Does my ex have right to record phone conversation w/kids?

[Ohiogal]

Then maybe you should be more careful how you refer to the children.

Not true in all states (we just had that come up recently, don't recall which state the discussion was about), would have to look specifically at the states involved.

Actually it is true. Vicarious consent ONLY applies when the child is in danger and the parents can prove said danger. Calls cannot be recorded for tortious purposes

 

[wileybunch]

I am concerned for our children. This is the reason why I had posted this question. I do not want these children after three years to suffer any more from this divorce.

How is this making the children suffer?

 

[proud_parent]

Ok, to simplify, he is calling our children from Rhode Island to Florida and recording these conversations. He is calling me from Rhode Island to Florida and recording these conversations as well. On the recorder was a conversation of him and his attorney talking about diminishing my alimony.

That is new information. Why didn't you mention it previously? The only points you felt important to mention initially were that you have reason to believe he is taping calls between you and the children, that he may be seeking a reduction or termination of your alimony, and that he may be seeking an order to split transportation costs.

ETA: Ah, now I get it. When you stated, "He has been recording phone conversations with my children and I for the past year", I interpreted that to mean that he was recording conversations between you and your children. You meant that he was recording his conversations with the children and also recording his conversations with you.

Clarity in writing is an asset when seeking legal advice on an internet forum.

As for our daughter finding the recorder. She initially was just playing around with it she says, and was very disturbed that her father would do something as to record their conversations. I will not give her a stern talk about listening to the recorder. The issue here is he is an adult, and should not be recording conversations without consent. Also if he was so concerned about his own privacy, he should not be leaving such a devise around so a minor could have access to it. Especially his own child. He is the one that needs the stern talking to. Our daughter does not need to be a part of it.

Certainly, your daughter should not be a part of your squabbles or legal battles with your ex. Neither should your ex be recording your children's phone calls with you, nor his phone calls with you without your consent. But his behavior is not the only issue here.

Your daughter is responsible for her own behavior, as her father is responsible for his. No one forced your daughter to listen to the recordings against her will. Nor to listen to them long enough to discern that her father was talking to a lawyer about the possibility of cutting off your alimony. Nor to return to you with that information. Your daughter chose to do so. Did she do so at your urging?

Our daughter claims that the device was laying on a lamp table in the living room.

Of course she claims that. How many 16-year olds do you know who would readily admit it if they found the device in Dad's bedroom or office desk?

I am concerned for our children. This is the reason why I had posted this question. I do not want these children after three years to suffer any more from this divorce. It has taken a lot to get them back into the norm of things and I do not want them to be a part the hatred their father obviously has for me.

What hatred? Nothing you've stated up to this point demonstrates any hatred. If what dad is seeking is a reduction in your alimony and to split the transportation costs for visitation, how would that possibly involve the children? What is the rest of the story that you are leaving out?

There is no betrayal involved on this end.

I used the word "betrayal" in the sense of inadvertently revealing information one would rather conceal. In your conversations with the children, did you perhaps let it slip that you are cohabitating with someone? That you are planning to remarry? That your financial circumstances have dramatically improved? Those might be the sort of tidbits that would send Dad running to an attorney.

If it is illegal, I want to know. If this ever does come to him taking me back to court. I need to understand why he is recording us,...

Why do you need to understand? If the recordings are introduced in court, the judge will not care why he recorded. Only whether the recordings were properly obtained, and if so, whether they are authentic.

...and it will be mentioned in court as to why he is doing so.

Don't bet on it. If he doesn't attempt to introduce the tapes into evidence, how would the taping be brought up at all? If he did learn of a change of circumstances through those tapes, that does not preclude him from now finding evidence of those circumstances that would be admissible in court.

Furthermore, what proof do you have as to the tapes' existence? The word of your 16 year old is not proof.

Prosecuting him is definitely not beneficial and I would not take it that far.

Good.

Like I said before. I want to know is if his recording these recorded conversations are illegal, and does he have the right?

You've been given the answer.

He is documenting for some reason and I should obviously be doing the same.

So is that the reason for your questions? You sense that litigation is imminent, and you want to know if you can get in trouble for recording him without his consent? If so, why not come out and say that?

Go ahead and document whatever you need to document for court. Just do so legally.

 

[skarys]

Quote: Your daughter is responsible for her own behavior, as her father is responsible for his. No one forced your daughter to listen to the recordings against her will. Nor to listen to them long enough to discern that her father was talking to a lawyer about the possibility of cutting off your alimony. Nor to return to you with that information. Your daughter chose to do so. Did she do so at your urging?

Absolutely not! She called me to tell me about what she had found. She told me that she was disturbed about one particular conversation she had with her father. At the end of the conversation he commented after the hang up, that she was not being raised correctly because she was at her boyfriends house alone, without adult supervision and that was not at all the case. There was adult supervision and I know that because I dropped her off there. myself and picked her up. She actually told me that she was so upset that she was going to smash the recorder. I advised her not to. And as for her telling the truth where she found the recorder. I do not raise liars. If she said that's where she found it then that's where she found it.

Quote: That is new information. Why didn't you mention it previously? The only points you felt important to mention initially were that you have reason to believe he is taping calls between you and the children, that he may be seeking a reduction or termination of your alimony, and that he may be seeking an order to split transportation costs.

No, you are mistaken. That is not what I mentioned at all. Clarity is a mistake on your part. Read it again. Everyone else on this thread understood perfectly. The part of the alimony and transportation split costs is true.

Quote: What hatred? Nothing you've stated up to this point demonstrates any hatred. If what dad is seeking is a reduction in your alimony and to split the transportation costs for visitation, how would that possibly involve the children? What is the rest of the story that you are leaving out?

Easy, by him reducing my alimony or terminating my alimony puts more stress on me, which in turn involves the children. Try taking a pay cut and see how your life changes. Don't you think the lives of our children will change as well. It is court ordered through the divorce decree that has has to pay for all transportation. He agreed to that. If he is so concerned about transportation cost then maybe he should consider moving to Florida so he can be closer to our children. That's seems like the normal thing to do to me.
FYI:He once told me that he hated me because he has to pay me child support and alimony. He also told me that he was going to make my life a living hell because he has to pay.

Quote: Actually it is true. Vicarious consent ONLY applies when the child is in danger and the parents can prove said danger. Calls cannot be recorded for tortious purposes

The stress of him calling these children and asking them the same questions over and over about what they ate. Did they take a shower. Did they do their homework. Where is your mother? What time did they go to bed last night? To me that is torture. He is not having a conversation, he is having an interrogation. Where is that legal? How would he like it if I called there on a day to day basis and asked the children those same questions? How about if I ask questions like, did you find daddy's stash today? Or has any more child porn popped up on the computer? Or does daddy's have the neighbors 15 year old daughter still sleeping there? I mean really, he has not a pot to piss in. (no pun intended) These are things that our children came to me and told me the last couple years when they stayed there that they came across.

Quote: So is that the reason for your questions? You sense that litigation is imminent, and you want to know if you can get in trouble for recording him without his consent? If so, why not come out and say that?

Go ahead and document whatever you need to document for court. Just do so legally.

Wow. You really turned this one around. I do not sense that litigation is imminent. And I absolutely have no intentions of recording him. I have much better things to do with my time and my life. Like raise children correctly. One more time. The reason I posted on this forum is to find out one thing. I found out what I wanted to know. And I absolutely plan to do it legally. I have lived by my divorce decree and plan on not making any mistakes. That is why I am here!

Thank you to all that was helpful in answering my question.

 

[jbowman]

He has been recording phone conversations with my children and I for the past year. ?

Sorry, but I also took this to mean that Dad was recording conversations between you and the kids (kids on one end, you on the other). I think A LOT of people took that as the meaning which is why you were getting the responses you were getting regarding dad not able to give consent for a minor in a one party state.

 

[proud_parent]

Absolutely not! She called me to tell me about what she had found. She told me that she was disturbed about one particular conversation she had with her father. At the end of the conversation he commented after the hang up, that she was not being raised correctly because she was at her boyfriends house alone, without adult supervision and that was not at all the case. There was adult supervision and I know that because I dropped her off there. myself and picked her up. She actually told me that she was so upset that she was going to smash the recorder. I advised her not to. And as for her telling the truth where she found the recorder. I do not raise liars. If she said that's where she found it then that's where she found it.

Kudos for raising a truthful child. Or should I say, for helping to raise a truthful child. After all, Dad shares joint custody.

None the above addresses why said child listened to the entirety of the tapes, by the way.

No, you are mistaken. That is not what I mentioned at all. Clarity is a mistake on your part. Read it again. Everyone else on this thread understood perfectly.

I beg to differ:

Unless I am sadly mistaken, even in a one party state, you have to actually be a party to the conversation to record it(or have the permission of one of the parties to do so, and minors can't give consent). If the call was betwixt Mom and the kids, Dad should NOT be recording it.

#1. This is a federal issue.
#2. EVEN IF it was a one party consent situation, it wouldn't apply in this case because Dad didn't have consent of either party. Child is too young to consent and Dad can't consent for her.

No, the X can not "legally" record you talking to the kids. You can put him on notice that you are aware of his having done so, but that does not mean he will stop. If he chooses to continuen, you can bet he hide it a bit better.

See also jbowman's post.

Easy, by him reducing my alimony or terminating my alimony puts more stress on me, which in turn involves the children. Try taking a pay cut and see how your life changes. Don't you think the lives of our children will change as well.

Has he indicated that he is seeking to reduce or to terminate child support? Your true concern is showing.

It is court ordered through the divorce decree that has has to pay for all transportation. He agreed to that. If he is so concerned about transportation cost then maybe he should consider moving to Florida so he can be closer to our children. That's seems like the normal thing to do to me.
FYI:He once told me that he hated me because he has to pay me child support and alimony. He also told me that he was going to make my life a living hell because he has to pay.

So your ex hates you. That does not mean he does not have a right to seek a reduction in your alimony if circumstances have changed. He also has a right to seek a modification to the court order regarding transportation expenses. That doesn't mean that the Court will grant his petition.

The stress of him calling these children and asking them the same questions over and over about what they ate. Did they take a shower. Did they do their homework. Where is your mother? What time did they go to bed last night? To me that is torture. He is not having a conversation, he is having an interrogation. Where is that legal? How would he like it if I called there on a day to day basis and asked the children those same questions? How about if I ask questions like, did you find daddy's stash today? Or has any more child porn popped up on the computer? Or does daddy's have the neighbors 15 year old daughter still sleeping there? I mean really, he has not a pot to piss in. (no pun intended) These are things that our children came to me and told me the last couple years when they stayed there that they came across.

So, why aren't you addressing these issues with your ex? In your initial post, you didn't mention the nature of Dad's conversations with or about the children. Only that you have reason to believe they were taped. And once again, even if your daughter is telling the truth about finding the tape and what is on it, where is your proof that such tape exists?

Wow. You really turned this one around.

You say "turned it around". I say "read between the lines". Let's call the whole thing off.

I do not sense that litigation is imminent.

Do you know what "imminent" and "litigation" mean? Here's a hint:

Can he take me back to court to lower or stop my alimony?

If this ever does come to him taking me back to court. I need to understand why he is recording us, and it will be mentioned in court as to why he is doing so.

Frankly, if you don't sense that litigation is imminent, perhaps you'd better pay close attention to what daughter said about Dad's conversations with his attorney.

And I absolutely have no intentions of recording him. I have much better things to do with my time and my life. Like raise children correctly.

And justify your behavior to complete strangers on the internet.

One more time. The reason I posted on this forum is to find out one thing. I found out what I wanted to know. And I absolutely plan to do it legally. I have lived by my divorce decree and plan on not making any mistakes. That is why I am here!

Good. Welcome to the forum.

Thank you to all that was helpful in answering my question.

You are welcome.

 

[jbowman]

Whole Post.

Beautifully done. Take a bow, PP.

 

[Ohiogal]

Absolutely not! She called me to tell me about what she had found. She told me that she was disturbed about one particular conversation she had with her father. At the end of the conversation he commented after the hang up, that she was not being raised correctly because she was at her boyfriends house alone, without adult supervision and that was not at all the case.

He is entitled to his opinion. YOur daughter is sixteen. Do you believe that if she is with her boyfriend by herself that she is still a virgin? Are you absolutely 100% convinced of that?

There was adult supervision and I know that because I dropped her off there. myself and picked her up.

Oh and what about the times in between? So dad misunderstood. Yet you are painting him with a broad brush.

She actually told me that she was so upset that she was going to smash the recorder. I advised her not to. And as for her telling the truth where she found the recorder. I do not raise liars. If she said that's where she found it then that's where she found it.

That is what you wish to believe. No one said you raise liars. HOWEVER, children have been known to lie to protect themselves.

No, you are mistaken. That is not what I mentioned at all. Clarity is a mistake on your part. Read it again. Everyone else on this thread understood perfectly.

Actually no. EVERYONE did NOT understand what you believe. Hence the discussion regarding vicarious consent and several posts about you being recorded talking to the children. Quit trying to make excuses.

The part of the alimony and transportation split costs is true.

And, so?

Easy, by him reducing my alimony or terminating my alimony puts more stress on me, which in turn involves the children.

Alimony IS NOT an entitlement. Are you working? If not, time to get a job.

Try taking a pay cut and see how your life changes. Don't you think the lives of our children will change as well.

If you were financially independent you wouldn't have to worry about that.

It is court ordered through the divorce decree that has has to pay for all transportation. He agreed to that. If he is so concerned about transportation cost then maybe he should consider moving to Florida so he can be closer to our children. That's seems like the normal thing to do to me.

Okay he moves to Florida and asks that your alimony be reduced because he has to quit the job he has that is supporting you. Then what? Why dont' you move closer to him? Makes perfect sense that he would ask for a modification to split the transportation cost due to the rising cost of transportation.

FYI:He once told me that he hated me because he has to pay me child support and alimony. He also told me that he was going to make my life a living hell because he has to pay.

Oh well.

The stress of him calling these children and asking them the same questions over and over about what they ate. Did they take a shower. Did they do their homework. Where is your mother? What time did they go to bed last night? To me that is torture.

Actually that is parenting. Torture is when children are being locked in closets, whipped with a belt, burned with torches and cigarettes, bathed in bleach, being raped or molested. Get over yourself already. YOu dont' ask your children if they have done their homework? If they are being properly supervised? If they ate?

He is not having a conversation, he is having an interrogation. Where is that legal?

the question is WHERE IS THAT ILLEGAL?

How would he like it if I called there on a day to day basis and asked the children those same questions?

How about if I ask questions like, did you find daddy's stash today? Or has any more child porn popped up on the computer? Or does daddy's have the neighbors 15 year old daughter still sleeping there? I mean really, he has not a pot to piss in. (no pun intended)

If you do not UNDERSTAND and comprehend the differences in those questions then you are too mentally deficient to keep custody of your children. Plain and simple. A stash of what? Has dad used around them?

These are things that our children came to me and told me the last couple years when they stayed there that they came across.

The last couple years. And you have done nothing about it? Child porn? Really? Or was it playboy online? Is daddy sleeping with the 15 year old OR is the 15 year old visiting your sixteen year old. Is the stash prescription meds or illegal drugs? If illegal drugs did you report him to the police when you found out or ignore it?

Wow. You really turned this one around. I do not sense that litigation is imminent. And I absolutely have no intentions of recording him. I have much better things to do with my time and my life. Like raise children correctly.

Really? And what is correctly? Because if what you say is true then you have been completely and totally deficient in raising your children.

One more time. The reason I posted on this forum is to find out one thing. I found out what I wanted to know. And I absolutely plan to do it legally. I have lived by my divorce decree and plan on not making any mistakes. That is why I am here!

Hopefully you will learn a heck of lot more about the law then while you are here because you have shown a lot of ignorance.

Thank you to all that was helpful in answering my question.

Answer my questions.

 

[proud_parent]

Take a bow, PP.

*blushes*

Just running lines until the Mother Abbess could return to the set.

Back to the wings for this understudy...

 

[Silverplum]

Actually that is parenting. Torture is when children are being locked in closets, whipped with a belt, burned with torches and cigarettes, bathed in bleach, being raped or molested. Get over yourself already. YOu dont' ask your children if they have done their homework? If they are being properly supervised? If they ate?

GAWD, YES, I agree!

I get very tired of posters acting like their former spouse/current coparent is The Torturer, or that the situation is "torture," when the situation is clearly one of the basic divorces.

Learn what "torture" means. Have a little respect for those who have actually suffered "torture."

We're not teens here. We are unimpressed with hyperbole.

 

[skarys]

Quote: Sorry, but I also took this to mean that Dad was recording conversations between you and the kids (kids on one end, you on the other). I think A LOT of people took that as the meaning which is why you were getting the responses you were getting regarding dad not able to give consent for a minor in a one party state.

Why would I say that I am in Florida and he is in Rhode Island. How would he be able to tape our conversations from within my own home?

Quote: Kudos for raising a truthful child. Or should I say, for helping to raise a truthful child. After all, Dad shares joint custody.

None the above addresses why said child listened to the entirety of the tapes, by the way.

There was no help in raising these children. I can take the credit for that. Only help from him was financial.

Quote: So, why aren't you addressing these issues with your ex? In your initial post, you didn't mention the nature of Dad's conversations with or about the children. Only that you have reason to believe they were taped. And once again, even if your daughter is telling the truth about finding the tape and what is on it, where is your proof that such tape exists?

She is absolutely telling the truth about the recordings. The tape exists because she was listening to it. She was playing it while I was on the phone with her. Because she was on a cell phone I could not make out what was being said. The reason I do not address these issues with my ex is because he will not hold a normal, non demeaning conversation with me, so I no longer communicate with him.

Quote: Do you know what "imminent" and "litigation" mean? Here's a hint:

I don't appreciate being talked down to. I am not the ignorant one here.

Quote: And justify your behavior to complete strangers on the internet.

I don't need to justify "my" behavior to complete strangers on the internet. I am talking on a Free Advice Forum. What does my behavior have to do with doing so? I asked a question in hope to get a response to my question. People like you make it difficult to get answers on forums like these.

 

[jbowman]

Why would I say that I am in Florida and he is in Rhode Island. How would he be able to tape our conversations from within my own home?

.

Because, Oh Brilliant One, the kids could have been visiting at DADS in Rhode Island and calling YOU in Florida. Are you kidding me with this crap?????
Dollface, obviously EVERYONE did not understand your post so clarity was NOT a mistake on our part.

 

[escape2paradise]

Because, Oh Brilliant One, the kids could have been visiting at DADS in Rhode Island and calling YOU in Florida. Are you kidding me with this crap?????
Dollface, obviously EVERYONE did not understand your post so clarity was NOT a mistake on our part.

Exactly! OP you didn't communicate properly. I responded to you believing you were referring to conversations between YOU and the children. I assumed those conversation were recorded in dad's home while the kids were visiting and speaking with you in Florida. Not a far stretch given the wording you used.

 

[wileybunch]

Quote: Nothing you've stated up to this point demonstrates any hatred.

Easy, by him reducing my alimony or terminating my alimony puts more stress on me, which in turn involves the children. Try taking a pay cut and see how your life changes. Don't you think the lives of our children will change as well.

Alrighty then, now we are to the heart of the matter. As a matter of fact, no, I would not like my financial in flows to my bank account to be changed at any time -- unless it's upward, of course. But, then I also think I should be self sufficient and not be dependent on CS b/c it's not within my control so the advice to have several months of savings within reach for rough times comes into play so best thing I can suggest is to start to plan for this and if tightening your belt, increasing your payroll income, etc. doesn't cover any future change, then hopefully you have built up that fund to dip into. In any event, I am going to tell you I think it's terrible that your kids are in the middle of your financial issues b/c IT'S NOT THEIR PROBLEM and they shouldn't have to be concerned with it. Period. If Dad gets a pay cut -- you know, from an actual JOB -- he has to buck up, too. And, everyone will live, I suspect.

As for calling Dad's phone calls to the kids torture, you know what? You're just out of line with that. Stay out of the middle of it. Not only is it not your business, but you get to have NO opinion of it whatsoever. I love my FIL dearly, but sometimes having conversations with him can be trying and I'd rather not (he likes to tell stories about the old days, ppl I don't know, etc.) and somehow I still manage to live through it and I love this man like he was my own father.

Really, you need to examine how much you are melding your emotions and feelings with your kids, projecting, etc. Keep adult matters out of kids' hands. Your ex should not be recording phone calls, but honestly, had you never known, it's not a big deal except that maybe he found out some reason why your alimony SHOULD be reduced (ie. cohabitating -- I don't know I don't think you've answered that question another poster asked you). OTOH, I see a lot of red flags with your attitude and behaviors. Be careful how much you are pointing the finger (or at whom). Maybe you don't even realize how much animosity you are throwing into the mix in the father-child relationships, but I think several of us can see it. (now you see why I was so touchy about the MY KIDS statement of yours in the first post)

 

[Humusluvr]

I don't appreciate being talked down to. I am not the ignorant one here..

he he he. That line always cracks me up.

when the OP writes something that is unclear, people start responding, now we're all a bunch o'morons.

Just answer the questions, and get over yourself.