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Father seeking primary custody - needing opinions/advice

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chataine

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
North Carolina

My fiance is about to move begin a custody case. He wanted some advice, so I'm writing this on his behalf. Before I get the "why are you interferring and not letting the dad handle this" spiel, let me assure you that he is pushing forward in this, and I'm just backing him up. I'm working only part time right now, so I have more time to research this stuff for him, and then give him what info I turn up. :)

He has two children from a previous marriage, ages 6 and 8. She left him for another man (whose name henceforth is Paramour, lol). She moved in with Paramour prior to the divorce, and used Paramour's home address on her divorce papers. The divorce took place 6 months after she left my fiance, so she lied about the separation date, stating it was 6 months sooner than it was. The divorce was settled outside of court, and regarding custody it stated that the parents would work together to seek the best interests of the children - very vague and open to interpretation, but also clearly including both parents.

She lived nearby and my fiance got to see them frequently for a while, but then she started to wean him out of their lives, by agreeing to less and less time, and coming up with random excuses as to why they couldn't come see him. Paramour got fired, and his house was foreclosed, so they bought a house in her name, then a year later he still didn't have a job, so he joined the Army. They moved to the other side of the country (literally) less than 6 months ago. The mom is now being very stringent with both visitation and information. The older child has medical issues that require surgery a couple of times a year. After his most recently surgery while living locally, a couple days after, the child was in "too much pain" to come visit his father for the day, but a couple days after that she put him in the car and drove him across the country (again, I'm being literal) over the course of a week, while he was still in the recovery process. She has not only scheduled the surgery for the middle of the summer (when their dad was supposed to get them), she also won't release any info to the dad about who the doctor is or any medical information. At the doctor they saw before moving out of state, she had listed herself as the only legal guardian, so we can't even find out where they sent his medical transcripts to. Nothing about the kids gets relayed to their dad, unless the mom has her own motive to tell him.

In addition, the mom is, we feel, psychologically abusing the children. She has told them that their dad didn't want to be their dad anymore, so she found them a "new dad" in essence. The kids are not allowed to call their father "dad," and must refer to him by his first name, while they are required to call Paramour (who mom eventually married) "dad." She has the children believing that their last name is that of their step-dad's, even thought that is bull. If the children spend any time with their dad, the mom/Paramour specifically do something the kids wanted to do or go somewhere they had promised to take them, to try to make the children regret going to their dad's. She tells the kids stories about how the dad kicked the kids out of the house and they were "banging on the garage door," but the dad wouldn't let them back in (which is false). She has told the dad that in her will, she has named the Paramour their guardian in the event of her death (not legal, I'm sure, but just shows what kind of woman she is). When they visited for a week, she gave them each cell phones for them to call her; when they were questioned as to why they called their mom every hour or so, they in essence told us they had to so their mom would be "ok" without them -- she has placed the responsibility for her emotional state on two young children! The list goes on, but she basically manipulates them, guilts them, lies to them, and places great amounts of stress on their shoulders. The older child has anxiety (he starts vomiting profusely when it's time to leave his dad's house to go back to his mom's), and the younger child has a stuttering problem (stress-releated, I believe).

Because of all this, and the greatly restricted visitation and information that the mom is allowing, their dad has decided to go for primary custody. He wants to be as fair as possible though -- he has said that if the kids prefer to go to their old school, he would want them to be with their mom for pretty much all of the time they have off school (spring break, all summer, every other Christmas). If they would be open to being homeschooled, and the mom would cooperate in instructing them, he would be open to something more like 50/50 physical custody, as long as the military doesn't take them out of the country. The dad has the option of working from home, so he would be able to do this if it was an agreeable option all the way around. The mom is estranged from her family, so the kids don't get to see their grandparents or extended family on her side; the dad's family lives near the mom's family, and if the dad had them for an extended period of time, he would make sure they could spend time with and develop relationships with relatives on both his and her side.

So in summary, here are the grounds that we feel would be important to the case:
--Stability - mom and Paramour have moved the kids around a lot post-divorce, and being in the military, that's likely to continue (even, she had mentioned, internationally). Dad has owned and lived in in the same house since well before the divorce, and won't uproot the kids. In addition, mom moved them out of the house at the time of separation, and into Paramour's house within 6 months of each other. The dad and I do not live together, and won't until we're married, and we have been very careful in gauging the children's acceptance of our relationship in general.
--Financial - mom and paramour have both been out of work, had a house foreclosed on, etc, and have been generally in financial straits, while dad has a good job, nice home, and can more than provide for the children.
--Psychological abuse - in mom's attempt to turn the kids against the dad, she hurts the kids. She has confused them about their identity and the identity of their father. She does things to spite the kids if they spend time with dad.
--Character - the mom lied about the separation date in the divorce papers, cheated, moved her kids in with her lover before the divorce, is being stingy with the kids and information regarding them, and doesn't seem to have the kids' best interests at heart. The dad wants to work toward a fair custody situation, is willing to include the mom in matters regarding the children, has never badmouthed the mother in front of the children, and really wants a solution that is in the best interests of his kids.

All that (wow, didn't mean to write that much!) to say, what are y'all's opinions on the situation? Are there sufficient grounds, from a legal standpoint, to seek primary custody? Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the matter? Both of us are trying to be very careful to look at the situation objectively and in the best interests of the children, rather than take the "push forward just because he wants his kids" mentality. He has tried to work this out one-on-one with his ex, but just just gets irrate and starts shouting. So, any thoughts on where to go with this, from someone on the outside of the situation, would be appreciated.

Sorry for writing a mini-novel, and thank you in advance!
~cWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Antigone*

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
North Carolina

My fiance is about to move begin a custody case. He wanted some advice, so I'm writing this on his behalf. Before I get the "why are you interferring and not letting the dad handle this" spiel, let me assure you that he is pushing forward in this, and I'm just backing him up. I'm working only part time right now, so I have more time to research this stuff for him, and then give him what info I turn up. :)

He has two children from a previous marriage, ages 6 and 8. She left him for another man (whose name henceforth is Paramour, lol). She moved in with Paramour prior to the divorce, and used Paramour's home address on her divorce papers. The divorce took place 6 months after she left my fiance, so she lied about the separation date, stating it was 6 months sooner than it was. The divorce was settled outside of court, and regarding custody it stated that the parents would work together to seek the best interests of the children - very vague and open to interpretation, but also clearly including both parents.

She lived nearby and my fiance got to see them frequently for a while, but then she started to wean him out of their lives, by agreeing to less and less time, and coming up with random excuses as to why they couldn't come see him. Paramour got fired, and his house was foreclosed, so they bought a house in her name, then a year later he still didn't have a job, so he joined the Army. They moved to the other side of the country (literally) less than 6 months ago. The mom is now being very stringent with both visitation and information. The older child has medical issues that require surgery a couple of times a year. After his most recently surgery while living locally, a couple days after, the child was in "too much pain" to come visit his father for the day, but a couple days after that she put him in the car and drove him across the country (again, I'm being literal) over the course of a week, while he was still in the recovery process. She has not only scheduled the surgery for the middle of the summer (when their dad was supposed to get them), she also won't release any info to the dad about who the doctor is or any medical information. At the doctor they saw before moving out of state, she had listed herself as the only legal guardian, so we can't even find out where they sent his medical transcripts to. Nothing about the kids gets relayed to their dad, unless the mom has her own motive to tell him.

In addition, the mom is, we feel, psychologically abusing the children. She has told them that their dad didn't want to be their dad anymore, so she found them a "new dad" in essence. The kids are not allowed to call their father "dad," and must refer to him by his first name, while they are required to call Paramour (who mom eventually married) "dad." She has the children believing that their last name is that of their step-dad's, even thought that is bull. If the children spend any time with their dad, the mom/Paramour specifically do something the kids wanted to do or go somewhere they had promised to take them, to try to make the children regret going to their dad's. She tells the kids stories about how the dad kicked the kids out of the house and they were "banging on the garage door," but the dad wouldn't let them back in (which is false). She has told the dad that in her will, she has named the Paramour their guardian in the event of her death (not legal, I'm sure, but just shows what kind of woman she is). When they visited for a week, she gave them each cell phones for them to call her; when they were questioned as to why they called their mom every hour or so, they in essence told us they had to so their mom would be "ok" without them -- she has placed the responsibility for her emotional state on two young children! The list goes on, but she basically manipulates them, guilts them, lies to them, and places great amounts of stress on their shoulders. The older child has anxiety (he starts vomiting profusely when it's time to leave his dad's house to go back to his mom's), and the younger child has a stuttering problem (stress-releated, I believe).

Because of all this, and the greatly restricted visitation and information that the mom is allowing, their dad has decided to go for primary custody. He wants to be as fair as possible though -- he has said that if the kids prefer to go to their old school, he would want them to be with their mom for pretty much all of the time they have off school (spring break, all summer, every other Christmas). If they would be open to being homeschooled, and the mom would cooperate in instructing them, he would be open to something more like 50/50 physical custody, as long as the military doesn't take them out of the country. The dad has the option of working from home, so he would be able to do this if it was an agreeable option all the way around. The mom is estranged from her family, so the kids don't get to see their grandparents or extended family on her side; the dad's family lives near the mom's family, and if the dad had them for an extended period of time, he would make sure they could spend time with and develop relationships with relatives on both his and her side.

So in summary, here are the grounds that we feel would be important to the case:
--Stability - mom and Paramour have moved the kids around a lot post-divorce, and being in the military, that's likely to continue (even, she had mentioned, internationally). Dad has owned and lived in in the same house since well before the divorce, and won't uproot the kids. In addition, mom moved them out of the house at the time of separation, and into Paramour's house within 6 months of each other. The dad and I do not live together, and won't until we're married, and we have been very careful in gauging the children's acceptance of our relationship in general.
--Financial - mom and paramour have both been out of work, had a house foreclosed on, etc, and have been generally in financial straits, while dad has a good job, nice home, and can more than provide for the children.
--Psychological abuse - in mom's attempt to turn the kids against the dad, she hurts the kids. She has confused them about their identity and the identity of their father. She does things to spite the kids if they spend time with dad.
--Character - the mom lied about the separation date in the divorce papers, cheated, moved her kids in with her lover before the divorce, is being stingy with the kids and information regarding them, and doesn't seem to have the kids' best interests at heart. The dad wants to work toward a fair custody situation, is willing to include the mom in matters regarding the children, has never badmouthed the mother in front of the children, and really wants a solution that is in the best interests of his kids.

All that (wow, didn't mean to write that much!) to say, what are y'all's opinions on the situation? Are there sufficient grounds, from a legal standpoint, to seek primary custody? Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the matter? Both of us are trying to be very careful to look at the situation objectively and in the best interests of the children, rather than take the "push forward just because he wants his kids" mentality. He has tried to work this out one-on-one with his ex, but just just gets irrate and starts shouting. So, any thoughts on where to go with this, from someone on the outside of the situation, would be appreciated.

Sorry for writing a mini-novel, and thank you in advance!
~cWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
For someone on the outside you sure you WE alot:rolleyes:.

Change in custody does not seem likely. No change in circumstance for the children.
 

chataine

Junior Member
For someone on the outside you sure you WE alot:rolleyes:.

Change in custody does not seem likely. No change in circumstance for the children.
lol. We're about to be married, so what affects him and his kids affects me as well. I am about to be their step-mom, after all. Of course I'm going to also care about their welfare.

Change of circumstance...wouldn't her moving them across the country to the west coast, and in a sense cutting them off from their dad be a change in circumstance?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Ms Paramour,

With such a terrible open-ended court order, Dad has very little option to enforce visitation.

One quick question though.

If he doesn't see the kids so often, how does he know what's going on?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
lol. We're about to be married, so what affects him and his kids affects me as well. I am about to be their step-mom, after all. Of course I'm going to also care about their welfare.

Change of circumstance...wouldn't her moving them across the country to the west coast, and in a sense cutting them off from their dad be a change in circumstance?


It might have been had Dad done something about it at the time. But almost 6 months down the line?

Not so much.
 

chataine

Junior Member
Ms Paramour,

With such a terrible open-ended court order, Dad has very little option to enforce visitation.

One quick question though.

If he doesn't see the kids so often, how does he know what's going on?
lol, I actually wasn't the paramour in this situation at all...

He talks with his kids on the phone. When the mom is out of the room, they call him "dad" and ask him why he did this-or-that thing their mom said he did. When they do get to visit (only once since their move, but every so often before the move), they tell him a lot more.
 

CJane

Senior Member
The greatest hurdles Dad will face, as I see it:

  1. The amount of time that has passed since the relocation of the children.
  2. The fact that he allowed Mom to gradually 'weed him out' of the children's lives, if not actively than at least passively.
  3. Dad's apparent (to the courts) lack of concern regarding access to the child's medical records.
  4. The fact that Dad has spent so little time with the children up to now. Status quo is generally seen as what's best for the kids and that is with Mom/new husband.
  5. Depending on child's medical issues, the court is going to be LESS likely to order huge changes in kiddo's life/changes in access to medical care.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
The greatest hurdles Dad will face, as I see it:

  1. The amount of time that has passed since the relocation of the children.
  2. The fact that he allowed Mom to gradually 'weed him out' of the children's lives, if not actively than at least passively.
  3. Dad's apparent (to the courts) lack of concern regarding access to the child's medical records.
  4. The fact that Dad has spent so little time with the children up to now. Status quo is generally seen as what's best for the kids and that is with Mom/new husband.
  5. Depending on child's medical issues, the court is going to be LESS likely to order huge changes in kiddo's life/changes in access to medical care.


Agreed.

Plus, the words of a 6 and 8 year old are not going to carry much - if any - weight in court.
 

CJane

Senior Member
Agreed.

Plus, the words of a 6 and 8 year old are not going to carry much - if any - weight in court.
Oh, and I forgot a couple.

  1. Dad entered into an AGREEMENT with Mom for the divorce/custody issues. Which means he AGREED that what was in the best interests of the kids was having the Lying Liar of a Mother be primary custodian.
  2. Custody orders don't come with an "I take it back!" Clause.
 

Antigone*

Senior Member
lol, I actually wasn't the paramour in this situation at all...

He talks with his kids on the phone. When the mom is out of the room, they call him "dad" and ask him why he did this-or-that thing their mom said he did. When they do get to visit (only once since their move, but every so often before the move), they tell him a lot more.
So how many trips has dad made to visit with his kids?
 

chataine

Junior Member
So how many trips has dad made to visit with his kids?
He flew out to pick them up for 5 days over spring break. She wouldn't have allowed anything more. And they live on a military base, so it's not like he can fly out, march up to their house, and tell her he wants to see his kids for the weekend.
 

Antigone*

Senior Member
He flew out to pick them up for 5 days over spring break. She wouldn't have allowed anything more. And they live on a military base, so it's not like he can fly out, march up to their house, and tell her he wants to see his kids for the weekend.
So mom isn't keeping dad from the kids.
 

chataine

Junior Member
The greatest hurdles Dad will face, as I see it:

  1. The amount of time that has passed since the relocation of the children.
  2. The fact that he allowed Mom to gradually 'weed him out' of the children's lives, if not actively than at least passively.
  3. Dad's apparent (to the courts) lack of concern regarding access to the child's medical records.
  4. The fact that Dad has spent so little time with the children up to now. Status quo is generally seen as what's best for the kids and that is with Mom/new husband.
  5. Depending on child's medical issues, the court is going to be LESS likely to order huge changes in kiddo's life/changes in access to medical care.
Thank you so much for your reply.

When she was letting them see their dad less and less, the more he would push to see the kids, the less she would let them have them. They had said from the get-go that they didn't want to get into a messy custody thing, so he attempted to uphold that for as long as possible, but her control over the kids, and how she treats them, is getting unbearable.

He didn't want to prohibit them from moving, as he didn't want to control their lives or keep the new husband from being able to join the army and have income. It's only in the past week that he has learned of her scheduling the surgery in the middle of the time he was supposed to have with them. He's realizing now that she is making all decisions for the kids independent of their father, and is now telling him what will and won't happen (regarding visitation, medical care, etc.).

As for the medical records, he has only had the surgeries for the past year, and none out on the west coast yet, so my fiance has been able to be present for those. (The doctor here in NC has taken care of everything up until this point, and is fully capable of continuing to.) He was told last week by his ex that she wouldn't give him any information regarding the doctor they were now seeing. He wasn't aware that he wasn't listed as a guardian (there or here) until he called this week trying to get information for the doctor he will now be seeing on the west coast.

Edit: He called the doctor in NC, trying to find out where the records had been transferred to, and found out he hadn't been listed as a legal guardian.
 
Last edited:

Antigone*

Senior Member
She feels that that, and maybe a week or two in the summer is sufficient. She also keeps shortening the length of time she deems sufficient.
This is between dad and mom and it really looks like dad has allowed mom to do what she pleases.

Tell dad to seek the advice of a local family law attorney. That is the most you can hope to do for him.
 
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