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  1. #1
    ncool is offline Junior Member
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    CPS took my grandchildren!

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Maine
    My daughter is 20 years old. When she had her first child she was 15 and he was 23. She had sex with him once with no further relationship and he didn't know about the baby until just before it was born. Initially he denied it, probably due to fear of being arrested. Then he appeared to be very supportive and willing to help her care for the baby. Her father and I decided not to press charges at the time as we did not see how that would benefit our grandchild. He participated in the birth and we do believe he loves his daughter even now. They decided to try to have a relationship for the child's sake and she moved in with him when she was 16. That was short lived as about a month later they got in a fight and he hit her in the face with a baby cup. I went to the house and demanded she come home. The police were called, but I don't know what happened to the assault charge because it is not on his record. I filed a PFA on him on her behalf. She kept going to see him for a while any way. Then they finally broke up for good and she filed a parental rights and responsibilities case and she got allocated parental rights. The only rights stated on the court paper is that he have visitation 6 hours per week under the supervision of his parents. At 17 she got a new boyfriend. They were together for 3 years, but he also ended up assaulting her. She had a PFA put on him, but then contacted him to try to "work things out" and so he could see his daughter. The things she did were down right stupid, but he made sure she lost her day care and job by refusing to pick up the kids and harrassing her at work so it went both ways. She was arrested for criminal trespass when she went to where he works and then assault, for which she had bail conditions not to contact him! Her lawyer is working on getting the assault charge dismissed because the 3 witnesses filled out new statements saying they lied and it was him who assaulted her, not the other way around. He then moved around the corner form her and broke in to her trailer and stole some items, but the police and DA did nothing about it. The DA said the police are sick of her and will not respond to her calls any more. Then his current girlfriend called her and said they broke up and she had some of my daughter's things and she should come get them as he was not there. She put her two kids in the car late at night and went there. He came through the back door and assulted her. She had bruises all over her. However, she was arrested for violating her bail conditions and it was deemed that he had the right to assault her because she was the one that went there. On top of that, the kids were sleeping in the car and when the cop moved the car he realized the car was unsafe because it had little brakes. The police contacted me to go get the kids. The police report says nothing about her assaulting him that night, however the next day he filled out a PFA on her saying she did assault him and the judge gave him temporary custody of the 2 year old, which was temporarily granted. After the two year old was removed from my home to go to his, we contacted the courts, AWAP, the DA, and DHS because the father uses drugs, the girlfriend (who is 18 and he is 28) self mutilates, there is domestic violence between him and his new girlfriend, and the home they live in is physically unsafe. DHS and AWAP instructed us to go back to the court to have his PFA dissolved. That was set for the same day as his temporary PFA hearing. They then told us to have her go get another PFA due to his assaulting her. The judge denied it and called DHS again. That night they were at my daughter's door. They said she "overused" the police and court system even though the father also repeatedly called the police with false reports and there is a police report stating that. My daughter was quite honest and told DHS the whole story about what happened during their relationship, including the stupid choices she had made as well as her concerns for her daughter in the environment the father currently lived in. In the mean time I kept the 5 year old. DHS went to the father's home and deemed it unsafe and had me come get the 2 year old pending further investigation of the situation. However they told me that the father technically has custody of his daughter at this point so he would be able to choose where the child went and they would check out his mother's home. The 2 year old is currently with her. Then the 5 year old's father jumped on the band wagon. He also filed a PFA on my daughter on behalf of the 5 year old. It was granted that she not harrass, etc. the 5 year old, but they did not give him custody or grant the PFA on him beause he had no grounds. DHS investigated me and discovered there was a domestic violence incident with me and my current boyfriend 2 years ago. He quit drinking and there has never been another incident and nothing ever occurred in front of my grandchildren. In fact, they have never even seen us argue. However, because of that they took the 5 year old from my home and placed her with her father's sister. They got a PPO on both kids and DHS now has custody of the kids. Intially they were going to take the 5 year old to her father's home, but my daughter demanded to speak with the supervisor because she had allocated rights and they were not aware of that, but becuase of that DHS said we ere both "uncooperative." As soon as the kids were taken my daughter set herself up with counseling and a psychological eval. They said she can't choose her own providers and told her where she must go for counseling - someone who has a contract with DHS. They also told her she may have to take a second eval. The court gave all of the parents lawyers and at the lawyer advice all 3 of them waived their right to a hearing on the PPO. DHS said my daughter is "the aggressor" and that she has "stalking behaviors" and she has failed to protect her kids from emotional harm. I totally get why they are saying that. She is now doing everything she can to improve herself and is participating in everything they want her to. She has NO income and when she said she could get a good job with awesome benefits they told her if she chooses to do that she will be showing she is putting her needs above the children. They told her to get a job where she can work only on weekends, but 2 days a week aren't going to pay her bills! She has supervised visitation, yet the father's are allowed to go to thier family members homes without supervision to see the kids. She has only seen them 3 times in the past month because they can't seem to get anyone to supervise. They were talking about getting Kids Peace to do the supervision (who can do it on weekends), but when my daughter asked if they had set that up they said they weren't going to because they wanted to see what they could do with thier own people first as they would have to pay for that! We are concerned that the kids bond with her is going to be broken and that they will then say the 2 year old has bonded with her paternal grandmother and she should stay there. We have had a family team meeting. The father's and current care takers of ths kids were not involved in it. They say they are working toward reunification with my daughter, but are they also working on reunification with the fathers? And even if she does everything they ask, will they still say the kids are still unsafe due to the conflicts between the families? I think there needs to be some kind of plan for that. There is a case management conference coming up July 14. Is there anything we haven't thought of that my daughter needs to be doing? What are the chances that the kids will be returned to her and not the fathers or their families? She has no substance abuse problems and no problems caring for the kids otherwise. Her lawyer says the kids need to come back to her as soon as possible. She is willing to have continued DHS involvement and intensive in home services, but wants the kids returned to her. The jeopardy hearing is expected to happen in September. I have interested party status with the courts. Is there anything else I can do without harming her case with DHS given how they are also looking at me?? Can she file a parental rights case with the 2 year old's father while DHS has temporary custody? Does she have more rights due to being the primary caretaker of the kids? The father of the 2 year old said he would give his parental rights to his mother and he refused drug testing. Both father's PFA's were dismissed in court. Hers is still active on the 2 year old's father, but was amended so that she doesn't have custody of the child. I don't suppose there's any chance the judge would give the kids back to her in September with in home supports and continued DHS monitoring and treatment? These kids have a close bond with her and with each other and now they are separated. Please don't think I am in denial of my daughter's prolbems or that I have approved of the choices she has made or that I want the kids to never see their father's again. My concern is my grandchildren and what is best for them and ofcourse I don't want to lose them either. It seems like the deck is pretty stacked against her. Any idea how long it will be before seh knows whether her kdis will be returned? ANY ideas or information would be great. Thank you in advance.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
  2. #2
    stealth2 is offline Senior Member
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    Whoa - you need to add some serious white space. That is way too hard to read. Thanks.
  3. #3
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Is there anything else I can do without harming her case with DHS given how they are also looking at me??
    You can get an attorney and follow his advice. How are you an interested party in this case by the way? Did you file a motion?

    Can she file a parental rights case with the 2 year old's father while DHS has temporary custody?
    NO. Your daughter CANNOT file parental rights case against the 2 year old's father due to DHS involvement.

    Does she have more rights due to being the primary caretaker of the kids?
    Nope. She stands on equal footing with the fathers of her children. They both have equal rights to be reunified with the children.
    The father of the 2 year old said he would give his parental rights to his mother and he refused drug testing.
    he can't do that.

    Both father's PFA's were dismissed in court. Hers is still active on the 2 year old's father, but was amended so that she doesn't have custody of the child. I don't suppose there's any chance the judge would give the kids back to her in September with in home supports and continued DHS monitoring and treatment?
    I don't know. Maybe. How much of her case plan has she completed?

    These kids have a close bond with her and with each other and now they are separated. Please don't think I am in denial of my daughter's prolbems or that I have approved of the choices she has made or that I want the kids to never see their father's again.
    But yo uhave approved of her choices -- you allowed her at the age of 16 to move in with her rapist boyfriend.

    My concern is my grandchildren and what is best for them and ofcourse I don't want to lose them either. It seems like the deck is pretty stacked against her. Any idea how long it will be before seh knows whether her kdis will be returned?
    Could be up to two years.

    All the above happened in two years? Your daughter has issues. You have issues for allowing your child to move in with a boyfriend at the age of 16. That doesn't show stability or good judgment.

    The fathers have EQUAL rights to be reunified with their children -- your daughter did not create these children in a vacuum. The fact that you have participated in your daughter's issues does not make you a good placement either.

    She needs to work her caseplan, complete, quit making excuses as to how life sucks and the world is against her, and realize it is not about her. It is about the children. She needs to jump through every hoop DHS gives her. And quickly. She made her bed and now her children have to deal with it.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  4. #4
    ncool is offline Junior Member
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    response to questions

    1. What is "white space" and how do you use it?

    2. Yes. I filed a motion for interested party and it was approved by the judge. The judge said that only means that I can be present during hearings and nothing else.

    3. To clarify: I did not "approve" of my daughter to move in with the guy at age 16! The police told me there was nothing I could do about it due to her age! She also was always very advanced, graduated school early, became employed, etc. and got emanciapted through the courts. Did you not see that I did things like file a PFA on him?

    4. How can it take up to two years when we were told that by law they have to terminate the parental rights after one year?

    5. She has only begun to work on the case plan as this is the very beginning of the case. Come Sept. it will only have been a couple of months that she would be workign on the plan, however her lawyer said they will have to prove jeopardy again at that time and cannot use hearsay, including police reports.

    6. No this did not all happen over a period of 2 years. Where did you get that from??

    7. She has every intention of doing whatever they want her to do. But if the father's do the same how will they decide who the children live with? And just as she did not create these kids in a vacuum, she did not create this situation all by herself. Each of them has equal responsibility for what these kids experienced. I don't know where you get that she is complaining about how everyone is out to get her and life sucks. She is taking responsibility for her part and was completely honest with DHS about that from the beginning, which is what gave them the information to remove the kids in the first place. Did you not also see what she had to deal with from this abuser?? And this wasn't even half of it. She was under an enormous amount of stress while trying to care for 2 kids at a young age. I already stated she made poor choices, but put yourself in her shoes for one moment. Was she supposed to lie down and take whatever he threw at her and just give her kids up or something??? And then when the other father saw how quick the tactics worked for him he joined in as well. Sure she needs to deal with her own issues and do what she needs to for those kids, and focus on herself, but that doesn't negate their behaviors and issues either.

    Additonal comments: Many people are of the opinion that automatically if DHS is involved in your family you are some kind of low life. OBVIOUSLY she has issues that need to be dealt with. She is very young and still has alot of growing up to do along with alot of responsibilty. She also has a tremendous amount of strengths that can assist her in dealing with them. Perhaps you are not aware that when your teen is acting out the system goes against you as a parent in stopping it and you can then be accused of child abuse yourself. My sister was ARRESTED for going to get her daughter after she ran away. Apparently you also are not aware of how DHS actually operates and are of the opinion that they should be able to legally kidnap children rather than assist families in staying together and getting the services they need. Apparently this is not a supportive environment. You are very judgemental of others even though they are very honest about their situations and there is limited space to explain everything. How is that helpful again?? No one is perfect, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve respect, assistance and support. People can not work from whatever choices they have already made. There is nothing that can be done about the past. They can only work to correct them for the future, which is why they ask for assistance in the first place. It is also interesting to me how you had plenty to say about her, but not about the drug use or abusiveness and behaviors of the fathers. That smacks of discrimination because she is the female, which is the very mindset that increases domestic violence. And do you have any knowledge or experience with what transpires in abusive relationships, especially when you leave?? She reached out for help from AWAP, DHS, and the court system. Did you really objectively read all that I wrote? I do thank you for your helpful input however.
  5. #5
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncool View Post
    1. What is "white space" and how do you use it?
    Hit "enter" or "return" every now and then. Break up those big boring blocks of text with some...white space.

    Quote Originally Posted by ncool
    It is also interesting to me how you had plenty to say about her, but not about the drug use or abusiveness and behaviors of the fathers. That smacks of discrimination because she is the female, which is the very mindset that increases domestic violence.
    Bite me.

    YOU have NO business here, whatsoever. We don't have to answer any of your questions, get that?

    The reason your {pejorative} daughter was discussed, is because SHE is the one under discussion. YOU posted about HER. SHE is the main problem here. SHE'S the one you're trying to HELP, right??

    Short sighted, ain'tcha? So go ahead, apologize.
    Quote Originally Posted by ncool
    And do you have any knowledge or experience with what transpires in abusive relationships, especially when you leave?? She reached out for help from AWAP, DHS, and the court system.
    No, we're all just a bunch of idiots.
    Quote Originally Posted by ncool
    Did you really objectively read all that I wrote? I do thank you for your helpful input however.
    No. We just enjoy wasting our time.
  6. #6
    Blue Meanie is offline Senior Member
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    White space is the white space between paragraphs. It enables members to read your posts without going blind. Click on the edit button on your first post and add (by hitting the enter key) some white space between paragraphs. Double spacing is good.
  7. #7
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Sorry you didn't like what I had to say. Never mind. I won't respond ANY more regarding your situation. I have two trials this afternoon in juvenile court anyway.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.

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