+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    eringrace is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16

    Father not seeing kids

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Louisiana

    I have a question that I hope someone can help me with. I have a visitation agreement with my ex husband that states we are to give each other 2 weeks notice if we are going on a business or personal trip that will effect our time with the kids (they live with me, visit him every other weekend), or that person is responsible for finding care for the kids. He is constantly in violation of this. Today he emailed me to tell me that he will be out of town on the weekend of the 10th and he'll "get with me" about making up the time. Now, I've been quiet before about this and just accepted it, but it seems that he is taking advantage of that... he misses more weekends with them then he sees them because he "has to go out of town" all the time. When I say "ok, you can take them the following weekend then" He'll come back with "oh I'll be out of town that weekend too" Today I responded with "Since it is within my discretion regarding making up time, especially when you don't give the required 2 weeks notice, you can take them this weekend" (the agreement says make up time is at the discretion and decision of the petitioner which is me). I really wouldn't make much of it, but my husband and I already have plans for the weekend of the 10th that we will now have to cancel and although that isn't a big deal, it does annoy me that it is my ex-husband's weekend and he just decides when he will or won't see his kids with no regard for anyone else - does that make sense? Anyway, he came back with a nice cursing out, telling me what a b*tch I am and that he doesn't have to do a da*n thing he doesn't want to do, etc and so forth. How would you handle this situation? Should I just drop it?

    Thanks.
  2. #2
    CSO286 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Once upon a time, far, far, away...
    Posts
    5,338
    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Louisiana

    I have a question that I hope someone can help me with. I have a visitation agreement with my ex husband that states we are to give each other 2 weeks notice if we are going on a business or personal trip that will effect our time with the kids (they live with me, visit him every other weekend), or that person is responsible for finding care for the kids. He is constantly in violation of this. Today he emailed me to tell me that he will be out of town on the weekend of the 10th and he'll "get with me" about making up the time. Now, I've been quiet before about this and just accepted it, but it seems that he is taking advantage of that... he misses more weekends with them then he sees them because he "has to go out of town" all the time. When I say "ok, you can take them the following weekend then" He'll come back with "oh I'll be out of town that weekend too" Today I responded with "Since it is within my discretion regarding making up time, especially when you don't give the required 2 weeks notice, you can take them this weekend" (the agreement says make up time is at the discretion and decision of the petitioner which is me). I really wouldn't make much of it, but my husband and I already have plans for the weekend of the 10th that we will now have to cancel and although that isn't a big deal, it does annoy me that it is my ex-husband's weekend and he just decides when he will or won't see his kids with no regard for anyone else - does that make sense? Anyway, he came back with a nice cursing out, telling me what a b*tch I am and that he doesn't have to do a da*n thing he doesn't want to do, etc and so forth. How would you handle this situation? Should I just drop it?

    Thanks.
    I'd enjoy the extra time. OR see if the Grands want some time with the kids.

    As a custodial parent, you have the responsibility of enssuring the children are available should the NCP choose to exercise his/her right to parenting time.

    These are two very different things. It means that the CP will be inconvenienced if the NCP chooses not to see the kids.

    You cannot force the NCP to use the time....
  3. #3
    Antigone* is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In honor of JetX ~ Somnambulist University
    Posts
    21,221
    Quote Originally Posted by CSO286 View Post
    I'd enjoy the extra time. OR see if the Grands want some time with the kids.

    As a custodial parent, you have the responsibility of enssuring the children are available should the NCP choose to exercise his/her right to parenting time.

    These are two very different things. It means that the CP will be inconvenienced if the NCP chooses not to see the kids.

    You cannot force the NCP to use the time....
    Ditto that.
  4. #4
    mistoffolees is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    21,315
    Quote Originally Posted by CSO286 View Post
    I'd enjoy the extra time. OR see if the Grands want some time with the kids.

    As a custodial parent, you have the responsibility of enssuring the children are available should the NCP choose to exercise his/her right to parenting time.

    These are two very different things. It means that the CP will be inconvenienced if the NCP chooses not to see the kids.

    You cannot force the NCP to use the time....
    Ordinarily, I'd agree 100%. However, OP claims that the visitation agreement says:
    "I have a visitation agreement with my ex husband that states we are to give each other 2 weeks notice if we are going on a business or personal trip that will effect our time with the kids, or that person is responsible for finding care for the kids."

    Now, that would be a pretty strange agreement, but I've seen stranger things. If it really does say that, then it might be NCP's obligation to pay for child care.

    OP:

    1. Was this agreement signed by a judge?
    2. Please give us the exact wording of that part of the agreement - word for word but without names.
  5. #5
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    65,483
    Quote Originally Posted by mistoffolees View Post
    Ordinarily, I'd agree 100%. However, OP claims that the visitation agreement says:
    "I have a visitation agreement with my ex husband that states we are to give each other 2 weeks notice if we are going on a business or personal trip that will effect our time with the kids, or that person is responsible for finding care for the kids."

    Now, that would be a pretty strange agreement, but I've seen stranger things. If it really does say that, then it might be NCP's obligation to pay for child care.

    OP:

    1. Was this agreement signed by a judge?
    2. Please give us the exact wording of that part of the agreement - word for word but without names.
    You are seeing it the way I am seeing it as well.

    I have actually seen a few custody decrees written that way. Its usually something that a judge adds in later because there have been problems with one parent upsetting the other parent's employment by not exercising their time, but I could see an attorney automatically including that wording if they had previous clients with similar circumstances.
  6. #6
    eringrace is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by mistoffolees View Post
    Ordinarily, I'd agree 100%. However, OP claims that the visitation agreement says:
    "I have a visitation agreement with my ex husband that states we are to give each other 2 weeks notice if we are going on a business or personal trip that will effect our time with the kids, or that person is responsible for finding care for the kids."

    Now, that would be a pretty strange agreement, but I've seen stranger things. If it really does say that, then it might be NCP's obligation to pay for child care.

    OP:

    1. Was this agreement signed by a judge?
    2. Please give us the exact wording of that part of the agreement - word for word but without names.
    It says "If either party has a business or personal trip scheduled on a week that would normally involve their time with the children, they must notify the other party at least 2 weeks in advance. If advanced notification is not given as outlined, that party will be responsible for securing alternative child care for the children, to be approved by both parties." And yes, it's signed by the judge and filed with the court.

    But even with that, he basically tells me to go to h*ll. He cursed me out and said "bring me to court". It's not even worth it to me to argue with him at this point. He's a control freak who doesn't give a fig about his relationship with his kids.

    Interestingly, I just received a call from my daughter's school counselor saying she came to see that lady and told her that she doesn't really want to see her dad anymore because he doesn't care about her or love her (she's 10). whenever the kids go over there (ages 14 and 10) he basically ignores them while he is on the phone with friends and "clients". He has the right to see them during the week but never exercises that, even though he only lives 10 minutes away. He hasn't been to any of their sports or school events in 4 years. My daughter calls my current husband "dad" and told the counselor that her stepdad loves her more then her real dad. (Counselor suggested that I take her a counselor outside of the school as well, and I'm waiting for a call back from my insurance company for a referral). Basically my ex husband is a "deadbeat dad" - even with regards to child support which he is petitioning the court once again for a reduction. He's really more of a negative influence in their lives then a positive one.

    And what's bad is that if I just said "scr*w you, you'll see the kids again when I decide you can", then I'd get in trouble.

    But thank you for letting me vent here.
  7. #7
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    53,449
    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    He cursed me out and said "bring me to court".
    Yes, that is your remedy. You have to take him to court for contempt.

    And what's bad is that if I just said "scr*w you, you'll see the kids again when I decide you can", then I'd get in trouble.
    That "trouble" would be him taking you to court for contempt.


    It works both ways.
  8. #8
    mistoffolees is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    21,315
    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    It says "If either party has a business or personal trip scheduled on a week that would normally involve their time with the children, they must notify the other party at least 2 weeks in advance. If advanced notification is not given as outlined, that party will be responsible for securing alternative child care for the children, to be approved by both parties." And yes, it's signed by the judge and filed with the court.
    Then if ex leaves town and you get stuck with child care expense for the time that he would otherwise be his time, you could take him for court for contempt.

    However, you have a problem. "to be approved by both parties" is going to make it difficult if Dad refuses to agree to someone. You're going to have to prove that you offered him a variety of reasonable options and he refused. Even better, if you ask him to make a proposal and he refuses. In the end, you can probably win, but it won't be as easy as if that clause weren't there.

    One thing, though. Dad has EOW. if you're not working weekends, this shouldn't be an issue since you wouldn't need child care. If you choose to go out on a date or go out with your friends and want someone to watch the kids, Dad can probably argue that he shouldn't have to pay for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    But even with that, he basically tells me to go to h*ll. He cursed me out and said "bring me to court". It's not even worth it to me to argue with him at this point. He's a control freak who doesn't give a fig about his relationship with his kids.
    Nothing you can do about that. Ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    Interestingly, I just received a call from my daughter's school counselor saying she came to see that lady and told her that she doesn't really want to see her dad anymore because he doesn't care about her or love her (she's 10). whenever the kids go over there (ages 14 and 10) he basically ignores them while he is on the phone with friends and "clients". He has the right to see them during the week but never exercises that, even though he only lives 10 minutes away. He hasn't been to any of their sports or school events in 4 years. My daughter calls my current husband "dad" and told the counselor that her stepdad loves her more then her real dad. (Counselor suggested that I take her a counselor outside of the school as well, and I'm waiting for a call back from my insurance company for a referral). Basically my ex husband is a "deadbeat dad" - even with regards to child support which he is petitioning the court once again for a reduction. He's really more of a negative influence in their lives then a positive one.
    There's no law that says he has to be a good dad. If he wants to exercise his court ordered visitation, you have to allow it whether the child wants to go or not. And the fact that he doesn't go to school activities doesn't change that.

    He's a craptastic dad. Nothing you can do about it but be the best mom you can be and make sure your daughter knows that you love her. And consider counseling for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    And what's bad is that if I just said "scr*w you, you'll see the kids again when I decide you can", then I'd get in trouble.
    Actually, you wouldn't. Simply saying "scr*w you, you'll see the kids when I decide you can" isn't something that he can do much with. It's only if you follow through on that threat that you would get into trouble.
  9. #9
    TinkerBelleLuvr is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    With Capt'n Hook
    Posts
    11,353
    Then go to court and file a show cause. Do you have documentation of how much time dad has missed? I can see that your state does base support on income. I'm having difficulty finding out if it is also based on time share. They normally have support based on standard. You can argue that support shouldn't be reduced because he only has the children (you figure out the percentage of the time) rather than standard.

    As for counseling, it will help your daughter cope with dad.
  10. #10
    eringrace is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    Yes, he IS a craptastic dad. Luckily my current husband is very much involved in the kids' lives, supports them, loves them and shows them what it means to have a stable family life. But my daughter, who was always a daddy's girl, took the divorce hard, and the fact that dad always seemed to be more interested in women or "building his business" then in her, hurts her deeply. She has alot of inner anger issues that have been addressed in counseling before and it looks like it will be a continuous process. The ex husband does not see, nor does he care about any of this. He blames others for his relationship with his kids - actually blames the child support system because he has to work in order to pay his support, so he doesn't have time with his kids. Blames me because I allow the kids to join sports - even tried to suggest that I was the one who set the game schedules to interrupt his life. And unfortunately, like you've said, the courts can not make him be a good father.

    As for the violation of the agreement, he is constantly in contempt of various parts of it. But I don't think it's really worth it to go running to the court every five minutes when they will most likely only slap him on the wrist... he actually missed a hearing for child support once and they put a warrant out for him, that they retracted when he decided to show up a week later - no fine, nothing.

    I feel bad for my kids, but I know I can't really force anything (and HE knows it, that's why he keeps pushing it). I do keep a record of his "missed" visitation, but I don't think it falls into the category where it would make much of a difference in child support.

    I guess I'm just a frustrated mom. It would be so much better for the kids if he just went away completely.
  11. #11
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Silver Cliff, CO
    Posts
    25,647
    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    Yes, he IS a craptastic dad. Luckily my current husband is very much involved in the kids' lives, supports them, loves them and shows them what it means to have a stable family life. But my daughter, who was always a daddy's girl, took the divorce hard, and the fact that dad always seemed to be more interested in women or "building his business" then in her, hurts her deeply. She has alot of inner anger issues that have been addressed in counseling before and it looks like it will be a continuous process. The ex husband does not see, nor does he care about any of this. He blames others for his relationship with his kids - actually blames the child support system because he has to work in order to pay his support, so he doesn't have time with his kids. Blames me because I allow the kids to join sports - even tried to suggest that I was the one who set the game schedules to interrupt his life. And unfortunately, like you've said, the courts can not make him be a good father.

    As for the violation of the agreement, he is constantly in contempt of various parts of it. But I don't think it's really worth it to go running to the court every five minutes when they will most likely only slap him on the wrist... he actually missed a hearing for child support once and they put a warrant out for him, that they retracted when he decided to show up a week later - no fine, nothing.

    I feel bad for my kids, but I know I can't really force anything (and HE knows it, that's why he keeps pushing it). I do keep a record of his "missed" visitation, but I don't think it falls into the category where it would make much of a difference in child support.

    I guess I'm just a frustrated mom. It would be so much better for the kids if he just went away completely.
    You're well on your way to your dream.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    It says "If either party has a business or personal trip scheduled on a week that would normally involve their time with the children, they must notify the other party at least 2 weeks in advance. If advanced notification is not given as outlined, that party will be responsible for securing alternative child care for the children, to be approved by both parties." And yes, it's signed by the judge and filed with the court.

    But even with that, he basically tells me to go to h*ll. He cursed me out and said "bring me to court". It's not even worth it to me to argue with him at this point. He's a control freak who doesn't give a fig about his relationship with his kids.

    Interestingly, I just received a call from my daughter's school counselor saying she came to see that lady and told her that she doesn't really want to see her dad anymore because he doesn't care about her or love her (she's 10). whenever the kids go over there (ages 14 and 10) he basically ignores them while he is on the phone with friends and "clients". He has the right to see them during the week but never exercises that, even though he only lives 10 minutes away. He hasn't been to any of their sports or school events in 4 years. My daughter calls my current husband "dad" and told the counselor that her stepdad loves her more then her real dad. (Counselor suggested that I take her a counselor outside of the school as well, and I'm waiting for a call back from my insurance company for a referral). Basically my ex husband is a "deadbeat dad" - even with regards to child support which he is petitioning the court once again for a reduction. He's really more of a negative influence in their lives then a positive one.

    And what's bad is that if I just said "scr*w you, you'll see the kids again when I decide you can", then I'd get in trouble.

    But thank you for letting me vent here.
    Yes, because that's just why we're here.
  12. #12
    eringrace is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    I did email him separately (not regarding the weekend situation) to tell him what the counselor told me. I gave him her phone number in case he wanted to call her. He came back telling me to mind my own business, that I'm fixated on him (?), and his relationship with our daughter is fine, he doesn't care what a "stupid shrink" says. So much for co-parenting. Whenever there is a situation like this, or even if I just text or email to inform him about how one of the kids did in school, etc, he somehow turns it around to be a fight between him and I, and truly, if I didn't have kids with him I wouldn't even know nor care at this point where he lived, so I don't know where he gets the idea that I'm "fixated" on him.

    I know the courts can't really do anything about visitation, but if my kids are needing counseling because of his behavior, etc (my son has needed it in the past for burying his anger and it coming out in destructive ways, and my daughter obviously needs it), can that be brought up and he be made to attend some kind of parenting class? I don't really know what to do in such a situation. I can deal with him bad mouthing me, but the effect his behavior has on the children is obviously not good. Has anyone had to deal with this sort of thing before? Did counseling alone help the children as they grew?

    (Today is not a good day, sorry for all the questions)
  13. #13
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Silver Cliff, CO
    Posts
    25,647
    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace View Post
    I did email him separately (not regarding the weekend situation) to tell him what the counselor told me. I gave him her phone number in case he wanted to call her. He came back telling me to mind my own business, that I'm fixated on him (?), and his relationship with our daughter is fine, he doesn't care what a "stupid shrink" says. So much for co-parenting.
    Are you under the impression that "co-parenting" means that whenever you speak, he agrees and obeys?

    Common misconception.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace
    Whenever there is a situation like this, or even if I just text or email to inform him about how one of the kids did in school, etc, he somehow turns it around to be a fight between him and I, and truly, if I didn't have kids with him I wouldn't even know nor care at this point where he lived, so I don't know where he gets the idea that I'm "fixated" on him.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace
    I know the courts can't really do anything about visitation, but
    The combo of those two bolded words always mean that the poster does NOT know and does NOT accept facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace
    if my kids are needing counseling because of his behavior, etc (my son has needed it in the past for burying his anger and it coming out in destructive ways, and my daughter obviously needs it), can that be brought up and he be made to attend some kind of parenting class?
    You can request the court that he must take a parenting class. If you are successful, the court will order you to take the exact same class.

    Quote Originally Posted by eringrace
    I don't really know what to do in such a situation. I can deal with him bad mouthing me, but the effect his behavior has on the children is obviously not good. Has anyone had to deal with this sort of thing before? Did counseling alone help the children as they grew?

    (Today is not a good day, sorry for all the questions)
  14. #14
    mariasusa is offline Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    154
    The only other options I can see is co-parent counseling. I don't know if LA is into ordering co-parent counseling when their are family issues. (I live in CA and it is very popular if one parent requests it). I am in coparent counseling, with someone who specializes in divorce/kids conflict situations, and she is really good at helping dad and I focus on what is in our childs best interests (and trust me, we have VERY different ideas). However, because your ex is clearly not interested, it would have to be court ordered AND a skilled coparent counselor or it would just be a lot of conflict.

    Also, maybe your daughters counselor will decide at some point (with permission from your daughter of course) to pull dad in for a session. Who knows.

    It sounds very painful and frustrating - watching our children suffer is the worst - but really the best you can do (besides possibly taking legal action for contempt) is take as best care of yourself and your family as possible and teach your children to do the same - counseling, and a lot of self care.
  15. #15
    eringrace is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    Silverplum - no, I think co-parenting is the parents working together to find a solution for problems, and keeping each other abreast of situations, etc. I was trying to keep him in the loop of what is currently going on with our daughter, and he went off on some tangent (to which I didn't respond because that is only his way of baiting me into a fight). This is normally how things go between us. I'll tell him "son has open house at school tonight at 6", his response is "I don't need you to tell me things!" (although he didn't know about open house in the first place). It's very frustrating, but I do try to keep him informed of things regardless (maybe that's why he thinks I'm "fixated"?)

    Mariasusa - I'm not sure about co-parenting classes in LA, how they work. I'm sure they would order both parties to attend, to which I have no problem (maybe I'm doing something wrong too that I can't see and can learn from it). I'm just not sure how they are ordered - if one party can request it or not. I've searched online but can't find specifics. I do believe the DA's office (child enforcement division) would be able to tell me if I call them tomorrow.

    With the contempt, I believe I will just continue to keep track of things (his missed weekends and lack of notification) and if it ever gets to a point where it is out of hand, I'll file a motion for contempt.

    Thank you.

Similar Threads

  1. When the kids are with their father
    By forhope123 in forum Child Custody & Visitation
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-13-2010, 08:10 PM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-18-2010, 02:11 PM
  3. Father gets to see kids
    By flygrl in forum Child Custody & Visitation
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-12-2005, 07:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

© 1995-2012 Advice Company, All Rights Reserved

FreeAdvice® has been providing millions of consumers with outstanding advice, free, since 1995. While not a substitute for personal advice from a licensed professional, it is available AS IS, subject to our Disclaimer and Terms & Conditions Of Use.