Extra-curricular activities

[thespecialistkc]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

I have used the search function and believe I know the answer, but want to verify. CP and I have a clause in the parenting plan that states:

"Each parent acknowledges that as each child gets older each child will become more involved in school activities and other extra-curricular activities. In the event a child has any scheduled school or extra-curricular activities on a week-night or week-end when the non-custodial parent has parenting time the non-custodial parent shall use his/her best efforts to handle each child's transportation to and from these activities. The primary physical custodial parent furthermore shall use his/her best reasonable efforts to avoid scheduling such events on the time periods scheduled for the non-custodial parent, unless he/she has attempted to reasonably confer with the non-custodial parent. The non-custodial parent's consent to such activities shall not be unreasonably withheld."

Also, for what it is worth, we have joint decision making on extra-curricular activities, with CP having ultimate tiebreaker rights.

The issue is (of course), CP is signing up the eldest lil' specialist for sports year-round, and the littler lil' specialist is beginning the same pattern. I verbally agreed to pay for half of one extra-curricular sport per child per year (and will continue to do so). Personally I think that is enough given their ages (7 and 4), athletic prowess and injuries sustained thus far. As NCP, I do not believe I am required to facilitate all activities scheduled by CP, however it is the "best efforts" language that concerns me. Yes, I could make every single practice and game during every visitation period, resulting in some very late bed-times due to geographic locations of venues versus home, as well as spending much of my visitation at activities not of my choosing.

Given the language above, am I legally justified in declining to facilitate activities scheduled by CP during my visitation time without my consent? Or at least decline those in excess of the activity I agree to and help fund?
For the record I did object and expressed my concerns but was told by CP as the NCP without tiebreaker rights my objections were dismissed and I should do as instructed. Verbally, of course, but I think my next communication will be in email form, for record keeping.

Thanks.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

I have used the search function and believe I know the answer, but want to verify. CP and I have a clause in the parenting plan that states:

"Each parent acknowledges that as each child gets older each child will become more involved in school activities and other extra-curricular activities. In the event a child has any scheduled school or extra-curricular activities on a week-night or week-end when the non-custodial parent has parenting time the non-custodial parent shall use his/her best efforts to handle each child's transportation to and from these activities. The primary physical custodial parent furthermore shall use his/her best reasonable efforts to avoid scheduling such events on the time periods scheduled for the non-custodial parent, unless he/she has attempted to reasonably confer with the non-custodial parent. The non-custodial parent's consent to such activities shall not be unreasonably withheld."

Also, for what it is worth, we have joint decision making on extra-curricular activities, with CP having ultimate tiebreaker rights.

The issue is (of course), CP is signing up the eldest lil' specialist for sports year-round, and the littler lil' specialist is beginning the same pattern. I verbally agreed to pay for half of one extra-curricular sport per child per year (and will continue to do so). Personally I think that is enough given their ages (7 and 4), athletic prowess and injuries sustained thus far. As NCP, I do not believe I am required to facilitate all activities scheduled by CP, however it is the "best efforts" language that concerns me. Yes, I could make every single practice and game during every visitation period, resulting in some very late bed-times due to geographic locations of venues versus home, as well as spending much of my visitation at activities not of my choosing.

Given the language above, am I legally justified in declining to facilitate activities scheduled by CP during my visitation time without my consent? Or at least decline those in excess of the activity I agree to and help fund?
For the record I did object and expressed my concerns but was told by CP as the NCP without tiebreaker rights my objections were dismissed and I should do as instructed. Verbally, of course, but I think my next communication will be in email form, for record keeping.

Thanks.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Your wording is pretty wishy-washy, so I'm having a hard time seeing a contempt finding from it, although with CP having tie-breaker rights, it could happen. I would suspect, then, that the court would make a decision based on what's reasonable. That is, looking at the number of activities and how long they take, the risk of injury, the nature of the activity, and so on. They would also look at the reasons for your objection.

If the kid is enrolled in 2 activities per night, 5 nights a week and is constantly getting injured in one of them, the court might well agree that dropping that activity is best. OTOH, if it's one or two activities with no more risk than the usual bumps and scrapes, the court might say that attending them is reasonable. It might also depend on your reasons for objecting. If it's because Law and Order is on Thursday nights (or whatever - I don't watch TV, so I don't know), it's not a very good reason. OTOH, if Thursday is your night to take the kids bowling to spend parenting time with them, it might.

It's really almost impossible to predict what a judge would say - certainly not for a stranger. Your attorney would probably be able to give you some guidance, but it would probably still be a guess (albeit an educated one).

Seriously? In a case like this, you need to find a way to co-parent with ex. It is almost never going to be in the child's interests for you and ex to get into a court battle over what activities the child can participate in. I would suggest a sit-down session with ex, possibly with a mediator, minister, trusted friend, someone to help you to communicate.

 

[CSO286]

Say, Misto? You can now find Law & Order on 24/7/365, depending on how many channels you have.

 

[thespecialistkc]

LOL. Watching TV is at the end of a very long list, so much so that I couldn't tell you what is on anymore. If I ever do have time, I think I will simply sleep instead; I can use that much more than watching some fake drivel designed to make me buy something.

CP and I have a stable and civil relationship, in the interest of effective co-parenting. I have visitation twice a week after work until 7pm (usually 8pm as it takes a while to get from work to CP's house), every other weekend, 2 weeks during summer vacation, alternating major holidays, etc.

The issue with the bigger lil' specialist is with the year-round pace, every weekend and holiday visitation is impacted, as there is always a game, or practice, or both. This means (if I do as CP expects), no out of town trips, no trips to grandparents (by the time activities are over it's too late to make the drive), no ability to plan my own visitation activities. Of course none of this applies to CP, who will miss activities for various reasons (deeeeep breath). With CP having tiebreaker status, I am effectively over-ruled each and every time, so the "joint" designation is basically pointless.

Also as a result of sports, bigger lil' specialist suffered a broken growth plate in foot, something that had the doctors very concerned as this can lead to long term issues. It hasn't yet (thank goodness), but is still a concern for future problems and re-injury. Yet CP continues with year round sports.

I support the children playing sports and will split the cost of and facilitate one sport per child per year. I think that is sane and acceptable and within the (albeit wishy-washy) language and spirit of our agreement at this point. I will state this (again) in writing to the CP, then stick to my guns. Anything beyond that will be CP's financial responsibility and I will not facilitate attendance during my visitation, although if a schedule can be worked around my visitation I have no objections other than the health related I stated above, and would not interfere.

I will try to find a happy medium for all, but that is difficult with a CP that interprets CP as standing for "Controlling Power", unfortunately. As suggested I will do my best to keep it civil and out of court. CP is rather lazy and full of hot air, so any blowback is usually minimal and brief.

Thanks again for the replies and ideas.

 

[mistoffolees]

If the activity is year round and occurs on holidays and prevents you from taking an out of town trip, I would doubt that a judge would order you to do it every time. If you have an out of town trip to visit Grandma (or Disneyworld, for that matter), 'best efforts' does not require you to cancel your trip.

They might, however, expect you to participate whenever possible.

 

[thespecialistkc]

If the activity is year round and occurs on holidays and prevents you from taking an out of town trip, I would doubt that a judge would order you to do it every time. If you have an out of town trip to visit Grandma (or Disneyworld, for that matter), 'best efforts' does not require you to cancel your trip.

They might, however, expect you to participate whenever possible.

100% understood and appreciated. Thanks.

 

[smommy1992]

LOL. Watching TV is at the end of a very long list, so much so that I couldn't tell you what is on anymore. If I ever do have time, I think I will simply sleep instead; I can use that much more than watching some fake drivel designed to make me buy something.

CP and I have a stable and civil relationship, in the interest of effective co-parenting. I have visitation twice a week after work until 7pm (usually 8pm as it takes a while to get from work to CP's house), every other weekend, 2 weeks during summer vacation, alternating major holidays, etc.

The issue with the bigger lil' specialist is with the year-round pace, every weekend and holiday visitation is impacted, as there is always a game, or practice, or both. This means (if I do as CP expects), no out of town trips, no trips to grandparents (by the time activities are over it's too late to make the drive), no ability to plan my own visitation activities. Of course none of this applies to CP, who will miss activities for various reasons (deeeeep breath). With CP having tiebreaker status, I am effectively over-ruled each and every time, so the "joint" designation is basically pointless.

Also as a result of sports, bigger lil' specialist suffered a broken growth plate in foot, something that had the doctors very concerned as this can lead to long term issues. It hasn't yet (thank goodness), but is still a concern for future problems and re-injury. Yet CP continues with year round sports.

I support the children playing sports and will split the cost of and facilitate one sport per child per year. I think that is sane and acceptable and within the (albeit wishy-washy) language and spirit of our agreement at this point. I will state this (again) in writing to the CP, then stick to my guns. Anything beyond that will be CP's financial responsibility and I will not facilitate attendance during my visitation, although if a schedule can be worked around my visitation I have no objections other than the health related I stated above, and would not interfere.

I will try to find a happy medium for all, but that is difficult with a CP that interprets CP as standing for "Controlling Power", unfortunately. As suggested I will do my best to keep it civil and out of court. CP is rather lazy and full of hot air, so any blowback is usually minimal and brief.

Thanks again for the replies and ideas.

Once again, you have to ask a couple (oldie but such goodie) questions....

Would the children be involved in sports and the like IF you and mom were still together? And wouldn't you be involved then without question?

Do the children enjoy playing sports and the like year round? Or is mom forcing them to play to possibly impede on your time? (which would not be a surprise if that was the case at some point)...I wish I had the "upper hand" in the end instead of having to argue with NCP about whether or not little miss can play the sport that she has been playing every year since she was 4 again this year.....

You also have to consider, wouldn't it be in the childrens best interest that you promote their playing sports and encourage it? Or argue each and every time thus putting the kids "in the middle" in the end?

 

[mistoffolees]

Once again, you have to ask a couple (oldie but such goodie) questions....

Would the children be involved in sports and the like IF you and mom were still together? And wouldn't you be involved then without question?

This question gets asked quite a bit, but IMHO, it's a meaningless question. LOTS of things have to change after a divorce. When they were living together, Dad probably saw the kids every day, got to take them on vacations, etc. With divorce, he no longer gets to see them (and vice versa) every day and his time is much more limited. So giving up the time to take them to a baseball game is one thing when married, but it's a very different thing for an NCP with limited time with the child.

 

[thespecialistkc]

Once again, you have to ask a couple (oldie but such goodie) questions....

Would the children be involved in sports and the like IF you and mom were still together? And wouldn't you be involved then without question?

Not year round, as I would most certainly put a stop to it. It's simply too much IMO for a 4 and 7 year old. When we were married I was able to mitigate to a greater degree, but now I am not. So the answers are no and by default no (not being hostile or attacking, just answering).

Do the children enjoy playing sports and the like year round? Or is mom forcing them to play to possibly impede on your time? (which would not be a surprise if that was the case at some point)...I wish I had the "upper hand" in the end instead of having to argue with NCP about whether or not little miss can play the sport that she has been playing every year since she was 4 again this year.....

When asked the 7 year old is non-committal. "Yeah it's OK". If asked which of the three sports she likes best (soccer, basketball or baseball) she answers basketball. I'm good with that and will be happy to facilitate and support a sport she likes, within reason. Although, in all fairness, athletic ability is NOT her strong suit, and never will be.... but it's fun to watch someone skipping back and forth on the court, lol

The 4 year old..... well all he knows is you get a juice box and treat at the end, so that is all he cares about. I get that, as in reality there is no "sport' in a bunch of 4 year olds running around. Most of them just mastered wiping their butts, so base running and fielder's option are great mysteries.

CP doesn't do it to be directly hostile, but uses the phrase " I did it when I was young" a lot. Great logic. It wouldn't be as bad, but CP is insistent on signing children up for sports 30 miles away either at the private school she chooses to send the children too, or near our old marriage neighborhood. Nevermind the fact we now live approx. 10 mins apart from each other, in an area full of excellent Rec. League sports and teams. One would think common sense would prevail, but alas, no.

CP very much lives through the children and derives much self status and validation from what others say about the children. So obviously if the kids are doing everything under the sun and are everywhere super extra fantastic parenting must be the cause!!! Classic narcissistic parent, but that is another discussion for another day on another forum, perhaps with libations.

You also have to consider, wouldn't it be in the childrens best interest that you promote their playing sports and encourage it? Or argue each and every time thus putting the kids "in the middle" in the end?

100% agree, and have no intention of taking this to court (unless MAJOR escalation occurs - doubtful), but wanted to elicit some thoughts and opinions. I will send an email detailing my objections. In all honesty the situation will most likely resolve itself, as CP is expecting in the next month or so with her new hubby. If history is any indication, for the 3 years immediately after delivery, all non-infant/toddler-based activities will grind to a halt. Sad but true.

Thanks again for the replies. It keeps me thinking and learning.

 

[smommy1992]

Not year round, as I would most certainly put a stop to it. It's simply too much IMO for a 4 and 7 year old. When we were married I was able to mitigate to a greater degree, but now I am not. So the answers are no and by default no (not being hostile or attacking, just answering).



When asked the 7 year old is non-committal. "Yeah it's OK". If asked which of the three sports she likes best (soccer, basketball or baseball) she answers basketball. I'm good with that and will be happy to facilitate and support a sport she likes, within reason. Although, in all fairness, athletic ability is NOT her strong suit, and never will be.... but it's fun to watch someone skipping back and forth on the court, lol

The 4 year old..... well all he knows is you get a juice box and treat at the end, so that is all he cares about. I get that, as in reality there is no "sport' in a bunch of 4 year olds running around. Most of them just mastered wiping their butts, so base running and fielder's option are great mysteries.

CP doesn't do it to be directly hostile, but uses the phrase " I did it when I was young" a lot. Great logic. It wouldn't be as bad, but CP is insistent on signing children up for sports 30 miles away either at the private school she chooses to send the children too, or near our old marriage neighborhood. Nevermind the fact we now live approx. 10 mins apart from each other, in an area full of excellent Rec. League sports and teams. One would think common sense would prevail, but alas, no.

CP very much lives through the children and derives much self status and validation from what others say about the children. So obviously if the kids are doing everything under the sun and are everywhere super extra fantastic parenting must be the cause!!! Classic narcissistic parent, but that is another discussion for another day on another forum, perhaps with libations.



100% agree, and have no intention of taking this to court (unless MAJOR escalation occurs - doubtful), but wanted to elicit some thoughts and opinions. I will send an email detailing my objections. In all honesty the situation will most likely resolve itself, as CP is expecting in the next month or so with her new hubby. If history is any indication, for the 3 years immediately after delivery, all non-infant/toddler-based activities will grind to a halt. Sad but true.

Thanks again for the replies. It keeps me thinking and learning.

Year round for the age of the children really is not necessary. One sport or activity at a time or just stick to one in particular.
I played 2 sports as a kid. However, my daughter only likes one of the two I played. Do I push that she plays the other just because I did? Nope!
Yes, you may be right that when CP has another child, your 2 children may not be so involved in much. And if it truly does turn out to matter to them, it wont be fair if they turn out to like what activity they do and mom puts a stop to it because she has other "things" going on.
Good luck to you though. Sounds like you are doing the best you can.

 

[thespecialistkc]

Year round for the age of the children really is not necessary. One sport or activity at a time or just stick to one in particular.
I played 2 sports as a kid. However, my daughter only likes one of the two I played. Do I push that she plays the other just because I did? Nope!
Yes, you may be right that when CP has another child, your 2 children may not be so involved in much. And if it truly does turn out to matter to them, it wont be fair if they turn out to like what activity they do and mom puts a stop to it because she has other "things" going on.
Good luck to you though. Sounds like you are doing the best you can.

Thanks! I'll continue to do my best. And if that does happen to my kids I'll simply make it up with a raspberry on the tummy and smiles n hugs. And maybe some trips to Skate Country (there's no fun like roller skating fun, so they say). Because that's what Daddies should do, IMO. Thanks again.

 

[LdiJ]

This question gets asked quite a bit, but IMHO, it's a meaningless question. LOTS of things have to change after a divorce. When they were living together, Dad probably saw the kids every day, got to take them on vacations, etc. With divorce, he no longer gets to see them (and vice versa) every day and his time is much more limited. So giving up the time to take them to a baseball game is one thing when married, but it's a very different thing for an NCP with limited time with the child.

While I do understand your point of view very well, It also confuses me to some extent. Sports was one very significant thing that my ex and our daughter did together. It was quality time for them. He usually coached or otherwise actively participated.

I also am of the personal opinion that children have to give up so much when there is a divorce (in most families) that its a bit unfair to make them give up their activities as well. I do happen to think its wrong to take that part of their "normalcy" away from them.

However, I think that the "spirit" of OP's orders is that he is to facilitate participation within reason. So I agree that things like letting the sport interrupt holiday visitation (when one would be more likely to travel out of town) and things like that would not be expected by a judge.

 

[mistoffolees]

While I do understand your point of view very well, It also confuses me to some extent. Sports was one very significant thing that my ex and our daughter did together. It was quality time for them. He usually coached or otherwise actively participated.

I also am of the personal opinion that children have to give up so much when there is a divorce (in most families) that its a bit unfair to make them give up their activities as well. I do happen to think its wrong to take that part of their "normalcy" away from them.

Regardless, it is unrealistic to think that just because a kid does certain activities while the parents are married means that they can continue the same activities after divorce.

Dad may choose to spend the time doing other things - and that's his right.

 

[I'mTheFather]

"Normalcy" for the kids while OP was married did not include the multiple sports.

How long ago was the order written? How much older have these kids gotten since then?

 

[LdiJ]

Regardless, it is unrealistic to think that just because a kid does certain activities while the parents are married means that they can continue the same activities after divorce.

Dad may choose to spend the time doing other things - and that's his right.

Of course that is his right. The question is whether or not that is in the best interests of his children. I am quite certain that you would never have curtailed an activity that your daughter was truly into. Heck not only do I know that your wouldn't have curtailed it, but you would have actively participated in it.

Even more, I am 100% certain that if your daughter got into a new activity NOW that took a lot of time, that you would STILL actively participate in it rather than curtail it, even if it wasn't your idea.