Embassy can do nothing here - India is unlikely to relinquish jurisdiction in this matter to begin with and even if that may be overcome India may not recognize any custody order made by a foreign entity. India is NOT a signatory of the Hague Convention (which affords the residents of some countries many forms of relief in terms of custody, family and/or familial abduction matters - this is NOT good for you) .

Please read this: International Parental Child Abduction India

You absolutely need to speak with an attorney; probably one in India and preferably one who is familiar not just with family law but with International Custody issues. Realistically you could have a US court order signed by the President himself - and still India is under absolutely NO obligation to comply with that order.

THIS needs to be your focus. NOT the perceived ineptness of the DA.
 
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Proserpina

Senior Member
And curiosity begs the question - how exactly are you being harassed? The DA is probably painfully aware that nothing she can do can really help you.

She could order your ex to be arrested and jailed immediately - but it won't happen.

As far as the gender-bias accusations go you're going to need to prove these things - but even if you can, how exactly is this going to help you retrieve your child?
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
And curiosity begs the question - how exactly are you being harassed? The DA is probably painfully aware that nothing she can do can really help you.

She could order your ex to be arrested and jailed immediately - but it won't happen.

As far as the gender-bias accusations go you're going to need to prove these things - but even if you can, how exactly is this going to help you retrieve your child?
Just to make it crystal clear, the DA has absolutely no authority whatsoever regarding anyone residing in India. The only way that the DA could push forward with anything would be for the DA to convince his/her counterpart in India to arrest and extradite mom to the US...which is NOT going to happen.

The arrest and extradition of mom would NOT bring the children back to the US, only mom.

The children are Indian citizens as well as US citizens. What you are going to have to do is take your case to the courts in India, and try to get a custody ruling there allowing you to return to the US with the children.

I am truly sorry this has happened. However the reality of things is that the DA can do nothing to help you.
 

profmum

Senior Member
The problems you are having here are far beyond the expertise of a message board, even one (as wonderful as it is) such as this.

Very simply the DA does not carry any blame or responsibility for your situation. If the inaction of the DA is your focus here frankly you're blaming the wrong person. Your focus needs to be elsewhere....and you MUST understand that.

So, addressing the actual custodial issues of your situation:

The US Embassy can do nothing here - India is unlikely to relinquish jurisdiction in this matter to begin with and even if that may be overcome India may not recognize any custody order made by a foreign entity. India is NOT a signatory of the Hague Convention (which affords the residents of some countries many forms of relief in terms of custody, family and/or familial abduction matters - this is NOT good for you) .

Please read this: International Parental Child Abduction India

You absolutely need to speak with an attorney; probably one in India and preferably one who is familiar not just with family law but with International Custody issues. Realistically you could have a US court order signed by the President himself - and still India is under absolutely NO obligation to comply with that order.

THIS needs to be your focus. NOT the perceived ineptness of the DA.

This is the best advice you can get, your only hope is to ask the Indian courts to recognize US jurisdiction in this case. This process can take a while and the chances of the Indian courts (you will most likely have to fight this all the way to the Indiam Supreme Court) letting you take the kids back to the US is slim. In the interim you can petition the courts to allow you to have some access (webcams, weekly phone calls etc) with the kids. The Indian courts in larger cities (Mumbai, Delhi) have been pretty generous with this option. Which city are they in?

There is nothing more the US will do or can do. The children are not Indian citizens (dual citizenship does not exist yet) but that does not make a difference to the Indian courts if Mum is an Indian citizen or a US citizen with PIO (person of Indian origin status). An arrest warrant from the DA will not be enforced by Indian police.

This is a terrible situation you are in..
 

Isis1

Senior Member
one other issue that stood out. you stated once you walk in to self help centers, the refuse to let you enter.

why? something tells me, you are being either loud, obnoxious, or rude. maybe all three.

people are helpful when you are polite. i get the urgency, i get the hysteria. but you cannot help yourself if you are demanding.

like said, the DA can do nothing for you. the self help centers, can't do anything for you. you already have a court order for custody in the US. that court order does not work in India. you need India to work with you now, the US already did their part.
 

foreversunny38

Junior Member
Issue of refusal by selfhelp center

Dear All:

First of all, I am very grateful and thankful to all of you for giving me your valuable advice in a very complicated matter of children's kidnapping.

"The issue of self-help center for not letting me seek help and guidance in determining which forms to fill out and what information to furnish".

Your interpretation that I was being either loud, obnoxious, or rude, or all the three.

This was not true.

The reason which came to my understanding that the office clerk, assistant and the family law facilitator were denying me help on my case on the interference and being told by the DA herself. During that time I was being persistently dissuaded and continuously being told by self-help center personnel and the DA that I can not file any case against my wife, I should not file such a case because court will not entertain such a case even though, they (the self-help facilitators) can not speak out for the court itself without any judicial authority.

But when I prepared my case on my own with the help from information on internet, the DA went to the extent that she contacted the court clerk's office to get my forms rejected on some technical ground, which she got rejected though, there were no technical flaws. It was only by some senior clerk supervisor who understood the matter, declared that there is not technical flaw and had ordered it to be filed and be accepted in the office for the court to review.

One more information in this series: The judge himself asked me to go to the DA to implement his order and take DA's help further. The DA was not aware that my case was accepted by court and I have got a judgment in my favor. As soon as the DA came to know that I was able to file the case and got the judgment, she was so furious, yelled and threatened me in her office as if I did a crime by going to the court for children. She threatened that she will get the judge changed on my case, the judge does not know how to give judgment, and she will get the order modified and altered anyhow by some other means. This shows the malicious intention of DA and her deliberate attempt in stopping me from filing the case against my wife. This also shows that the DA took it as if the case was against her personally, and not against my wife.

I was no where being either loud, obnoxious, or rude because I was afraid that DA can get me arrested for any excuse the way she had terrified me. I was simply trying to seek help without any misbehavior with anyone. She had portrayed in her conversation with me that men are always evil. Certainly, such an attitude from a person at DA level will reflect that she was intentionally being against man and she viewed me too in the same light stopping me to seek help from the court.

Thank you, again.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
so, what's your goal then? to get your children back? or to have the DA suffer consequences?

you need an Indian court to proceed at this point. the DA isn't going to personally go get your children for you.
 

foreversunny38

Junior Member
File case in India and seek custody there

one other issue that stood out. you stated once you walk in to self help centers, the refuse to let you enter.

Dear Isabella Soriano:

Thanks for expressing your presumptions. May I please know further from your advise-

"The court order has declared that US court has jurisdiction over children and California is their natural place of living."

My concern is that if I file case in India for recognition of US court order and for the custody of children, will it amount that I am intentionally discarding US jurisdiction over US citizen children despite US court order, and willfully accepting and subjecting to Indian court jurisdiction over children. Will such a move would prove to be suicidal or fatal for me for any action by US court in future in regards to these children?

I will appreciate any clarification on it.

Thank you.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
so, what's your goal then? to get your children back? or to have the DA suffer consequences?

you need an Indian court to proceed at this point. the DA isn't going to personally go get your children for you.
If only because the DA obviously knows that India just isn't going to play ball.

OP, you need to understand this. At the moment India is where your exwife and children are living and India will retain jurisdiction until and unless their courts decide otherwise.

India does NOT consider international parental abduction a crime. See the problem here?

Did you read the information from the site I posted earlier?

India is not a signatory of the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Parental Abduction; therefore, left-behind parents must rely on other avenues to recover their children from India. Once a child has been abducted to India, remedies are very few. India does not consider international parental child abduction a crime, and the Indian courts rarely recognize U.S. custody orders, preferring to exert their own jurisdiction in rulings that tend to favor the parent who wants to keep the child in India.
From: International Parental Child Abduction India

There is also a link on that page to attorneys in India - that's what you need to be working on.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
My concern is that if I file case in India for recognition of US court order and for the custody of children, will it amount that I am intentionally discarding US jurisdiction over US citizen children despite US court order, and willfully accepting and subjecting to Indian court jurisdiction over children.
Unfortunately you don't really have much choice - it will need to go through the Indian court system and by definition this confirms India's jurisdiction.

Will such a move would prove to be suicidal or fatal for me for any action by US court in future in regards to these children?
Again you don't have much choice - if you want to get them back (and I'm incredibly sorry that it is this way) you're going to have to follow the rules in India. If you do manage to get the children back here the US will (generally) once again claim jurisdiction.
 

profmum

Senior Member
My concern is that if I file case in India for recognition of US court order and for the custody of children, will it amount that I am intentionally discarding US jurisdiction over US citizen children despite US court order, and willfully accepting and subjecting to Indian court jurisdiction over children.

Your petition to the Indian courts should be to recognize US jurisdiction in this case, there is no other legal way to make this happen except by petitioning the Indian courts.

Will such a move would prove to be suicidal or fatal for me for any action by US court in future in regards to these children?

No it will not, HOWEVER, the chances of Indian courts conceeding to US jurisdiction despite your being full custody etc by the US courts is not a slam dunk by any means. You really have to sweeten the pot for money, stop waving all court orders in your face and do your best to get her to agree to some visitation with your kids in India or the US.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
My concern is that if I file case in India for recognition of US court order and for the custody of children, will it amount that I am intentionally discarding US jurisdiction over US citizen children despite US court order, and willfully accepting and subjecting to Indian court jurisdiction over children.

Your petition to the Indian courts should be to recognize US jurisdiction in this case, there is no other legal way to make this happen except by petitioning the Indian courts.

Will such a move would prove to be suicidal or fatal for me for any action by US court in future in regards to these children?

No it will not, HOWEVER, the chances of Indian courts conceeding to US jurisdiction despite your being full custody etc by the US courts is not a slam dunk by any means. You really have to sweeten the pot for money, stop waving all court orders in your face and do your best to get her to agree to some visitation with your kids in India or the US.
I feel really bad for OP - this is a truly horrible, heartbreaking situation and I honestly believe he'll have more chance trying to negotiate with Mom than actually trying to take this to court.

Much as I'd like to think otherwise the chances of getting India to not only relinquish jurisdiction but to then enforce a US custody order are very, very slim - this in itself essentially changes the situation and we go from trying to enforce a current custody order to having to establish custody from scratch which will inevitably be decided according to Indian law.

This is where the the difficulty will increase greatly (like it's not already hard enough :( ), as Mom - who is already in India with the children - will be considered the primary custodian under local law (though technically I suppose - because they were married - both parents may have equal custody until there is a recognized and enforceable court order in place). Many will say that India does tend to favor the mother in these cases to begin with but again that's not OP's biggest problem...the more critical matter as I see it is that India is known to be extremely reluctant to give primary custody to a parent who lives outside of the country. Period. Whether that parent is Mom or Dad.

All we can really do is advise OP to seek counsel in India; the US Consulate cannot help and the DA cannot help here - their hands really are tied.
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
one other issue that stood out. you stated once you walk in to self help centers, the refuse to let you enter.

Dear Isabella Soriano:

Thanks for expressing your presumptions. May I please know further from your advise-

"The court order has declared that US court has jurisdiction over children and California is their natural place of living."

My concern is that if I file case in India for recognition of US court order and for the custody of children, will it amount that I am intentionally discarding US jurisdiction over US citizen children despite US court order, and willfully accepting and subjecting to Indian court jurisdiction over children. Will such a move would prove to be suicidal or fatal for me for any action by US court in future in regards to these children?

I will appreciate any clarification on it.

Thank you.
What everyone is trying to explain to you is that the US courts have no clout or jurisdiction over anyone residing in India. India is also not a signatory to the Hague Convention (which is an international treaty that governs child custody issues) which means that your ONLY recourse is through the Indian courts.

Yes, the US courts claim jurisdiction over your children. Yes, the US courts have made orders regarding your children. However, neither those orders nor the DA you are so angry with can do ANYTHING at all to retrieve your children from India.

Again, your only recourse is through the courts in India. If you want to get the US State Department involved they may be willing to put some pressure on the Indian Government to expedite a court process in India, but again, they can only try to exert some pressure...they cannot force anything to happen.

I am truly sorry that you are dealing with this...but the self help center cannot help you, the DA cannot help you, and the State Department can give you only minimal help. Your only recourse at this point is the Indian Courts.
 

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