day care providers rights vs. fathers rights

[blueboy]

What is the name of your state? CA
I picked my daughter up from day care today to take her to a doctors appointment that her mother scheduled but was unable to take her to. Her mother forgot to notify day care that provider that I was going to be picking her up. Day care provider is a family friend to my daughters mother and runs an in home child care facility. Any way, she told me that I was not going to be able to take my daughter anywhere because she knew my daughters visitation schedule and today was not my day. I told her that her mother scheduled an appointment but was unable to take her and I was there to take her. She said she was within her legal rights to keep my daughter there and not let me have her. I told her to go ahead and call my daughters mother and get permission. She did and I was then able to take her. However, if she had not been able to get ahold of her mother right then she said she had no legal obligation to give her to me. All of this was said in front of my daughter. Day care provider raised her voice so that all of the children present could hear what was being said.
My daughter is very confussed right now because of her grandmothers remarks about why she should not have to visit with her father at all if she didn't want to all she has to do is tell her doctor that she doesn't like me and she doesn't want to go to dad's house any more. ( I figure if she tells her dr. that g-mother said that, then that will look good for me not bad for me am I wrong?)

Here's my question... If I had called the police would they have told her to let me have my daughter or would they have told me to leave her there?

 

[hexeliebe]

No one can tell you what the police would have done.

But, as a divorced father who has faced the same situation I can tell you that although the daycare provider handled the situation incorrectly, she has every right not to allow you to take the daughter.

Get a copy of the contract your ex has with the provider. I don't care if she is a relative, there had better be a contract. If not, have one drawn up to stipulate that if the custodial parent cannot pick the child up she/he is to make arrangements with the provider that the non-custodial parent is to be allowed.

This has nothing to do with visitation but with child protection. My ex forgot to notify the school where my daughter's atten that I would be picking them up once...and only once.

If the caregive will not sign such a contract then speak with your ex about moving their daycare. Once the agreement is in place you have ground for interferrence.

 

[stealth2]

Not entirely the provider's fault that the child (and others) overheard - NCP could also have requested a chance to talk in a more private locale.

However, since this was an unscheduled pick-up, she was entirely correct in not alllowing you to simply take the child. It is also entirely likely that the police would not have allowed you to remove her w/o the CP's express permission.

 

[blueboy]

just to let you know. I did not raise my voice. All I did was show up notify her of the situation and she went off. I could not ask for a more private locale becuase she was at the park with all the children . This is not the first time she has yelled at me unprovoked. It is the 2nd time, she has also yelled at my wife. CP and CP's family have told her way too much about our custody arrangments and now she feels that she can put her two cents in about my daughters welfare when ever she sees fit. Even on scheduled days that I have her. I have started carrying a copy of court order just in case she tries to pull something.

What about my first question? Does it hurt or help me that my daughter is being coached to tell her doctor that she doesn't want to see me and doesn't like me? By the way I took her to the appointment today when she told her doctor. She says she doesn't care if it hurts me, all that matters is that her g-mother and mother get to see her.

 

[DChristian112]

First of all, a Dr. has no official ruling on whether or not your daughter visits you or not. There is nothing a Dr. can say or do to keep you and your daughter from visiting. (Unless of course a Dr. feels that you are abusing your child, and there is proof, however, it is very unlikely a Dr. would even intervene.
Yes, it makes the Grandmother look bad, morally and ethically, because she is intentionally attempting to interfere with your relationship with your child. But what do you need to look good or bad on? Are you battling in courts as of now?
Grandmother is making an ass out of herself, and that is about it. Unless you get a gag order on her or something, she can continue to say whatever she likes about you, or attempt to "brainwash" your daughter. If you feel she is an immediate threat or harm to your child, say psychologically, I would speak with an attorney, or maybe even the child's mother?
The daycare provider was well within her limits. In most cases, you have to sign a contract and list people who are allowed to pick up said child in the event the guardian or custodial parent cannot. (Like for instance, my mother, sister, and children's father are on the "allow" list- anyone who shows up other than listed people, have to have a written or verbal agreement between myself and my day care provider.)
Good Luck and God Bless!

 

[blueboy]

Thank you.
I realize now that she was within her rights. It was handled wrong, but nothing I can do about that now. I was frusterated and angery so I didn't stop and think before I posted the first time.

I have suspected that CP and CP's family have been speaking badly about me to my daughter for several years now. That is why on our court order her and her family ,( as well as mine) are ordered not speak badly about either parent in front of or within the hearing of child. I am not currently in a court battle but I feel the tides turing in that direction. I have documented every little thing. Right now I am just sitting and waiting for papers to arrive in the mail.

Thanks for all adivce

 

[DChristian112]

It is a tough thing to go through. I am quite sure my ex's family bad mouths me, or tries to downplay me as a mother in front of my children. My family hates my kids father, and has said inappropriate things, but I will not allow it.
Unless you have a tape recorded glued to your daughter at all times, there is really no way to know if the family is abiding this rule or not. It is a he said she said thing. And, a judge really cannot be there at all times to know if this is happening or not.
Good luck and God bless!

 

[stealth2]

First of all, a Dr. has no official ruling on whether or not your daughter visits you or not. There is nothing a Dr. can say or do to keep you and your daughter from visiting. (Unless of course a Dr. feels that you are abusing your child, and there is proof, however, it is very unlikely a Dr. would even intervene.

The only thing a doctor could do is call CPS - s/he would have absolutely no ability to keep the child from visiting under any circumstances.

The problem with what's being said to your daughter is that you have no proof. She is too young to speak with a judge. A regular doctor... not likely that one comment during a visit is going to carry much weight. It would be better for *you* if she said such things during ongoing visits with a psychologist, or if she said something similar to a GAL (Guardian Ad Litem). Good luck.

 

[ellencee]

blueboy
I think the judge will not appreciate parents or grandparents attempting to prejudice a child against her father. Hopefully, if you end up in court, the judge will let them know how 'wrong' their behavior is. They don't have to like you, but they do have to let the child like you.

You keep on being a good Dad and a loving Dad.

You could tell the daycare woman that in hindsight, you do appreciate her looking out for your daughter and not letting your daughter leave with anyone if proper notification had not been given and received.

 

[blueboy]

sorry should have specified it was a child therapist.
That was why I figured it would hurt her mothers case and help mine. Things have been slowly building up to a return to court. I am sure that within this year we will be going back. I have been using the p.t.t. from the F.R.T.C. site to record everything.

couple of questions on the child therapist though..
How could she be used in a hearing? Could I get a statement from her for my declaration or would I have to call her as a witness? And would it be wise to call her as a witness considering she could go either way?any ideas?

 

[strcrssed]

frustration of visitation

I have a link in my inbox that has free legal advice from attorneys. Unless I miss my guess, you are the non-custodial parent....sorry, my attention is divided between my 4yr. old and the counter she keeps trying to climb onto.....Which means that you have visitation rights. Okay, my point is this...by interfereing with your relationship with your daughter the custodial parent and her family could possibly be violating your visitation rights. Which means that could quite possibly give you grounds to sue for custodial....uh...do you want the link?

 

[stealth2]

strcrssed... I find that interesting advice considering you're denying *your* child's father access. Don't you?

 

[strcrssed]

I'm denying him, because she is acting scared of him. In the mean time I signed a temporary access agreement with his mother that allows him visitation through her as long as he is not allowed to leave with her or be left alone with her until something has been done. And personally if you would let your children go with someone they are scared of, regardless of who it was and their relation, then you are a ****ty parent. I did what i thought was right for my daughter and kept her from going somewhere she did not want to be at the time. I will not apologize for that. I have no family in this world other than her and it my duty as well as my priveledge to keep her from situations that causes her to scream and cry until she is physically sick. Don't you think Momma Tiger? If your ex developed a crack habit over night...would you let your kids go with him? Gee...I wonder why. Leave me alone already

 

[blueboy]

i'd love the link strcrssed...and thanks for all the encouraging words.

 

[strcrssed]

Okay I need somewhere I can send it. This is my first time in a chat room or forum or whatever. And I will gladly send you that link. my email is attached to my profile.