Custody Battle Germany Washington

[Douglas_]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA
Currently my wife and I live in Germany. I am a US citizen. She a German citizen.
So long story short.
Ex man kidnapped kid from Germany to Spain and got caught. Spent time in German prison and lost all rights to visitation and custody (Not just because of kidnapping but also because he is not a good, responsible person (Sociopath but can't prove that legally.)).
Daughter is 15 and US citizen and German as well.
Ex is US.

So, we are thinking about moving to Washington State.
Daughter does not want to see biological father and has not since she was 4 or so. Mother has the same thinking but perhaps stronger.
He has sued us in here in Germany over 30 times in the last 10 years and has never won. This is a very hard thing to do here. Visitation is VERY hard to lose here but he has due to his behavior.

So would we need to relive all these legal fights in WA or would they accept the German conclusions about visitation etc? If she is ordered to visit him and goes with him but comes back? Then what? I have read others saying that you must force you teenager to visit even against their will but really a girl of 15 or 16 by the time we move knows what they want and why. They are mostly quite independent especially Germans that can start having sleep over boyfriends at 14 and drinking at 16 (naturally they start before that). It is a different culture here. People grow up faster. I know that has no legal bearing but it does have practical bearing.

Anyway, I hope to learn what your legal probable situation might be and the results we might expect to achieve.

Thanks for you time and advice!!

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA
Currently my wife and I live in Germany. I am a US citizen. She a German citizen.
So long story short.
Ex man kidnapped kid from Germany to Spain and got caught. Spent time in German prison and lost all rights to visitation and custody (Not just because of kidnapping but also because he is not a good, responsible person (Sociopath but can't prove that legally.)).
Daughter is 15 and US citizen and German as well.
Ex is US.

So, we are thinking about moving to Washington State.
Daughter does not want to see biological father and has not since she was 4 or so. Mother has the same thinking but perhaps stronger.
He has sued us in here in Germany over 30 times in the last 10 years and has never won. This is a very hard thing to do here. Visitation is VERY hard to lose here but he has due to his behavior.

So would we need to relive all these legal fights in WA or would they accept the German conclusions about visitation etc? If she is ordered to visit him and goes with him but comes back? Then what? I have read others saying that you must force you teenager to visit even against their will but really a girl of 15 or 16 by the time we move knows what they want and why. They are mostly quite independent especially Germans that can start having sleep over boyfriends at 14 and drinking at 16 (naturally they start before that). It is a different culture here. People grow up faster. I know that has no legal bearing but it does have practical bearing.

Anyway, I hope to learn what your legal probable situation might be and the results we might expect to achieve.

Thanks for you time and advice!!

This is not your legal battle. It is Mom's. Please have her post for herself. Thanks!!

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA
Currently my wife and I live in Germany. I am a US citizen. She a German citizen.
So long story short.
Ex man kidnapped kid from Germany to Spain and got caught. Spent time in German prison and lost all rights to visitation and custody (Not just because of kidnapping but also because he is not a good, responsible person (Sociopath but can't prove that legally.)).
Daughter is 15 and US citizen and German as well.
Ex is US.

So, we are thinking about moving to Washington State.
Daughter does not want to see biological father and has not since she was 4 or so. Mother has the same thinking but perhaps stronger.
He has sued us in here in Germany over 30 times in the last 10 years and has never won. This is a very hard thing to do here. Visitation is VERY hard to lose here but he has due to his behavior.

So would we need to relive all these legal fights in WA or would they accept the German conclusions about visitation etc? If she is ordered to visit him and goes with him but comes back? Then what? I have read others saying that you must force you teenager to visit even against their will but really a girl of 15 or 16 by the time we move knows what they want and why. They are mostly quite independent especially Germans that can start having sleep over boyfriends at 14 and drinking at 16 (naturally they start before that). It is a different culture here. People grow up faster. I know that has no legal bearing but it does have practical bearing.

Anyway, I hope to learn what your legal probable situation might be and the results we might expect to achieve.

Thanks for you time and advice!!

Is the father also a US citizen? If not, how did the 15 year old obtain US citizenship?

It is not very likely that the US courts would override the German courts as far as visitation is concerned, particularly since the child has not seen the father since she was 4 years old and particularly under the conditions that caused his visitation to be voided.

However, if he is also a US citizen who could visit in the US some limited visitation, possibly supervised, possibly therapeutic (taking placed in a counselor's office) might be ordered. However again, its not very likely.

If you do move to the US, I recommend that you get a translated, certified copy of the entire German court file. I suspect that would be quite expensive, but you may eventually need it.

 

[Just Blue]

Is the father also a US citizen? If not, how did the 15 year old obtain US citizenship?

It is not very likely that the US courts would override the German courts as far as visitation is concerned, particularly since the child has not seen the father since she was 4 years old and particularly under the conditions that caused his visitation to be voided.

However, if he is also a US citizen who could visit in the US some limited visitation, possibly supervised, possibly therapeutic (taking placed in a counselor's office) might be ordered. However again, its not very likely.

If you do move to the US, I recommend that you get a translated, certified copy of the entire German court file. I suspect that would be quite expensive, but your wife may eventually need it.

Fixed that for you.

 

[LdiJ]

Fixed that for you.

I was using the collective you, but nevertheless, you are right.

 

[Just Blue]

I was using the collective you, but nevertheless, you are right.

I know...Just wanted to make sure OP knows that as well.

 

[Proserpina]

The Ex is also a US citizen per the first (somewhat confused) post.

That aside, I am choosing to not answer further. The OP should understand exactly why.

 

[Douglas_]

Why must my wife post? She has Post traumatic Stress syndrome from this and it is better that I do it for her sake.

Also, I have no idea why you would not answer further.

Sorry if the post was confused. I don't speak much English these days and have not for 10 years.

Anyway, it seems like I have received some good answers.

Thanks all!

 

[Just Blue]

Why must my wife post? She has Post traumatic Stress syndrome from this and it is better that I do it for her sake.

Sorry if the post was confused. I don't speak much English these days and have not for 10 years.

Anyway, it seems like I have received some good answers.

Thanks all!

Because it is HER LEGAL ISSUE. If she is not up to it, perhaps SHE should hire an attorney to assist.

 

[Douglas_]

"Because it is HER LEGAL ISSUE. If she is not up to it, perhaps SHE should hire an attorney to assist. "

We are married. We do all this legal stuff as a team. Also we have one. She is great but German and as you might know the German system is quite different from the US one. The German attorney thinks that the US will not honor German decisions. It is nice to hear otherwize. Gives me hope of not having to re-fight this whole mess in the USA. I am also quite happy to do a bit of reconnaissance online before talking to whomever I do hire in the USA.

Thanks again.

 

[LdiJ]

Because it is HER LEGAL ISSUE. If she is not up to it, perhaps SHE should hire an attorney to assist.

This is a little bit different. Obviously she has been handling her legal issues (probably with the help of an attorney) for the last 10 years. All this OP wanted was some fairly technical information that could be answered without any input from any direct participants.

 

[Just Blue]

This is a little bit different. Obviously she has been handling her legal issues (probably with the help of an attorney) for the last 10 years. All this OP wanted was some fairly technical information that could be answered without any input from any direct participants.

Huh? In the U.S. his wife will have to handle this herself. Or hire an attorney. That is the, IMO, technical answer.

 

[LdiJ]

Huh? In the U.S. his wife will have to handle this herself. Or hire an attorney. That is the, IMO, technical answer.

Its one thing to tell a poster who is talking about a US case, where they clearly couldn't know the whole story, to have one of the participants sign up for themselves and to ask their questions themselves.

Its entirely another to ask a question that is more procedural or technical in nature. The OP wanted to know if the US courts would ignore the proceedings of a German court and basically start everything all over from scratch, and he gave us a few facts of the case.

We actually didn't need to know many facts to answer the question.

Had the OP said that a German court terminated a parent's visitation for cause, and that cause included the parent spending some time in prison, and then asked if it was likely that a US court would ignore that and start everything over from scratch, my answer would have been the same. Very unlikely.

I have no problem with answering questions that are generic/procedural/technical in nature if I do not believe that my answer might do more harm than good because a third party with limited information asked the question.

In this case, the question asked was easily answered. Therefore I chose to answer it. That was my right. You chose not to answer it, that was your right as well.

 

[Just Blue]

Its one thing to tell a poster who is talking about a US case, where they clearly couldn't know the whole story, to have one of the participants sign up for themselves and to ask their questions themselves.

Its entirely another to ask a question that is more procedural or technical in nature. The OP wanted to know if the US courts would ignore the proceedings of a German court and basically start everything all over from scratch, and he gave us a few facts of the case.

We actually didn't need to know many facts to answer the question.

Had the OP said that a German court terminated a parent's visitation for cause, and that cause included the parent spending some time in prison, and then asked if it was likely that a US court would ignore that and start everything over from scratch, my answer would have been the same. Very unlikely.

I have no problem with answering questions that are generic/procedural/technical in nature if I do not believe that my answer might do more harm than good because a third party with limited information asked the question.

In this case, the question asked was easily answered. Therefore I chose to answer it. That was my right. You chose not to answer it, that was your right as well.

I will have to agree to disagree.

 

[LdiJ]

I will have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough.