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  1. #1
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    Court ordered counseling

    What is the name of your state?Tx
    I'm not sure I really understand how this can happen. The judge ordered my ex and I to go to co parenting counseling/conflict disengagement. The judge ordered the time, place and counselor. I looked into the counselors record and it does not seem that this type of counseling is going to work for the relationship between my ex and myself (He's a narcisstic, grandstanding, pathological liar,sanctimonous and arrogant). Having said that, the counseling sessions are going to cost me over $800 (counselor's office will not work with me on payments)which I absolutly do not have. I am raising my children by myself with very little input from him and I cannot fathom how a judge can or would put me in an even more financially burdensome situation by doing this. Furthermore, I have to take time off work to go to these sessions, creating more financial problems. Meanwhile, my ex is laughing all the way, his new wife is paying all the bills and he has recently become unemployed. I have court on friday and I am not sure what to do! If I do not pay the counselor the money that I don't have, I cannot attend the counseling and I am in contempt! I don't know what to say to the judge, it isn't that I don't want to go, I want to get along with my ex, doubtful as it may be, but I simply have no money for this. I feel like I'm being fined....
  2. #2
    syskjw is offline Member
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    Is the other party having to pay for counsling? May be if you speak to the judge you can go see a pastor at a church for family counsling.
  3. #3
    casa is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatthistime
    What is the name of your state?Tx
    I'm not sure I really understand how this can happen. The judge ordered my ex and I to go to co parenting counseling/conflict disengagement. The judge ordered the time, place and counselor. I looked into the counselors record and it does not seem that this type of counseling is going to work for the relationship between my ex and myself (He's a narcisstic, grandstanding, pathological liar,sanctimonous and arrogant). Having said that, the counseling sessions are going to cost me over $800 (counselor's office will not work with me on payments)which I absolutly do not have. I am raising my children by myself with very little input from him and I cannot fathom how a judge can or would put me in an even more financially burdensome situation by doing this. Furthermore, I have to take time off work to go to these sessions, creating more financial problems. Meanwhile, my ex is laughing all the way, his new wife is paying all the bills and he has recently become unemployed. I have court on friday and I am not sure what to do! If I do not pay the counselor the money that I don't have, I cannot attend the counseling and I am in contempt! I don't know what to say to the judge, it isn't that I don't want to go, I want to get along with my ex, doubtful as it may be, but I simply have no money for this. I feel like I'm being fined....
    I know it's hard financially, can you borrow the money? Is the X ordered to pay for at least 1/2? Have you checked into whether or not your insurance will cover any part of it?

    This type of counseling is very beneficial for divorce/custody situations. If your X is Narcissistic- that will certainly show up. (Trust me! ) A benefit is you will learn ways to deal with him which eliminate him sucking you into his 'games'...and you'll also then have a professional on record (should the records be needed by the court at a later date) to demonstrate what you both are working on and how you were able to handle/approach them.

    This was ordered because apparently there is conflict between the 2 of you and the court is concerned it is affecting your child.
  4. #4
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by casa
    I know it's hard financially, can you borrow the money? Is the X ordered to pay for at least 1/2? Have you checked into whether or not your insurance will cover any part of it?

    This type of counseling is very beneficial for divorce/custody situations. If your X is Narcissistic- that will certainly show up. (Trust me! ) A benefit is you will learn ways to deal with him which eliminate him sucking you into his 'games'...and you'll also then have a professional on record (should the records be needed by the court at a later date) to demonstrate what you both are working on and how you were able to handle/approach them.

    This was ordered because apparently there is conflict between the 2 of you and the court is concerned it is affecting your child.
    Thank you and I understand the benefit..*IF* it works. Yes, there is a conflict but we won't go into that, my concern is that at every turn, he causes me financial difficulty and I am sure he is doing it on purpose, underpaying child support (he figured out the system and keeps himself just out of arrears), taking me back to court for frivalous matters, this expensive counseling when I offered cheaper alternatives, the list goes on. Every time I try my best to trust him, he stabs me in the back. I am going to ask the judge again to have him pay it but I don't think it will happen. I've already sent a letter to his lawyer asking him to and they just laughed at me.
  5. #5
    casa is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatthistime
    Thank you and I understand the benefit..*IF* it works. Yes, there is a conflict but we won't go into that, my concern is that at every turn, he causes me financial difficulty and I am sure he is doing it on purpose, underpaying child support (he figured out the system and keeps himself just out of arrears), taking me back to court for frivalous matters, this expensive counseling when I offered cheaper alternatives, the list goes on. Every time I try my best to trust him, he stabs me in the back. I am going to ask the judge again to have him pay it but I don't think it will happen. I've already sent a letter to his lawyer asking him to and they just laughed at me.
    Have you gone to the courthouse to see if there are any forms to file re; your income? If your income is low enough- sometimes you are allowed alternate dispute resolution counseling or that the X or the courts bear part of the costs. I am unsure as to the way this works in TX particularly, so it would take some research on your part- but at this point I'd suggest exhausting every avenue in order to cooperate while still keep yourself housed & fed.

    Good Luck to you~ I have a nuttyX who is also Narcissistic and I've been in & out of the courts for years now. I can't even list the various filings he's submitted to the court- but have gone through every type of evaluation and counseling and mediation and still....he continues. He too, uses his money as a weapon to manipulate & plays many many games with his income. Remember this is to upset you and punish you for not bowing to his every wish and believing him to be the superior being he is Try your best to eliminate as much emotion as you can & limit your interractions with him to the bare essentials.
  6. #6
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by casa
    Have you gone to the courthouse to see if there are any forms to file re; your income? If your income is low enough- sometimes you are allowed alternate dispute resolution counseling or that the X or the courts bear part of the costs. I am unsure as to the way this works in TX particularly, so it would take some research on your part- but at this point I'd suggest exhausting every avenue in order to cooperate while still keep yourself housed & fed.

    Good Luck to you~ I have a nuttyX who is also Narcissistic and I've been in & out of the courts for years now. I can't even list the various filings he's submitted to the court- but have gone through every type of evaluation and counseling and mediation and still....he continues. He too, uses his money as a weapon to manipulate & plays many many games with his income. Remember this is to upset you and punish you for not bowing to his every wish and believing him to be the superior being he is Try your best to eliminate as much emotion as you can & limit your interractions with him to the bare essentials.
    Thank you for the advice, I will try!
  7. #7
    MtnMoon is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatthistime
    Thank you and I understand the benefit..*IF* it works. Yes, there is a conflict but we won't go into that, my concern is that at every turn, he causes me financial difficulty and I am sure he is doing it on purpose, underpaying child support (he figured out the system and keeps himself just out of arrears), taking me back to court for frivalous matters, this expensive counseling when I offered cheaper alternatives, the list goes on. Every time I try my best to trust him, he stabs me in the back. I am going to ask the judge again to have him pay it but I don't think it will happen. I've already sent a letter to his lawyer asking him to and they just laughed at me.
    It seems you've already decided that co-parenting counseling is not going to work. In doing this, you yourself are setting up the failure. It's called "self-fulling prophecy." Instead of looking at it as a financial burden...perhaps you may look at it as a helpful tool to assist in resolving the conflict which is so evident that the judge may believe it's causing havoc in the child's life. Judges don't usually order counseling as such just to cause a financial burden. If your judge ordered counseling through a specific counselor...then the judge most likely has had positive experiences with that counselor...and trusts the outcome of your counseling will be positive.

    It's really not uncommon when someone is told to consider going to counseling...that person might take offense...or deny that counseling is needed...or say it won't work for whatever reason...or come up with excuses not to go...or try to blame others...the list goes on... Some view going to counseling as an indication that there's something wrong with them...and it may hurt to think that. Why not approach this as a positive learning and growing experience? Instead of setting things up for failure...why not approach this as a way to resolve issues and have a happier life?

    Resisting the judge's wishes for you to get counseling won't fly very well in court. It would be in your best interest to abide by the judge's orders and find the best way of getting into counseling as he/she wants. You might actually see the benefit of counseling if you go into it with the notion that the counselor is there to help in a positive way.

    Once you meet with the counselor you might ask these questions:

    What approach does he/she use? He/she might indicate "cognitive therapy," "behavioral," "person-centered," etc. This will tell you what counseling theory grounds him/her. Ask him/her to explain his/her theory of counseling. You may gain a better understanding of what the counseling experience will provide.

    Where did the counselor receive training? Is he/she certified?

    What experience does the counselor have in dealing with your specific issues?

    What about confidentiality? What is confidential and what will be shared with the court?


    You might look into whether or not your health insurance will assist in covering some of the costs associated with the counseling sessions.

    Counseling may prove to be a very beneficial experience for you; however, you will find that the majority of the work done in the sessions is accomplished by you. So, you see...whether or not it's going to be rewarding is going to depend majorly on you.

    Hope some of this helps!
  8. #8
    Zephyr is offline Senior Member
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    i think OP's concern was more in regards to money, although moon did give very good advice, op you should still try to see if you are eligible for any type of financial offset
  9. #9
    MtnMoon is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WANNACRY
    i think OP's concern was more in regards to money, although moon did give very good advice, op you should still try to see if you are eligible for any type of financial offset
    OP stated she didn't think the counseling was going to work... So, I'm thinking she's already under the impression that it's going to fail. That's why I tried to expand on how changing her perspective to the positive might be beneficial...
  10. #10
    Zephyr is offline Senior Member
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    absolutely, if she has to do it, she might as well try to get the most benefit out of it, could make everything with the ex much easier.
  11. #11
    Ambr is offline Senior Member
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    You might check and see if there are sliding scale counseling services in your area. They are based off of the income of the person attending.

    You could then go back to the court and request a change in the counselor due to financial reasons - be able to show the difference in costs.

    The judge ordered the counseling sessions for a reason and they normally don't like it when their orders are not followed. So not attending the sessions will like end up just ticking the judge off and you don't want that.

    But...MOST judges can understand when the expense is the ONLY reason that you are not able to attend. By showing that you are willing.....locating the new counselor.....you might pull it off.
  12. #12
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnMoon
    It seems you've already decided that co-parenting counseling is not going to work. In doing this, you yourself are setting up the failure. It's called "self-fulling prophecy." Instead of looking at it as a financial burden...perhaps you may look at it as a helpful tool to assist in resolving the conflict which is so evident that the judge may believe it's causing havoc in the child's life. Judges don't usually order counseling as such just to cause a financial burden. If your judge ordered counseling through a specific counselor...then the judge most likely has had positive experiences with that counselor...and trusts the outcome of your counseling will be positive.

    It's really not uncommon when someone is told to consider going to counseling...that person might take offense...or deny that counseling is needed...or say it won't work for whatever reason...or come up with excuses not to go...or try to blame others...the list goes on... Some view going to counseling as an indication that there's something wrong with them...and it may hurt to think that. Why not approach this as a positive learning and growing experience? Instead of setting things up for failure...why not approach this as a way to resolve issues and have a happier life?

    Resisting the judge's wishes for you to get counseling won't fly very well in court. It would be in your best interest to abide by the judge's orders and find the best way of getting into counseling as he/she wants. You might actually see the benefit of counseling if you go into it with the notion that the counselor is there to help in a positive way.

    Once you meet with the counselor you might ask these questions:

    What approach does he/she use? He/she might indicate "cognitive therapy," "behavioral," "person-centered," etc. This will tell you what counseling theory grounds him/her. Ask him/her to explain his/her theory of counseling. You may gain a better understanding of what the counseling experience will provide.

    Where did the counselor receive training? Is he/she certified?

    What experience does the counselor have in dealing with your specific issues?

    What about confidentiality? What is confidential and what will be shared with the court?


    You might look into whether or not your health insurance will assist in covering some of the costs associated with the counseling sessions.

    Counseling may prove to be a very beneficial experience for you; however, you will find that the majority of the work done in the sessions is accomplished by you. So, you see...whether or not it's going to be rewarding is going to depend majorly on you.

    Hope some of this helps!
    I don't have insurance, I cannot afford it.
    I am not saying that the counseling will not work for ME, it will not work for him, he's already told me that he can play along but that he distrusts and dislikes any kind of psychological proffessional because of issues from his youth. And I cannot get over the fact that it will cause a financial burden, I don't have the money to pay it and I'm going to have to drop out and then I'll be in contempt. I have NO choice. It's either pay the rent or pay the counselor. There is no option. I have checked out the counselor and he's been having these group sessions for years and has some agreement with the court. I have read both pro and con on him. I am not prejudging. I do know my ex though and I know that this type of set up will not get us where we need to be. He will tell them what they want to hear, but when we are dealing one on one it will be a whole different situation.
    I cannot, cannot, cannot come up with the money to pay for this, that's the point, I have tried everything I can think of and there is no funds. When I do get a little bit ahead, my ex stops paying c/s or interferes with my work schedule or files some additional ridiculous motion.
    I just want all this to stop and wish he would go absent like he has been for four years.
  13. #13
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WANNACRY
    absolutely, if she has to do it, she might as well try to get the most benefit out of it, could make everything with the ex much easier.
    I hope to GOD it works, but I am skeptical. I have two years of psych under my belt via college, I find it fascinating, but I am doubtful that my ex will do anything other than play to the crowd.
    Thank you for the advice re: the financial, I will bring that up in court tomorrow.
  14. #14
    whatthistime is offline Member
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    I went to the counseling**************.oh boy is this NOT going to work.
    Group meeting, all women and the whole focus is regarding Divorce and Family.
    The therapist kept going on about how divorce rips apart a family and mom and dad this and that..but it doesn't fit my situation at all! My ex left me before our son was born and didn't want to see him at all until he was over 2 years old.
    When I told this to the therapist, he said to "pretend" to "imagine" what it would have been like to have that family and to be married to my ex and use those feelings. WHAT??? What feelings, what good is that?
    How do I get out of this counseling and find a situation that will address the particular situation my ex and I and our son are in.
    The counseling is court ordered, what do I do to convince the judge or to send a request that this type of counseling is a waste of money and time and we need someone else. It simply does not address the parenting issues my ex and I have.
    BTW, went to court yesterday and my ex argued for 2 1/2 hours over where to pick up our child. Ridiculous, the judge said finally that I didnt need to let him know 24 hours in advance, in writing that I was not going to be able to meet him somewhere (ex has been flexible in the past and suddenly became difficult after he got married). Judge told ex that kids lives are not static and you have to be prepared to be flexible. So, more money spent on court for a frivalous situation that he created to be difficult.
  15. #15
    MtnMoon is offline Member
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    About counseling...

    Quote Originally Posted by whatthistime
    I went to the counseling**************.oh boy is this NOT going to work.
    Group meeting, all women and the whole focus is regarding Divorce and Family.
    The therapist kept going on about how divorce rips apart a family and mom and dad this and that..but it doesn't fit my situation at all! My ex left me before our son was born and didn't want to see him at all until he was over 2 years old.
    When I told this to the therapist, he said to "pretend" to "imagine" what it would have been like to have that family and to be married to my ex and use those feelings. WHAT??? What feelings, what good is that?
    How do I get out of this counseling and find a situation that will address the particular situation my ex and I and our son are in.
    The counseling is court ordered, what do I do to convince the judge or to send a request that this type of counseling is a waste of money and time and we need someone else. It simply does not address the parenting issues my ex and I have.
    Sounds like your counselor is trying to bring things into the here-and-now... which is common for various group counseling theories. Since he/she is encouraging you to express feelings... this is indicative of a humanistic/phenomenological approach. And the counselor is mentioning imagery... Somehow, without knowing much more, I'm getting the sense that your counselor is quite Gestalt-oriented. If so... you're most likely going to be encountering a lot of exercises which will be focused on enhancing your here-and-now awareness. Now...the drawback to Gestalt is that some people don't like the confrontational aspect...don't see the point in the exercises...and don't get into allowing themselves to experience feelings...especially in front of strangers... The good thing about a group experience is that you can get feedback from others and hear their different points of view...which might assist you in evaluating your own point of view. A positive about Gestalt is that it's easy to incorporate concepts and aspects from other counseling approaches. It does tend to put more emphasis on feelings rather than on cognitions, though.

    Since the counseling is court-ordered...it's doubtful that you'll be able to get out of it. I would suggest that you speak with your counselor and find out about his/her orientation. With Gestalt...or Reality Therapy...or whatever...reading up on the group counseling approaches might be beneficial. In this way, you may be able to get a sense of what you might take away from the experience.

    Here's a website addy for an overview about Gestalt Therapy Theory (to get you started): [url]http://www.g-gej.org/4-3/theoryoverview.html[/url]

    Here's a website addy for Counseling Methods Survey ~ Theories and Theorists: [url]http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/methods.htm[/url]

    Let me expand a little so you may understand where I'm coming from...why I'm offering this info. I believe you mentioned you took a few psychology courses. I have a B.A. in Psychology and am attaining my M.A. in Counseling...currently doing internship which is all that is left now. It was helpful to have the background in psychology when I entered the counseling program; however, putting theory into practice has been an enlightening experience. Having gone through both individual and group counseling sessions myself...I can tell you I went through a great deal of growth and change. I did not expect it to happen...given what I already knew with regard to psychology and various theories. The experience has allowed me to develop my own theory of counseling...as well as my own theory of human nature. I realize my theories are evolving and developing further as I go through internship and continue counseling others. Your situation peaked my interest since counseling is what I do...and as such I took the opportunity to try and help. Hopefully I did.

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